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Just picked up and started reading the Black Legion Supplement last night. Just wondering if anyone has had success with the supplement on the table? Seems okay with lots of drawbacks and bonuses.

I haven't picked up the codex yet, but I have been theorizing about running squads of 5 chosen with a plasma gun and autocannon in a rhino with a havoc launcher. These are relatively cheap for the volume of fire that they get.

A sorcerer in TDA with a squad of termies and the nova spell+spell familiar is hilarious to deep strike into the middle of the enemy army

 ThatEdGuy wrote:
I haven't picked up the codex yet, but I have been theorizing about running squads of 5 chosen with a plasma gun and autocannon in a rhino with a havoc launcher. These are relatively cheap for the volume of fire that they get.

you can already do that with the regular CSM codex, as troops if you take abby, and they are cheaper without the supplement.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Turock wrote:
Just picked up and started reading the Black Legion Supplement last night. Just wondering if anyone has had success with the supplement on the table? Seems okay with lots of drawbacks and bonuses.

lots of drawbacks.

cant mix artifacts
Must take VotLW on everything.(so you end up with black legion with tons of heldrakes, cultists, and daemon princes)

EW daemon princes are nice though, almost worth taking.

 Winthster wrote:
A sorcerer in TDA with a squad of termies and the nova spell+spell familiar is hilarious to deep strike into the middle of the enemy army

This actually sounds like a really fun thing to do. Might try it out for the laughs.

The only list that I've put together so far was a Chosen Rhino list. 4 squads of Chosen in Rhinos with A Lord +terminators in a LR. Just rush down your opponent with special weapons. However it sounds ineffective and boring.

 Turock wrote:

 Winthster wrote:
A sorcerer in TDA with a squad of termies and the nova spell+spell familiar is hilarious to deep strike into the middle of the enemy army

This actually sounds like a really fun thing to do. Might try it out for the laughs.

The only list that I've put together so far was a Chosen Rhino list. 4 squads of Chosen in Rhinos with A Lord +terminators in a LR. Just rush down your opponent with special weapons. However it sounds ineffective and boring.

having to pay 2ppm for each chosen means you quickly add up points and might as well just take abbodon. 25 chosen will cost you 50 more points in BL than in regular CSM. Abby is expensive, but his warlord trait is nice in half the games and for 215 points he is definitely worth it.

I play with the BL supplement and have enjoyed some success.

I take a CL with MoT, the Spineshiver Blade, Crucible of Lies, Skull of Ker'ngar, melta bombs, jet pack and Sigil of Corruption. I know there is some debate about whether or not a model can actually take more than one artefact, but no one has called me on it and I do discuss it with opponents before we start.

The guy is a tank, he is highly mobile, has a 3+ invulnerable save, hits at I6, rerolls 1s and has eternal warrior. He generally only takes wounds from failed daemon weapon rolls and has survived every game thus far.

I also take 2 squads of Chosen with MoN and 5 flamers each. The deal with them is they are tough scoring units who are almost impossible to charge. I drive them up the board in Rhinos, keep marching them forward until I hit an objective, then park them there until the end of the game. Great for cleaning out ruins then using them for cover.

The Chosen pair very favorably with Noise Marines with sonics enough that I love this part of my army. I put the NMs behind the Chosen and just shoot up anything I can get into range with. The NMs always get a cover save from the intervening unit, while no one gets cover saves from the sonic weapons. That plus IoE makes them a lot more survivable.

I will also take a vanilla Sorcerer and give him the Eye of Night. He's really just there to pop AV14 from anywhere on the board and does a very good job at it. When the right scatters, I can usually do a lot more than just blow up a vehicle when he unleashes his weapon. I try to have him use this early in the game to get first blood.

I round out the list with Obliterators or Predators. There's usually not much to spend after I get the troops, so I focus on something that has range and can reliably punch through armor. I will sometimes opt for bikers and / or spawn to ride with my CL. I like bikers better because they can take the challenges while the CL devastates my opponent's troops. Heldrakes are nice, but they take a lot of shots when there are not that many other units on the board. I may get one or two small squads of cultists if I can afford them.

In terms of drawbacks, at 2000 points my lists are small and there are lots of ways they could fail. Opponents do tend to just move back to stay out of range of my troops; then again, they also tend to run out of places to move after a couple turns. It's very hard to win when I lose the Chosen, but (thankfully) the NMs tend to be perceived as the bigger threat and take more of the shots. While I haven't gotten tabled, I have gotten to the point where it's only my CL left on the board. There's very little room for AA in lists like this, but then again I don't really need to worry about most of it because the troops themselves are pretty tough.

There's also a question about the mechanics of the game. This army can be fun, but not always. Having 4 Rhinos on the board means I spend a lot of time trying to hide them after they deliver their units, and I don't like sinking 120+ points into something that doesn't do much after delivery. I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to maximize VPs, to the point where I have my CL attacking smaller and weaker units just to get the points before he rushes into the enemy deployment zone the last turn. The sorcerer is typically poor protection for the backfield and I hate it when some unit comes out of reserve in the 5th round, kills him and gets linebreaker.

On the plus side: this army eats drop pod and deep strike armies, extra flamers plus noise marines in close quarters is very hard to deal with. I was able to table a SW army that dropped a bunch of Long Fangs into my midst. My CL gets a lot of boons and a lot of VPs - it's not unusual for me to get linebreaker, slay the warlord and 2 VPs for wiping out units just with him. When something does try to charge the Chosen, it's fun to lay down 5 flamer templates on overwatch. This tends to wipe out whatever is charging it. The VotLW is not as bad as people think, the improved leadership has made a difference for me in a couple of games.

But the other thing about this army is opponents tend to underestimate it. I mean, it's like they think they are just going to shoot up my guys from a distance and win. They pour a ton of shots into the CL and the NMs while the Chosen and anything else tends to become secondary targets.

 techsoldaten wrote:
I play with the BL supplement and have enjoyed some success.

I take a CL with MoT, the Spineshiver Blade, Crucible of Lies, Skull of Ker'ngar, melta bombs, jet pack and Sigil of Corruption. I know there is some debate about whether or not a model can actually take more than one artefact, but no one has called me on it and I do discuss it with opponents before we start.

That dude does sound like a beatstick I've been toying with the idea of a Nurgle Marked Champ with Palaquin, Spineshiver Blade, Skull, Powerfist, and Sigil
That gives me a guy with 5 wounds, toughness 5, initiative 6, 4++. He is slow though your guy sounds like he can be more of threat.

Yeah, that guy sounds tough. Let me know how he turns out.

I find I like the mobility and the invulnerability more than the toughness, but that's just me. On the plus side, you could also take plague marines as troops, who are a little easier to manage than the NMs. I don't like having to depend on their IoE for added survivability.

 techsoldaten wrote:
I play with the BL supplement and have enjoyed some success.

I take a CL with MoT, the Spineshiver Blade, Crucible of Lies, Skull of Ker'ngar, melta bombs, jet pack and Sigil of Corruption. I know there is some debate about whether or not a model can actually take more than one artefact, but no one has called me on it and I do discuss it with opponents before we start.

The guy is a tank, he is highly mobile, has a 3+ invulnerable save, hits at I6, rerolls 1s and has eternal warrior. He generally only takes wounds from failed daemon weapon rolls and has survived every game thus far.

I also take 2 squads of Chosen with MoN and 5 flamers each. The deal with them is they are tough scoring units who are almost impossible to charge. I drive them up the board in Rhinos, keep marching them forward until I hit an objective, then park them there until the end of the game. Great for cleaning out ruins then using them for cover.

The Chosen pair very favorably with Noise Marines with sonics enough that I love this part of my army. I put the NMs behind the Chosen and just shoot up anything I can get into range with. The NMs always get a cover save from the intervening unit, while no one gets cover saves from the sonic weapons. That plus IoE makes them a lot more survivable.

I will also take a vanilla Sorcerer and give him the Eye of Night. He's really just there to pop AV14 from anywhere on the board and does a very good job at it. When the right scatters, I can usually do a lot more than just blow up a vehicle when he unleashes his weapon. I try to have him use this early in the game to get first blood.

I round out the list with Obliterators or Predators. There's usually not much to spend after I get the troops, so I focus on something that has range and can reliably punch through armor. I will sometimes opt for bikers and / or spawn to ride with my CL. I like bikers better because they can take the challenges while the CL devastates my opponent's troops. Heldrakes are nice, but they take a lot of shots when there are not that many other units on the board. I may get one or two small squads of cultists if I can afford them.

In terms of drawbacks, at 2000 points my lists are small and there are lots of ways they could fail. Opponents do tend to just move back to stay out of range of my troops; then again, they also tend to run out of places to move after a couple turns. It's very hard to win when I lose the Chosen, but (thankfully) the NMs tend to be perceived as the bigger threat and take more of the shots. While I haven't gotten tabled, I have gotten to the point where it's only my CL left on the board. There's very little room for AA in lists like this, but then again I don't really need to worry about most of it because the troops themselves are pretty tough.

There's also a question about the mechanics of the game. This army can be fun, but not always. Having 4 Rhinos on the board means I spend a lot of time trying to hide them after they deliver their units, and I don't like sinking 120+ points into something that doesn't do much after delivery. I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to maximize VPs, to the point where I have my CL attacking smaller and weaker units just to get the points before he rushes into the enemy deployment zone the last turn. The sorcerer is typically poor protection for the backfield and I hate it when some unit comes out of reserve in the 5th round, kills him and gets linebreaker.

On the plus side: this army eats drop pod and deep strike armies, extra flamers plus noise marines in close quarters is very hard to deal with. I was able to table a SW army that dropped a bunch of Long Fangs into my midst. My CL gets a lot of boons and a lot of VPs - it's not unusual for me to get linebreaker, slay the warlord and 2 VPs for wiping out units just with him. When something does try to charge the Chosen, it's fun to lay down 5 flamer templates on overwatch. This tends to wipe out whatever is charging it. The VotLW is not as bad as people think, the improved leadership has made a difference for me in a couple of games.

But the other thing about this army is opponents tend to underestimate it. I mean, it's like they think they are just going to shoot up my guys from a distance and win. They pour a ton of shots into the CL and the NMs while the Chosen and anything else tends to become secondary targets.

.. this lord is just a silly man..

Forgot to mention the Soul Stealer warlord trait. When he gets that, all his melee attacks cause instant death on a roll of 6. He gets 5 - 10 chances to do that on the charge, more against Space Marines.