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 Tamwulf wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Pretty much fusion blasters. Hammerhead is lacking some buffs to be viable at tank busting (or too expensive when he gets it) and right novacharged IA doesnt really help. It has crazy odds with a buffmander giving him tankhunter but i still dont like it becausse its a single shot.

Ordnance and Tank Hunter work together. Ordnance = roll 2 dice, take highest ... tankhunter = reroll attempts to pen .... so now you reroll 2 dice take the highest.

Only other means i know of that works is an HBC riptide with buffmander. Nova charged HBC with buffmander wrecks vehicles - just keep something nearby to benefit from him should the nova fail in the movement phase.

The HBC Riptide- you're talking about a Farsight Enclave Riptide with the Earth Caste Pilot Array? Adding a Buffmander means you're running dual force org or ally with Tau, right?

Either run Tau, or FE with allied Tau. The ECPA on an HBC Riptides is brutal, but if you are willing to risk failing Nova's the stock HBC Riptide can do pretty well.

For instance, a Nova Charged HBC with allied BuffCommander deals an average of 2.7 Pens on AV12 without Markerlight Support. 3.5 Pens with Markerlight Support. It can effectively wreck a Wave Serpent a Turn thanks to Tank Hunter.

Without, it can still be effective, but it is far from an Anti AV12/13/14 solution dealing 1 Pen to AV12. The HBC is better with a VT for AA, it lacks the AP punch to drop heavier targets without a Buffmander for Tank Hunter.

Fusion Suits are still the most viable way of taking out Armor, I DS two with a Twinlinked Fusion Blaster/Fusion Blaster. Its the best High AV option by var. Even Longstrike is lacking due to only having a single Shot.

Nova Charging an IA Riptide really isn't an effective threat. The Nova is unreliable and get Hot can ruin your chances. Though, I have used the Nova Charged IA with Buffmander to hit multiple DE vehicles in one shot, works great if though deployment and Jet Pack moves you can create a traffic jam.

No, the HBC is the stock gun for the normal riptide. Buffmander is a normal tau thing. i dont even have the FE book yet.

Also, the HBC is an HP stripper. Without the nova it falls back on killing light vehicles or infantry but if it novas it can reliably take out landraiders a turn with buffmander help. Its not trying to pen AV13/14, its trying to wreck it with 12 S6 Rending shots.

This is because 12 shots with reroll hits and tankhunter. Every rending on a D2+ is a glance. I have taken land raiders from full to dead with this thing multiple times. And because i have a buffmander on it i put VT on it too for AA purposes, but not interceptor because its drastically weaker without buffmander. This thing is nasty with a buffmander. Only drawback is it IS expensive and without nova is pointless, so i run something nearby for the buffmander to jump to in case he fails it at the START of a movement phase (giving me time to jump groups)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
No, the HBC is the stock gun for the normal riptide. Buffmander is a normal tau thing. i dont even have the FE book yet.

Also, the HBC is an HP stripper. Without the nova it falls back on killing light vehicles or infantry but if it novas it can reliably take out landraiders a turn with buffmander help. Its not trying to pen AV13/14, its trying to wreck it with 12 S6 Rending shots.

This is because 12 shots with reroll hits and tankhunter. Every rending on a D2+ is a glance. I have taken land raiders from full to dead with this thing multiple times. And because i have a buffmander on it i put VT on it too for AA purposes, but not interceptor because its drastically weaker without buffmander. This thing is nasty with a buffmander. Only drawback is it IS expensive and without nova is pointless, so i run something nearby for the buffmander to jump to in case he fails it at the START of a movement phase (giving me time to jump groups)

It takes on average two turns to strip the HP off of a Land Raider. Also, you need a 2 on a D3 to Glance, and a 3 on a D3 to Pen. ~1,8HP/Turn. 2.4HP/Turn with Markerlight Support.

Vs AV13 it averages 2.7-3.5 HP/Turn which is much much better and wrecks AV13 easily.

Ya if the HBC could take out a LR a turn with any sense of reliability my single Crisis Suits wouldn't need their magnetized Fusion Blasters! They'd be all Missile Pods!!! haha

I run fusion everywhere. I've always got two Skyrays and two broadsides so I have SMS lots of places too!

Skyfire fusion weaponry, to me, seems highly underrated. As Tau, you have a few spare markerlights in most armies - that means you don't have to pay the earth for redundancy (multiple weapons or twin-linked) to get fusion suits for ground targets. I've found two flamer + fusion suits amazing.

Tbh even though a the Skyfire support system is expensive; I've got a IA/Fusion riptide with EWO & Skyfire, 2 skyrays and a dual MP suit with skyfire. Even if my meta is flyer heavy, I am only spending 40pts on dedicated AA weaponary (unlike a C:SM Stalker, which, against ground targets snap fires, all for 75pts!)

Great thing in thye new codex: no need for Broadsides if ou dont want em. Dont need Riptides if you dont want em. you can play so many different lists. fun.

 Jancoran wrote:
Great thing in thye new codex: no need for Broadsides if ou dont want em. Dont need Riptides if you dont want em. you can play so many different lists. fun.

Agreed! This is one of the reasons I love Tau so much. You can be just as competitive (to a degree depending on your opponents) and run almost anything you want and still rock!

I just won a recent semi-competitive event 1st place and I didn't run a single RipTide. My friends were surprised I wasn't bringing any. Crisis Suits, Broadsides and Skyrays FTW



Back on topic... if I want to be able to kill armor save 2+ stuff/high AV vehicles I guess the 2x Fusion Blaster Crisis Suits are the answer based on what most of you guys said... I struggle a lot with AV13/14 so I think this would cover my bases pretty well and make my TAC list more well rounded. Have you guys had better luck running them in singles with 2x Fusion Blasters or squads of 2x with 2x Fusion Blasters each? I can see the squad of 2x making better use of the Marker Lights once I've got them on a Land Raider or something...

My standard Crisis configuration would come down to:
2X optimised suits - for example, 2 suits with 2 Plasma rifles each.
1X Fusion Suit - 2 Fusion blasters, Target lock.
Throw in drones as necessary.

My Crisis team has 3 TL Fusion and 3 flamers in it with one shield drone. It never fails to find usefulness in any fight and they tend to do more than their share of damage. Good times.

What about thoughts on EWO on RipTides? Burst or IA loadouts?

I know it's just 5 pts but correct me if I'm wrong, you are firing your interceptor guns at BS1 right? So you still need 6's to hit. Then you can't fire that gun during your next shooting phase. Or am I doing this wrong and you should be firing it at your RipTides regular BS?

If you are firing at regular BS I can see how it'd be awesome for 5pts but I'm unclear on this...and no direct access to the rulebook right now.

Interceptor for most of Tau is at BS3. You don't get any buffs in interceptor unless its from psykers.

Interceptor is basically an early shooting phase for any model/gun with interceptor, and prevents that gun from shooting in your following shooting phase. Outside that, its the same thing. Unless the rule they are benefiting from says "Only this phase" or in the case of buffmander "Does not work in interceptor/overwatch shooting" then any rules are still applied. I believe all the Tau once-a-game warlord buffs are entire turns, so they still apply. Riptide nova charges are there until the begining of your movement phase, which you declare to charge or not again. Therefore the supergun if you took it is still there and you fire it at BS3.

I always take EWO on IA riptides because if someone deepstrikes i got a pi plate waiting for that bubble of flesh to land. People nark on BS3 blasts but i really dont see a difference until your BS is ridiculous (5+) since me personally i either bullseye or boxcars off lol.

 syypher wrote:
What about thoughts on EWO on RipTides? Burst or IA loadouts?

I know it's just 5 pts but correct me if I'm wrong, you are firing your interceptor guns at BS1 right? So you still need 6's to hit. Then you can't fire that gun during your next shooting phase. Or am I doing this wrong and you should be firing it at your RipTides regular BS?

If you are firing at regular BS I can see how it'd be awesome for 5pts but I'm unclear on this...and no direct access to the rulebook right now.

I use the Ion Cannon on Riptides and last night, i bombed two different Dominion squads silly with Early Warning Override. I have reamed Blood Angels so often it hurts them to even think about Deep Striking.

In the grand schema, both Riptides died in the end (what can ya do? Exorcists). But before they did, they did huge chunks of damage when and where it mattered most. No markerligght help kinda hurts but hey, nothing thats 5 points is perfect!

That's why I don't deep strike. And don't recommend anyone else do it, either.

Martel732 wrote:
That's why I don't deep strike. And don't recommend anyone else do it, either.

Hehehe. I deep strike like a mad man. I outflank like a madder man. too much fun not to. But when i see them Riptides, i think two or three times about it first. then i do it anyways, so close to their units that they take a real risk trying it on me. I'd rather risk a mishap than risk that bomb landing on target. Proximity to friendlies is the only cure if you're dead set on deep striking,. pro tip.

Though if you are not a risk taker , ignore this and just start on the board. I guess.

people deepstrike all the time even when it isnt a smart idea. Riptides with IA have table-range so they can intercept almost anything, spacing determines if you do or not against normal reinforcements though.

ive had AV11/12 things come in from the back and i just sniped it out with the regular S7 shots lol.

Buffmander can only twin link and ignore cover in the shooting phase right? So there will be times when baiting with a reserve unit means the riptide will be less effective with interceptor and unable to fire next turn.

This is true, but in most cases it isnt needed for interceptor. Tank and monster hunter remain, dont forget that, since that one is a "Pick this at this point" and it does not say its only that phase.

Its not always ideal, but 9/10 of the time my riptide intercepts when he can. Fliers or crap throwaway unit are usually once i dont - fliers because i need support if i dont have VT on and why would i pi plate a group of grots when i got hordes of boyz infront of me still lol

Dealing with other RipTides, Dreadknights, and other things that are T6+ that have 2+/5++

I played an Eldar friend yesterday and he told me my list would be weak against 2+/5++ models because I don't have very much AP2 other than RipTides IA and their Fusion guns.

I'm trying to make a well-rounded take all comers list and I've got air covered pretty well and weight of fire can usually handle a lot of my other issues including AV12/13. I've recently equipped Fusion guns on my RipTides for the anti-AV14 when needed and have 1x dual fusion Crisis Suit.

Other than that 2+/5++ models like Dreadknight Spam or 3-4 RipTides would give me a really hard time... any thoughts on how to supplement a Tau army to deal with these without going out of the Tau or Farsight books to do it? I dont want to change my list too drastically since its very well rounded right now.

My list is something like:
Buffmander
3x Crisis Suit 2x MP each, target lock + 6 Marker Drones (Buffmander here)
0-3 RipTides IA+Fusions EWO
3x Broadsides HYM+SMS, target lock, 0-6 Missile Drones
1-3 Kroot+Hound Squads
1-2 Skyrays
Sprinkle Flamer/Fusion/Missile Pod Troop Crisis Suits to max points

Aside from riptides or dreadknights what else is there people actually use thats an MC with 2+/5++ or better?

I never see swarmlords or walking tyrants with bonus armor because theyre so damn slow i just dakka them to death before they get to me lol.

But, large kroot bubbles will cause any high toughness monster an issue since thats a ton of sniper shots.

So in the end weight of fire mostly?

Unfortunately yes. i kinda hate that the best solution for most situations is more dakka.

The reason i feel theres so much AP2 is not in fear of terminator spam, but to deal with big things. Tau especially can field a TON of S6 AP2 shots and they would make short work of any 2+ T6 creature. I honestly wish 2+ armor was rare as hell and AP1/2 weapons were rare as hell, but it would take too big of a balance shift to do that

I've always asserted that plasma should be AP 3.

I like dual plasma suits but I'm just not sure where to fit them in my army >_< seems like a lot of point investment to shove them in a list.

It's 53 points for a 1x dual plasma rifle Crisis Suit in the enclave book >_> Relative to other things we can take and other armies that can take equivalent firepower in a similar shell, isn't that a bit expensive?

Martel732 wrote:
I've always asserted that plasma should be AP 3.

From a balance point of view, I'd agree (if they dropped in points slightly).
From a fluff/science perspective, gonna have to say flat out no I'm afraid.

Thoughts on giving Buffmanders Stimulant Injectors (FNP5+)?

I think they are expensive enough to warrant it but they usually have a lot of stuff to Look Out Sir to as well...I'm usually shrugging off harder to save shots to some drones...



Also: If you have the points, models and FoC slots open... what do you think would be a better all around build:
3x Broadsides + 6x Missile Drones
VS
2x squads of 2x Broadsides + 4x Missile Drones each squad

I know the second option is clearly more firepower and bodies but for sake of target priority I've been heavily debating splitting my 3x man Broadside Squad up (HYMP+SMS+TargetLock) into 2x squads of 2x Broadsides with the same loadouts. Big reason I want to do this is give my opponent harder target priority since now there is a duplicate squad of Broadsides AND now if 1 runs off the field because of their less than stellar LD then I don't lose my entire squad of firepower...I'd still have 2x more Broadsides...

It may not be an equivalent exchange because of 1 more Broad and 2x more drones but just increasing the limit and target saturation is my main goal here. When I have 1 squad of Broadsides on the table it makes it "fairly easy" to wipe out one of my primary squads were all my firepower is coming from. I'm sure a lot of you fellow Tau players can relate.

Tactical_Genius wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I've always asserted that plasma should be AP 3.

From a balance point of view, I'd agree (if they dropped in points slightly).
From a fluff/science perspective, gonna have to say flat out no I'm afraid.

I really don't give a feth about their fluff or psuedo-science. It's all about the game balance to me.

Or just get rid of plasma.

Martel732 wrote:

I really don't give a feth about their fluff or psuedo-science. It's all about the game balance to me.

Not sure 40k is the right game for you then
If they changed its role somewhat so that an AP2 weapon wasn't as commonplace, and add a new AP3 gun, it'd be ok. But desiring something that goes against fluff just won't happen with GW... If you want perfect balance you'd be better off with other systems

Farsight 165pts
O'Vesa 305pts
Enclave Commander w/ Fusion Blade, Talisman, Warscaper drone, drone controller, Target Lock, and 2x gun drones 217pts
Standard Tau Commander w/ MSS, C&C Node, Puretide Chip, Vectored Retro Thrusters., and 2 gun drones 164 pts

XV8 team #1 256pts
Shas'Vre w/ 2x Plasma Guns and target lock
Shas'ui w/ 2x fusion guns and target lock
Shas'ui w/ plasma gun, fusion gun, and target lock
6x gun drones

What do you guys think of this unit? I attach all 4 ICs to the Crisis Team, I like it played it twice and won easily both times.

40k has a lot of unfluffy changes to balance the game already. Technically per fluff a single marine is tougher than a tank to take down, but in game a little fist bump from a Tau firewarrior can kill one lol