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Hi many say that Chaos suck very hard . But I think they can be very can competitive if you have this or some in your army. .

3 Heldrakes.

Plauge marines.

Some Obliterators.

Chaos Lord with mark of nurgle.

Daemon prince.

Spawn.

Nurgle Bikes.

Plauge Zombies.

Noise marines.

THE REST IS CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wonder why people say Chaos space marines suck. Is it becuse they take wrong units???


What do you think guys.

Or it might be because those are the only units in the dex that can make it competitive? You also forgot to specify "Daemon Prince with Daemon Weapon"

The Nurgle guys with Feel no Pain are totally competitive.

Actually anything with FnP is tough to break down.

Chaos lord with MoN and bike, more like.

This sums up the entire dex, and supplement...

Basically, nothing matters except taking Drakes + Nurgle Marines with 1-2 squads of Noise Marines.

The only nicer thing in the dex than that is our Cheap Tri-Las Preds and our ability to throw spikes on anything Imperial and calling it something else... Drop Pod = Dread Claw (I put spikes on it, shut-yer-trap!)

Mr.Blue wrote:
Hi many say that Chaos suck very hard . But I think they can be very can competitive if you have this or some in your army. .

3 Heldrakes.

Plauge marines.

Some Obliterators.

Chaos Lord with mark of nurgle.

Daemon prince.

Spawn.

Nurgle Bikes.

Plauge Zombies.

Noise marines.

THE REST IS CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wonder why people say Chaos space marines suck. Is it becuse they take wrong units???


What do you think guys.

I find 2 heldrakes more competitive than 3

Daemon princes arent competitive

Even Noise Marines arent that compettive

I find 2 heldrakes more competitive than 3

Daemon princes arent competitive

Even Noise Marines arent that compettive

It really depends on your local meta...

I have seen game groups play with literally no cover on the board, simply open boards with sand and or grass... No hills, no buildings, no trees...

To weed out units with cover, Noise Marines are amazing... From my personal experience anyways... in 1500-2k games I have either 2x5 man squads or 1x10 man with FNP for range finding and cover nuking.

range finding

aren't you allowed to pre-measure?

20 Noise Marines with an Icon in cover, nearly impossible to shift and are capable of wrecking hell on any marine within 24 inches.

 Largeblastmarker wrote:

range finding

aren't you allowed to pre-measure?

Yes.

My mistake for not explaining lol

I use Noise Marines to "Find" my opponents hiding in cover, usually allowing myself first shot on them with blast masters, forcing them to book it away from my 48" buffer zone

Marine players for example, parking Devs in a forest thinking the cover will save them
Or those pesky Tau Fire Warriors hiding in those Ruins.... "I FOUND YOU!" - *Sonic waves~~~~~~~~~~~~~ X_x <---- Space Fish*

welshhoppo wrote:
20 Noise Marines with an Icon in cover, nearly impossible to shift and are capable of wrecking hell on any marine within 24 inches.

At 500 points it would want to. You can almost get 3 heldrakes for that, pretty sure they'd wreck marines better.

The primary problem with CSM is that their codex is codex: helldrake.

Are you asking do Chaos Marines work well or.whether it is a one-click-and-win codex???

Any codex is competitive, just depends on how you use them. Apparently, heldrakes are a necessity, even though I know of two local players who refuse to use heldrakes and do well.

Move up in the world and experience a challenge: build a no-heldrake CSM army.

Took me a while to find a combination that worked with CSM, cant really go half arsed with them, my first few games i just got destroyed.

Steffo wrote:
Took me a while to find a combination that worked with CSM, cant really go half arsed with them, my first few games i just got destroyed.

This is how most of us build an army. Unless you copy a champion list and figure out how they used it, making your own lists works best.

given that most armies average about 13 units, it's pretty hard for me to use the word "only" when describing these things he listed as being good in a codex, especially when two or three of the same thing are taking up those 13 slots.

So I guess what I am getting at is: the tools are there. EVERY codex has units that are underused. My blog is dedicated to tactica, lists and breakdowns on such things. And like most things that get debated, there is a LOT of hyperbole surrounding how good AND how bad some of them are.

Just play better. half the problems people have would go away if they did. Lists cant do all the work for ya guys.

 Jancoran wrote:
So I guess what I am getting at is: the tools are there.

The point we're getting at, is that even though those tools are there - they're broken. Broken tools aren't useful to anyone, even if they still look nice.

 Jancoran wrote:

Just play better. half the problems people have would go away if they did. Lists cant do all the work for ya guys.

Exactly my point. Tailoring a list to tour play style will serve you better than someone's one-click "competitive" list.

I made the beneath - I've pretty much fallen on the NM's - I didn't set out to get them.
I see this list as 'competitive' in the current internet usage of the term
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/555616.page

I don't think it'll be anywhere near as much fun as taking slaanesh with demons allies and running round with 15 grimoired possessed and a psyker buffing them. (I did that in game and got 2 slaanesh powers - The -1ws and -1bs and the D3 squad buff power from the chaos dex AND enfeeble)

I also have more fun with my chaos than my eldar - they're just easier to play.

I find with eldar your army depends on your opponant knowing your rules and tricks. If they know them, they win. If they don't, you win.
With chaos, I can just have a punch up

Chaos marines as a whole is a VERY competitive army. Proper use of your marine squads and cultists is very powerful indeed.

 Timmy149 wrote:
Chaos marines as a whole is a VERY competitive army. Proper use of your marine squads and cultists is very powerful indeed.

Funny how no one says "proper use of your 1ksons or warpsmith is very powerful".

Actually, a Warpsmith with some dinobots and a Helbrute can put out a mean punch, seeing as he can go around fixing them up.

welshhoppo wrote:
20 Noise Marines with an Icon in cover, nearly impossible to shift and are capable of wrecking hell on any marine within 24 inches.

The only thing noise marines have that can hurt marines are the blastmasters, and even 20 can only have 2 of them.

20 marines in cover is actually pretty easy to shift with these heldrakes, Tau, and Eldar out there.


I agree Noise Marines are ok, but the thing they are good at (AP3 ignores cover) is something the burning brand and heldrakes already do for CSM.

and even 20 can only have 2 of them.

10 can have 2. 2 Squads of 10 can have 4.

1 available regardless of squad size, with an additional available at 10 or more members.

Was FAQ'd ages ago,

the helldrake hate seems to be more and more misplaced.... I mean don't get me wrong they're good but as anyone who knows how to use the rules will tell you, hardly win the game alone. Undivided seems to be the way to go again (save for specific situations such as oblits) and I have a hard time seeing any HQ we can field as competitive save for Huron who has been rising in play. As for cult choices, they all have a fairly lackluster look to them, despite the always present love for Nurgle heh. My suggestion goes to less shiny toys and less marks across the board, especially in troops.

chaos is very competitive if you use ur army well,
another reason why they are quite popular and always have been

Every army does well when played properly. That's why terms like compwtitive and viable are stupid and trite. In our local gaming circle, a Tyranids player has dominated our tournaments for a while now, even though Nids are "low-tier". Anything works well when you know how to use it properly.

They are a a strong and semi-competitive choice compared to many lists, but will ultimately fall short against the tournament WAAC lists. This was shown at NOVA, and Heldrake/Plague Marine spam isn't near enough to deal with the Riptide/Missileside spam, Wave Serpent Spam, or MC Spam you see winning tournaments.

Mistake


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Every army does well when played properly. That's why terms like compwtitive and viable are stupid and trite. In our local gaming circle, a Tyranids player has dominated our tournaments for a while now, even though Nids are "low-tier". Anything works well when you know how to use it properly.

That's not exactly right. Given equal skill, an Eldar player will beat an Ork player say 700 out of 1000 times. Maybe more often. There are real difference between the codices. Quit pretending there aren't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bloodecho wrote:
the helldrake hate seems to be more and more misplaced.... I mean don't get me wrong they're good but as anyone who knows how to use the rules will tell you, hardly win the game alone. Undivided seems to be the way to go again (save for specific situations such as oblits) and I have a hard time seeing any HQ we can field as competitive save for Huron who has been rising in play. As for cult choices, they all have a fairly lackluster look to them, despite the always present love for Nurgle heh. My suggestion goes to less shiny toys and less marks across the board, especially in troops.

Helldrakes can win the game pretty easily by roasting all opposing troops. The helldrake requires significant resources to hedge against. It is still single-handedly making some list genres unusable.

Also remeber, thousand Sons are actually pretty good, bit pricey, but one of the better elites