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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/05 16:07:39
Subject: Re:Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Preacher of the Emperor
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Lord Krungharr wrote:Puppet Master doesn't cause Wounds does it? If it does not cause Wounds, then the power would not benefit from Precision Shots, as the Precision just permits the firing player to allocate the Wound/Wounds as he/she wants.
All psychic Witchfires (other than the ones with blast or template) count as firing an assault weapon, therefore MUST roll To Hit. They do not roll To Hits (plural) unless they have multiple shots described in their power rules. The ones with no numbers of shots listed still roll To Hit, meaning a singular roll To Hit.
So explain which takes precedence: focused witchfire for hemorrhage or precision shot for hemorrhage?
And how many dice do you roll for puppet master to hit? Without a profile, there is no actual rule telling you how many to roll. RAW is broken and RAI is unclear.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/05 17:37:31
Subject: Re:Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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"A witchfire power must roll To Hit, unless it is a Blast or Large Blast, in which case it scatters as normal, or is a Template weapon, which hits automatically."
As far as Puppet Master rolling high but getting a precision shot, goes, it seems like it work like this:
1. Choose target model
2. Psychic test
3. Randomly determine next target model
4. Deny the Witch rolls
5. Roll to hit (get a 6)
6. Allocate hit to any model in unit.
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/05 19:15:06
Subject: Re:Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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PrinceRaven wrote:"A witchfire power must roll To Hit, unless it is a Blast or Large Blast, in which case it scatters as normal, or is a Template weapon, which hits automatically."
As far as Puppet Master rolling high but getting a precision shot, goes, it seems like it work like this:
1. Choose target model
2. Psychic test
3. Randomly determine next target model
4. Deny the Witch rolls
5. Roll to hit (get a 6)
6. Allocate hit to any model in unit.
What rule tells you how many dice you need to roll for Step 5? Page and Graph please.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/05 19:40:46
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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P. 50, Number of Shots.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/05 20:16:13
Subject: Re:Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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PrinceRaven wrote:"A witchfire power must roll To Hit, unless it is a Blast or Large Blast, in which case it scatters as normal, or is a Template weapon, which hits automatically."
As far as Puppet Master rolling high but getting a precision shot, goes, it seems like it work like this:
1. Choose target model
2. Psychic test
3. Randomly determine next target model
4. Deny the Witch rolls
5. Roll to hit (get a 6)
6. Allocate hit to any model in unit.
Puppet master does not allocate wounds, therefore your #6 is incorrect.
What rule tells you how many dice you need to roll for Step 5? Page and Graph please.
This has been covered already multiple times. You can debate the answer, but just repeating the question does nothing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/05 22:06:09
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Page 51, Assault Weapons. MOre specific. Try again,
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/05 22:14:16
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Does not apply. Pg 13 if any would apply.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 02:58:33
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Let me be more specific, since you did not understand my question: Witchfires are treated as assault weapons, Assault weapons have a profile. Where can I find the profile that says Puppet Master is Assault 1, as you are claiming. Page and Graph please.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/06 02:58:43
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 04:22:24
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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The Hive Mind
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How does page 51 Assault Weapons not apply when firing an Assault weapons?
Please explain this revelation.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 07:09:10
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Which of these seem more reasonable to you:
1) My assault weapon* lacks a number of shots, maybe I should look at generic rule for number of shots** that solves the problem.
2) My assault weapon lacks number of shots, therefore it automatically hits.
*) Which witchfires really even aren't, they're merely fired as one.
**) Which probably is in the book for a reason. Most weapons have profiles and number of shots listed, but if you could not revert to the generic rule if for some reason the profile is missing, the generic rule would be serve no purpose.
Also, I'm still waiting for your rule quote that allows you to skip rolling to hit part with witchfires. And as you cannot do so, it seems you have advocated HYWPI without stating so from beginning of this thread. Maybe you should get out of this thread if you cannot follow the tenets...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 07:13:29
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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And you have a generic rule that says something to the effect of [Unless otherwise stated all assault weapons fire one shot]?
If so could you quote it for us?
P.S. mind answering my question in my previous post?
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 07:31:30
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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DeathReaper wrote:And you have a generic rule that says something to the effect of [Unless otherwise stated all assault weapons fire one shot]?
No, but we have generic rule saying that if a shooting weapon has multiple shots, it is stated. So if it is not stated, it has to have one (unless you're next claiming that you cannot know as the rules fail to mention that the number of shots must be a natural number, and could in fact be 0.87 shots.)
Witchfires are treated as assault weapons, Assault weapons have a profile.
No, they're fired as assault weapons.
Where can I find the profile that says Puppet Master is Assault 1, as you are claiming.
I'm not claiming that. It is a shooting attack with unspecified profile, thus you default to generic rules for shooting weapons, which handily clear the issue. Almost like if they meant it to work this way!
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/06 07:36:12
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 08:44:35
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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DeathReaper wrote:And you have a generic rule that says something to the effect of [Unless otherwise stated all assault weapons fire one shot]?
If so could you quote it for us?
P.S. mind answering my question in my previous post?
Its on page 13.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 13:52:01
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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Has no one brought up the difference in it not being an assault weapon, but that using only counts as firing an assault weapon? It is a pretty big difference. Firing an assault weapon gives you certain capabilities and denials(well, no real denials aside from not being able to fire another weapon without other rules in place). Being an assault weapon has a weapon profile and gives the number of shots that you have to roll to hit with.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/06 13:52:11
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 14:04:59
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard
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Kommissar Kel wrote:Has no one brought up the difference in it not being an assault weapon, but that using only counts as firing an assault weapon?
It is a pretty big difference.
Firing an assault weapon gives you certain capabilities and denials(well, no real denials aside from not being able to fire another weapon without other rules in place).
Being an assault weapon has a weapon profile and gives the number of shots that you have to roll to hit with.
It wasn't dealt with. We just got all shooting attacks must have a weapons profile.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 14:11:36
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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The Hive Mind
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Kommissar Kel wrote:Has no one brought up the difference in it not being an assault weapon, but that using only counts as firing an assault weapon?
It is a pretty big difference.
Firing an assault weapon gives you certain capabilities and denials(well, no real denials aside from not being able to fire another weapon without other rules in place).
Being an assault weapon has a weapon profile and gives the number of shots that you have to roll to hit with.
When firing an assault weapon, how many dice do you roll? How do you determine this information? Automatically Appended Next Post: liturgies of blood wrote: Kommissar Kel wrote:Has no one brought up the difference in it not being an assault weapon, but that using only counts as firing an assault weapon?
It is a pretty big difference.
Firing an assault weapon gives you certain capabilities and denials(well, no real denials aside from not being able to fire another weapon without other rules in place).
Being an assault weapon has a weapon profile and gives the number of shots that you have to roll to hit with.
It wasn't dealt with. We just got all shooting attacks must have a weapons profile.
rigeld2 wrote:Fragile wrote:Your stuck on psychic powers being Assault weapons. They are not. Manifesting a witchfire counts as FIRING an assault weapon. That means you can declare a charge, etc.
Please explain how many dice you roll for a power that has Assault 4 listed in its profile. Do so without ever referencing page 51.
It was, you (obviously) chose to ignore it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/06 14:13:13
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 14:20:40
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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P. 50, 'Number of Shots' tells you how number of shots can be determined for any shooting weapon, assault or otherwise. How is this so difficult?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 14:22:52
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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The Hive Mind
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Because page 51 is more specific.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 14:31:03
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Crimson, can we find some specific instances here where GW ha had to clarify how many times shots are fired by witchfire powers without specific profiles or clarification on how many shots?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 14:31:19
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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So fething what? It obviously do not have sufficient information without p. 50. Why you think 'Number of Shots' rule even is there, if not exactly to address a situation like this? Automatically Appended Next Post: WarOne wrote:Crimson, can we find some specific instances here where GW ha had to clarify how many times shots are fired by witchfire powers without specific profiles or clarification on how many shots?
No, because before this 'problem' was invented in this thread, no one had any difficulty with figuring out how many dice to roll.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/06 14:32:37
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 14:35:51
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Do you know if any of the FAQs have clarity on the subject more precisely?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 14:41:15
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard
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WarOne wrote:Do you know if any of the FAQs have clarity on the subject more precisely?
No they don't. The only example brought up on the "doesn't need to roll" side is the SW powers that have been FAQ'd not to roll to hit ( JOTWW) and to apply a secondary effect even if it doesn't hit (MH) both of which are not analogous.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 14:48:38
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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liturgies of blood wrote: WarOne wrote:Do you know if any of the FAQs have clarity on the subject more precisely?
No they don't. The only example brought up on the "doesn't need to roll" side is the SW powers that have been FAQ'd not to roll to hit ( JOTWW) and to apply a secondary effect even if it doesn't hit (MH) both of which are not analogous.
Yep, especially as those are 5E powers.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 14:52:40
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Just got clarity as well, how does 5th edition rule on their final form explain how to resolve psychic powers. Perhaps GW assumed rules between editions would be understood rarer than explicitly explained?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 15:14:22
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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The Hive Mind
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Crimson wrote:
So fething what? It obviously do not have sufficient information without p. 50. Why you think 'Number of Shots' rule even is there, if not exactly to address a situation like this?
So because the rule is more specific it shouldn't apply?
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 15:14:34
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard
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They were mostly kept consistent with their 5th resolution.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 15:21:59
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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rigeld2 wrote:
So because the rule is more specific it shouldn't apply?
It shouldn't apply because it can't apply. Thus logical course of action is look at the generic rule (which is there for a purpose!) instead of declaring that the attack auto-hits.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 16:00:45
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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The Hive Mind
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Crimson wrote:rigeld2 wrote:
So because the rule is more specific it shouldn't apply?
It shouldn't apply because it can't apply. Thus logical course of action is look at the generic rule (which is there for a purpose!) instead of declaring that the attack auto-hits.
I'm pretty sure no one is saying anything auto-hits.
People are saying that a) the rules fail to function as written and b) your assertion of intent is not the only possibility.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 16:09:39
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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rigeld2 wrote: Kommissar Kel wrote:Has no one brought up the difference in it not being an assault weapon, but that using only counts as firing an assault weapon?
It is a pretty big difference.
Firing an assault weapon gives you certain capabilities and denials(well, no real denials aside from not being able to fire another weapon without other rules in place).
Being an assault weapon has a weapon profile and gives the number of shots that you have to roll to hit with.
When firing an assault weapon, how many dice do you roll? How do you determine this information?
I dont think you "got" what I was saying.
In this case you roll 0 dice because you have no profle telling you how many shots you have.
What you do is follow the rules for firing assault weapons on page 51: shoot the number of times indicated in the profile regardless of whether you have moved(0 in this case as there is no profile), may assault in the assault phase, and must target the same unit as the rest of your unit.
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This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/06 16:29:51
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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DJGietzen wrote: DeathReaper wrote:And you have a generic rule that says something to the effect of [Unless otherwise stated all assault weapons fire one shot]?
If so could you quote it for us?
P.S. mind answering my question in my previous post?
Its on page 13.
Specifically where does this information reside on Page 13, because I see nothing that states anything about [Puppet Master is treated as an Assault 1 weapon, therefore you fire one shot[].
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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