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Artillery aren't vehicles, they're not limited to a 45 degree firing angle.

You get a cover saved depending on what your model is behind.
(25% covered or 80% covered, by a ruin/wall you get your 4+
i don't know where people are getting the 5+ flat. (this wasn't the first time)

I forgot to mention the main reason they call this is because they're not only behind some wall, but the gun also is shooting through a forest, over a small building, and around a rock. If it's just a wall, they'll usually stick with the 5+.

How should it work if say you have two units, both say 12" away from a ruin, clear line of sight to the other unit through windows in the ruin? Should the target unit get a cover save?

Looky Likey wrote:
How should it work if say you have two units, both say 12" away from a ruin, clear line of sight to the other unit through windows in the ruin? Should the target unit get a cover save?

I'm pretty sure they get an obscured cover save, not sure how much tho but i would guess it's a 5+. Someone correct me please if I'm wrong!

Looky Likey wrote:
How should it work if say you have two units, both say 12" away from a ruin, clear line of sight to the other unit through windows in the ruin? Should the target unit get a cover save?

No, a model needs to be obscured to get a cover save from ruins.

Looky Likey wrote:
How should it work if say you have two units, both say 12" away from a ruin, clear line of sight to the other unit through windows in the ruin? Should the target unit get a cover save?

Draw LoS from each model in the firing unit. If a model in the unit being shot at is >25% obscured from any of the firing models then it gets a cover save. Not all models in the target unit will necessarily get the save. The value of the save depends on the object doing the obscuring (There's a brief example list on page 18 of the BRB, Ruins is 4+).

If you can see them clearly enough with your entire unit to not allow them a save, you either have a small (1-3 models) unit or your ruins are made of perspex (I'm exaggerating for effect, I'm sure there is a middle ground).

---

On Topic: Initiative tests for Sweeping Advance (and the equivalent Pursuit rule in WHFB), I can never remember whether the pursuers need to equal or beat the fleeing score. Given the sheer number of times it comes up, and that I look it up every time (can't even remember the page number), my friends just roll their eyes whenever it comes up. (It's Equal, in case anyone was wondering. And yes, I did just look it up again!)

Unfortunately for some of my group, the concepts of true LoS.

Yes, those two Lootas can see my tank around the terrain...that doesn't mean they ALL get to shoot. UGH!

 Quanar wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:
How should it work if say you have two units, both say 12" away from a ruin, clear line of sight to the other unit through windows in the ruin? Should the target unit get a cover save?

Draw LoS from each model in the firing unit. If a model in the unit being shot at is >25% obscured from any of the firing models then it gets a cover save. Not all models in the target unit will necessarily get the save. The value of the save depends on the object doing the obscuring (There's a brief example list on page 18 of the BRB, Ruins is 4+).

If you can see them clearly enough with your entire unit to not allow them a save, you either have a small (1-3 models) unit or your ruins are made of perspex (I'm exaggerating for effect, I'm sure there is a middle ground).

---

On Topic: Initiative tests for Sweeping Advance (and the equivalent Pursuit rule in WHFB), I can never remember whether the pursuers need to equal or beat the fleeing score. Given the sheer number of times it comes up, and that I look it up every time (can't even remember the page number), my friends just roll their eyes whenever it comes up. (It's Equal, in case anyone was wondering. And yes, I did just look it up again!)

That makes sense. Particular piece of scenery has multiple ground floor windows and its possible to position a small unit (5 models) so that they can all see through the windows, the guy who owns this piece of scenery states that as they are shooting through the windows at some distance that he gets a cover save, doesn't seem to fit with your description of the rules that also matches what I think.

Looky Likey wrote:

 Quanar wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:
How should it work if say you have two units, both say 12" away from a ruin, clear line of sight to the other unit through windows in the ruin? Should the target unit get a cover save?

Draw LoS from each model in the firing unit. If a model in the unit being shot at is >25% obscured from any of the firing models then it gets a cover save. Not all models in the target unit will necessarily get the save. The value of the save depends on the object doing the obscuring (There's a brief example list on page 18 of the BRB, Ruins is 4+).

If you can see them clearly enough with your entire unit to not allow them a save, you either have a small (1-3 models) unit or your ruins are made of perspex (I'm exaggerating for effect, I'm sure there is a middle ground).

That makes sense. Particular piece of scenery has multiple ground floor windows and its possible to position a small unit (5 models) so that they can all see through the windows, the guy who owns this piece of scenery states that as they are shooting through the windows at some distance that he gets a cover save, doesn't seem to fit with your description of the rules that also matches what I think.

I don't have my book with me at work. But out of clarification, can you choose to not shoot a model to maintain that the unit doesn't get cover(if that one model not firing is the only one that would grant cover for the entire unit's shooting)?

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:

 Quanar wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:
How should it work if say you have two units, both say 12" away from a ruin, clear line of sight to the other unit through windows in the ruin? Should the target unit get a cover save?

Draw LoS from each model in the firing unit. If a model in the unit being shot at is >25% obscured from any of the firing models then it gets a cover save. Not all models in the target unit will necessarily get the save. The value of the save depends on the object doing the obscuring (There's a brief example list on page 18 of the BRB, Ruins is 4+).

If you can see them clearly enough with your entire unit to not allow them a save, you either have a small (1-3 models) unit or your ruins are made of perspex (I'm exaggerating for effect, I'm sure there is a middle ground).

That makes sense. Particular piece of scenery has multiple ground floor windows and its possible to position a small unit (5 models) so that they can all see through the windows, the guy who owns this piece of scenery states that as they are shooting through the windows at some distance that he gets a cover save, doesn't seem to fit with your description of the rules that also matches what I think.

I don't have my book with me at work. But out of clarification, can you choose to not shoot a model to maintain that the unit doesn't get cover(if that one model not firing is the only one that would grant cover for the entire unit's shooting)?

That's focused fire, you can either shoot the entire unit and they get cover, or just shoot the ones not in cover (thus limit the number of models you can wound). Both units are either side of the scenery, its a large L shaped wall with windows in.

You can opt to not fire certain models for any reason. If it's only a single model in the firing unit that is causing the target unit to get cover, just don't shoot that one model.

Yes, you can always choose how many units shoot, this is quite useful to avoid granting cover saves because one of your squad didn't quite make into the correct firing arc, or to stop something firing a non-assault weapon to allow you to charge in the assault phase.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Yes, you can always choose how many units models shoot, this is quite useful to avoid granting cover saves because one of your squad didn't quite make into the correct firing arc, or to stop something firing a non-assault weapon to allow you to charge in the assault phase.

Fixed that for you - always a good idea to use the right terminology

meant to write "models in a unit", I should probably get some sleep...

 Happyjew wrote:

SBG wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:

There's also a couple of people who think that lack of line of sight can buff cover saves. "You can only see his head. 2+ cover."

If I'm not mistaken, you get a flat cover save of 5+,

Not quite. It usually is 5+ but some things can provide a static cover save that is better (such as Ruins).

followed by only being able to remove models that are actually visible, correct? Just making sure we're playing it right.

This part is also correct, however blast and barrage can get around this.

Thanks for the clarification, I appreciate it.

Forgot enemy had krak grenades assaulted with wraithknight thinking they can't wound him and remove his last wound

You can use krak grenades on a monstrous creature? I thought that was only reserved for melta bombs.

EDIT: p.62 damn you're right. That means a unit of 10 marines can put out 10 S6 attacks against a monstrous creature at I4. Not bad. Are there any MCs with 4+ armor saves?

Harpies, Mycetic Spores, most Daemons.

But why would you want to charge into a Mycetic Spore? A singe Krak Missile will insta-gib it.

I didn't say it was a good idea, just that it has a 4+ or worse armour save.

 Happyjew wrote:
But why would you want to charge into a Mycetic Spore? A singe Krak Missile will insta-gib it.

To get extra distance to mvoe towards / away from an objective
Because you needed to kill it, and your last krak missile missed. Charging was the only option

As theyre not vehicles they can deny, so can be a real pain....

It still surprises me when people do not correctly use TLoS.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Harpies, Mycetic Spores, most Daemons.

It's a two-edged sword with Daemons all things considered. Bloodthirster - has 3+ armor so Ap4 is laughed off, moreover you do not want your tacticals to be charged by this monster. Great Unclean One - Will most likely have Iron Arm going and is Toughness 7 without it, still don't want your tacticals in combat with this thing. Keeper of Secrets - hits before you do assuming open terrain charge, do not want in combat with. Lord of Change - can stay out of combat easily though isn't terrible at combat, probably have best chance against this thing.

Everyone I know always seems to forget Skyfire also affects Skimmers. It makes the Hunter, Stalker and Hydra a lot better than they seem in a Tau/Eldar dominated meta....

I still find myself moving all models I intend to assault with to an inch away from their target and hoping I don't roll snake eyes for charge range..

Still sometimes find myself requesting opponents take 'all on your own tests' and realise I'm being daft mid-sentence.

Myself and my gaming buds often forget to declare a focus fire.

Drop-Pods having to snapfire when landing.

My memory sucks balls!

 wildboar wrote:
...
Drop-Pods having to snapfire when landing.

well, crap. count me in that camp as well, but I go the opposite direction... forgetting that they *can* snapfire on the turn they arrive, if I'm not rocking the deathwind launcher. just realized I forgot that in tuesday night's game. oops!

 wildboar wrote:
I still find myself moving all models I intend to assault with to an inch away from their target and hoping I don't roll snake eyes for charge range..

Don't roll double 1s charging those pathfinders with a grav drone, that are sitting next to a grav wave generator objective

Biggest rule i forget is hammer of wrath. I always have either bikernobz or a MC in my lists, so its always there and i always forget about it lol.

I keep making the mistake of firing all my chimera weapons after moving 6"s.

Sometimes I move, shoot my Multi-laser, then my heavy flamer, or shoot my flamer, then don't make Multi-laser snapshots.

So annoying, but perhaps it's because I'm use to my tanks firing everything after moving.