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This is done from a perspective of the Primarchs each getting one of the strengths of the Emperor from the Horus Heresy series (Betrayal, Massacre).
So for example Mortarion's 7 wounds, Angron's S:7 and 7 attacks, Fulgrims I7 ,half the primarch's T7,etc.
Well let's get to it
[WS][BS][S][T][W][I.][A][LD][SV] 1250?
[..8..][.8.][.7][7][.7][7][.7][.10][2+/3++
Unit Type: Independent Character (Infantry)
Unit Composition: 1 Emperor of Mankind
Special Rules: Primarch (found in the HH, AW, IWND 4+, Terror, Fearless, Fleet, IC), Psychic Mastery 7, Psychic God, Master of Mankind, Master of the Astartes, Unique Psychic powers
Wargear: Sword of the divine Aquilla, The Aquilla's Grasp, The Emperor's Armor

Psychic Powers
-Annihilism Maelstrom: Warp Charge Cost:6/ Witchfire/ S: D/ AP:1/ 10inch blast
-Dies Irae: Warp Charge Cost:3/ Witchfire/ S:8/ AP:3/ Assault 6D6 (May not be used Twice the same turn)
-Armor of Thorns: Charge Cost:2/ Blessing/ Target is Caster/ 2 turn Duration/ Whenever Caster suffers unsaved wounds in CC, the model who inflicted the wounds suffers D4 S:5 AP:4 autohits
-Arm of Adamantite: Charge Cost:2/ Blessing/ Target is Caster/ 1 turn Duration/ Caster Gains D3 Strength and Toughness, and a 5+ FNP. May not increase S above 10.
-Blessing of the Emperor: Charge Cost 2/ Blessing/ Target: 1 friendly unit within 30 inches of the Emperor/ 1 turn duration/ Target unit gains 1 point of Strength and Toughness, Furious Charge and assault, and defensive grenades
-Foresight (): Charge Cost 1/ Curse (forgot the term)/ Target: 1 enemy unit/ 1 turn duration/ Target unit has -2 to their cover saves OR Target: 1 friendly unit within 30 inches of the Emperor/ Target unit gains +2 to their cover saves to a maximum of 3+.
-Inspiring Aura: Charge Cost:1/ Blessing/ Target: The Emperor/ 1 turn duration/ All friendly units within 15 inches of the Emperor use the Emperor's leadership stat as their's.

Special Rules
-Psychic God: The Emperor has a 3+ DTW, Ignores Perils of the Warp on a 3+. The Emperor cannot be turned into a spawn or herald under any circumstances, and is immune to the Shadow in the Warp.
-Master of Mankind: 3 units of your choice have perfect deepstriking, when deepstriking within 24 inches of the Emperor. These units are chosen at the beginning of the game.
-Master of the Astartes: The Emperor can grant any set of legion special rules to any 3 squads of tactical marines. This is again chosen at the beginning of the game.

Wargear
-Intermin Conquestum:S+2, AP:2, Concussive (somehow)
-Armor of the Emperor: This armor grants the Emperor a 2+ armor save, and a 3++ invulnerable save. It cannot be broken or have it's saves weakened. Still affected normally by S: D
-The Aquilla's Grasp: S: as user, AP:2, every successful wound on enemy models results in -1 to S,T,I,A.

Welp I'll be in the presidential Bunker to avoid the coming gak storm.
Notes: Intermin Conquestum (Emperor's power sword) is Latin for endless conquest. I think it's pretty fitting.
Notes: The Emperor can be used in any legion army. This means he can be thrown in as the centerpiece of the World Eaters, Iron Hands, Death Guard, etc, any legion.
Notes: The Emperor has a thing for the Aquilla. He chose it as his symbol. You can tell a lot about any historical warlord from their symbol, so I figured it was at least partially appropriate.

Lot better than your previous ieas but I have a couple of minor suggestions.

1: Ditch the D4 on one of the powers, just keep it as a D3 since nothing else in the game uses a D4.

2: I'd remove the "reflecting psychic powers" bit from the Psychic God rule, just for balance' sake.

Wait so this is actually good?
Well, does anyone have any other suggestions.

Is this designed for use with the HH rules and balanced with the Primarchs?

 Blacksails wrote:
Is this designed for use with the HH rules and balanced with the Primarchs?

It's designed for use with 30k. Whether or not it's balanced with the primarchs depends on your opinions of the Emprah.
It could be far too little, or a little too much.
But yes it's intended to be balanced with the primarchs.

Okay, well its certainly a lot more reasonable than your previous attempts.

My only real issue is the psychic mastery. I'm not a fan of a D strength power on him. I understand where you're coming from fluff wise, but he would be perfectly balanced and still very powerful is he was Psychic mastery 5-ish, and treated all BRB powers as warp charge 1. Then allow him to either select any discipline to know entirely, or roll on any table in any combination with the ability to re-roll each power as needed.

A 3+ DTW would feel a little more balanced personally. Ignore perils on a 3+ is fine, but I wouldn't make it reflect back on the caster.

I'd personally make the sword S+2, AP2, and the claw AP2. Gives them the right extra amount of oomph.

Then I'd price him down to 1000 ish. I'll take a look again later and compare him to the other primarchs.

 Blacksails wrote:
Okay, well its certainly a lot more reasonable than your previous attempts.

My only real issue is the psychic mastery. I'm not a fan of a D strength power on him. I understand where you're coming from fluff wise, but he would be perfectly balanced and still very powerful is he was Psychic mastery 5-ish, and treated all BRB powers as warp charge 1. Then allow him to either select any discipline to know entirely, or roll on any table in any combination with the ability to re-roll each power as needed.

A 3+ DTW would feel a little more balanced personally. Ignore perils on a 3+ is fine, but I wouldn't make it reflect back on the caster.

I'd personally make the sword S+2, AP2, and the claw AP2. Gives them the right extra amount of oomph.

Then I'd price him down to 1000 ish. I'll take a look again later and compare him to the other primarchs.

I edited the S: D blast to cost 6 charges instead of 5. Removing it completely would really hurt the unit too badly for Apoc.
I also added another power to complete the cycle of being able expend all the charges each turn regardless of power choice.
I removed the reflecting bit and weakened the DTW to a 3+.
I think having him use normal powers would be a step too far. The only two powers that are completely different are the two witchfire powers which are made to give some Apoc ability.
I'm going to keep the power choices.
With the changes currently made would you play against it?

Its a lot better then most the stuff I've seen from you.

I would change the sword to basically like the burning blade since fluff wise it was wielded by him or something iirc

I would change his armor to be breakable/reduced since there is no reason it shouldn't be able to (a necrons armor can be broke and that IS their body)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the sD power I would just copy and paste it from the formation with 5 libbys from the apoc book for balance sake

Gotta hand it to you, this is a nice step in the right direction Primordial, well done.

I'd echo Blacksails on the rules stuff, but the only real tweak I'd make is changing the names of stuff. Is his sword and claw really "of the Aquila"? This could just be fluff I know, but it is kinda repetitive and boring for naming.

I think you should add something to assault charges to represent his teleportation powers, maybe reduce the enemy Initiative to 1 for that turn. Maybe have that as an upgrade (15 or 20 points) that would hopefully keep it from being OP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think you should add something to assault charges to represent his teleportation powers, maybe reduce the enemy Initiative to 1 for that turn. Maybe have that as an upgrade (15 or 20 points) that would hopefully keep it from being OP.

-Inspiring Aura: Charge Cost:1/ Blessing/ Target: The Emperor/ 1 turn duration/ All units within 15 inches of the Emperor use the Emperor's leadership stat as their's.

In my opinion this should not be a psychic power. Also, "All units" should be changed to "All friendly units"

What about taking Custodes as an honor guard type unit?

While still in my opinion utter crap this is far better than your previous attempts. And I think for the fist time ever your reasoning is sort of legitimate, I dig the "best part from every Primarch thing. I still think any non mega huge character over 1000 points is OTT though.


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Also out of interest what did you predict Magnus' mastery level is going to be?

BaconUprising wrote:
While still in my opinion utter crap this is far better than your previous attempts. And I think for the fist time ever your reasoning is sort of legitimate, I dig the "best part from every Primarch thing. I still think any non mega huge character over 1000 points is OTT though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also out of interest what did you predict Magnus' mastery level is going to be?

I think I remember him predicting it to be 5.
I think that with unique powers that'd be silly but with chosen normal powers it'd be fine.
Lorgar upgraded has any 3 powers that he chooses.
The transcendant c'tan is 1250 points and the model for the Emperor will leave way more of an impression than that. Should be bigger, better looking, easier to spot, etc.
I have a copy of the Reaper Emperor on the eagle totem and it's all of these things.

I can't remember Horus' stats off the top of my head, but I reckon they were a lot more modest than this

They are a hell of a lot more modest than this but in his defence that represents undaemonofied Horus who would be killed by the Emperor pretty easily.

 Dakkamite wrote:
I can't remember Horus' stats off the top of my head, but I reckon they were a lot more modest than this

That's nondaemon Horus who would get crushed like a bug by the Emprah.
The title says these are meant to be used with the 30k primarchs.


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BaconUprising wrote:
They are a hell of a lot more modest than this but in his defence that represents undaemonofied Horus who would be killed by the Emperor pretty easily.

These are quite a bit more modest in comparison to Horus' rules considering this is the Emperor.

No there not. Not in the slightest. But they are an improvement.

Honestly, the Emperor should be a 700-ish pts model in terms of power level compared to the other primarchs.

There are certainly a number of tweaks I'd make this, but its a step in the right direction.

 Blacksails wrote:
Honestly, the Emperor should be a 700-ish pts model in terms of power level compared to the other primarchs.

There are certainly a number of tweaks I'd make this, but its a step in the right direction.

I wholeheartedly agree! Exalted.

 Blacksails wrote:
Honestly, the Emperor should be a 700-ish pts model in terms of power level compared to the other primarchs.

There are certainly a number of tweaks I'd make this, but its a step in the right direction.

What? 700 points?
When the Emperor got serious with a heavily buffed Horus (possessed by all chaos gods, damn) he splattered him.
Horus was so buffed out he got alpha level psyker powers out of the blue.
Where would you get numbers like that, because that's a hatecrime against the fluff?


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BaconUprising wrote:
No there not. Not in the slightest. But they are an improvement.

Horus has 6 wounds. Emperor has 7.
You know what? They're certainly not obnoxious but they're certainly not modest.
The Emperor having stats that are the best piece of each primarch is how I imagine most people see the Emperor stat wise.

Unlikely. Most people who have actually played a decent amount of games of 40k would agree with Blacksails and myself simply for the purposes of balance.

BaconUprising wrote:
Unlikely. Most people who have actually played a decent amount of games of 40k would agree with Blacksails and myself simply for the purposes of balance.

Balance in Apoc
Now I get it!! Your view is flat out wrong.
Apoc isn't about balance in the way you're thinking about at all. You actually have to argue for the existence of the balance you're thinking of. The only balance is balance between armies and lists and that's all that's needed to have a fun Apoc game which is what it's all about.
Most people would want the Emperor to be more destructive than an Emperor titan. That's my experience with everyone. And a huge understatement fluffwise.
There's nothing wrong with a 1000+ point non titan models (Hierophant, Hierodule, Harridan, Transcendent C'tan).
This basically plays out the same way all the other primarchs do as being GC's in a smaller model. Nothing wrong with that.
Besides all of this the actual balance of this unit is apparently perfectly fine according to everyone. Yeah.


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 Dakkamite wrote:
I can't remember Horus' stats off the top of my head, but I reckon they were a lot more modest than this

Horus statline was basically 1 less in every stat but a higher effective strength due to his sick S:10 power maul.

By "fine with everyone" you mean 6 people in this thread who think its a step in the right direction? Would you mind referencing where in fluff the Emperor is described as being stronger than an imperator war Titan? A hierophant is a bio Titan.


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I still maintain that you can't call something balanced because it can be killed.

BaconUprising wrote:
By "fine with everyone" you mean 6 people in this thread who think its a step in the right direction? Would you mind referencing where in fluff the Emperor is described as being stronger than an imperator war Titan? A hierophant is a bio Titan.


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I still maintain that you can't call something balanced because it can be killed.

Well he released the energy of a supernovae like it's nothing...
(to think horus's massive flagship couldn't withstand this highly concentrated blast (not a supernovae sized bang) is stupid)
He killed hundreds of thousands of daemons that broke into the throne room of Terra while walking around doing other stuff..
He defeated Horus who was an alpha psyker at the time and thus already more destructive than an imperator. The fight was like a lion fighting a mouse, when Emps gets real...
He beat the Void Dragon with a sword and horse. The Void Dragon withstood hundreds of planet busting lasers..
He's so far above normal psykers, he's unaffected by blanks, or anti psyker stuff
Numerous other Examples.
There are only like six people in the thread.
Never once said that. Have no idea where you got that from but whatever. This is less than a Reaver Titan which is the same points cost. It's in line with other models of the same points cost. That's what makes it balanced.

This one time, in a book I read, the Emperor killed a bazillion gajillion people by thinking hard enough.

Or, you know, there's the rules that represent a realistic Emperor on par with the other primarchs.

But hey, we can always take BL novels as source for rules now, so we got that going for us.

Anyways, on topic, don't take anything written in BL novels as anything other than interpretations of a future god, which obviously biases his abilities to be legendary.

 Blacksails wrote:
This one time, in a book I read, the Emperor killed a bazillion gajillion people by thinking hard enough.

Or, you know, there's the rules that represent a realistic Emperor on par with the other primarchs.

But hey, we can always take BL novels as source for rules now, so we got that going for us.

Anyways, on topic, don't take anything written in BL novels as anything other than interpretations of a future god, which obviously biases his abilities to be legendary.

It isn't "that one time". It's the character that's the thing.
These are in line with primarchs stat wise. Prime did what he could to assure that. It's not the statline anyone has trouble with, it's the psyker powers. But even then this is still passably balanced by any standard for its points cost, when compared to other Apoc units.
I'll do my own version of the rules in the morning.

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
By "fine with everyone" you mean 6 people in this thread who think its a step in the right direction? Would you mind referencing where in fluff the Emperor is described as being stronger than an imperator war Titan? A hierophant is a bio Titan.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I still maintain that you can't call something balanced because it can be killed.

Well he released the energy of a supernovae like it's nothing...
(to think horus's massive flagship couldn't withstand this highly concentrated blast (not a supernovae sized bang) is stupid)
He killed hundreds of thousands of daemons that broke into the throne room of Terra while walking around doing other stuff..
He defeated Horus who was an alpha psyker at the time and thus already more destructive than an imperator. The fight was like a lion fighting a mouse, when Emps gets real...
He beat the Void Dragon with a sword and horse. The Void Dragon withstood hundreds of planet busting lasers..
He's so far above normal psykers, he's unaffected by blanks, or anti psyker stuff
Numerous other Examples.
There are only like six people in the thread.
Never once said that. Have no idea where you got that from but whatever. This is less than a Reaver Titan which is the same points cost. It's in line with other models of the same points cost. That's what makes it balanced.

This is just wrong in so many ways I won't bother to reason with you anymore. Goodbye.

BaconUprising wrote:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
By "fine with everyone" you mean 6 people in this thread who think its a step in the right direction? Would you mind referencing where in fluff the Emperor is described as being stronger than an imperator war Titan? A hierophant is a bio Titan.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I still maintain that you can't call something balanced because it can be killed.

Well he released the energy of a supernovae like it's nothing...
(to think horus's massive flagship couldn't withstand this highly concentrated blast (not a supernovae sized bang) is stupid)
He killed hundreds of thousands of daemons that broke into the throne room of Terra while walking around doing other stuff..
He defeated Horus who was an alpha psyker at the time and thus already more destructive than an imperator. The fight was like a lion fighting a mouse, when Emps gets real...
He beat the Void Dragon with a sword and horse. The Void Dragon withstood hundreds of planet busting lasers..
He's so far above normal psykers, he's unaffected by blanks, or anti psyker stuff
Numerous other Examples.
There are only like six people in the thread.
Never once said that. Have no idea where you got that from but whatever. This is less than a Reaver Titan which is the same points cost. It's in line with other models of the same points cost. That's what makes it balanced.

This is just wrong in so many ways I won't bother to reason with you anymore. Goodbye.

If you cant say how it's wrong, I'm right and you're just trying to be argumentative. Show some humility when you lose, you'll look better.
All that gak happened in the fluff, and there are 6 people in the thread, and that does indeed make it balanced.

By god, I was happy to let you stew in your ignorance, but that last post was so fething obnoxious that I just had to post here to say that I agree wholeheartedly with Bacon.

Any character that could "beat the Void Dragon with a sword and horse. The Void Dragon withstood hundreds of planet busting lasers.." or casually defeat millions or daemons or whatever sounds like both a terrible gary stu and an awful character to go up against on the table.

The veneer of 'balance' is about as thin here as the whole idea that you are somehow not ThePrimordial using multiple accounts to back up your terrible OP speshul snowflake characters.

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
By "fine with everyone" you mean 6 people in this thread who think its a step in the right direction? Would you mind referencing where in fluff the Emperor is described as being stronger than an imperator war Titan? A hierophant is a bio Titan.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I still maintain that you can't call something balanced because it can be killed.

Well he released the energy of a supernovae like it's nothing...
(to think horus's massive flagship couldn't withstand this highly concentrated blast (not a supernovae sized bang) is stupid)
He killed hundreds of thousands of daemons that broke into the throne room of Terra while walking around doing other stuff..
He defeated Horus who was an alpha psyker at the time and thus already more destructive than an imperator. The fight was like a lion fighting a mouse, when Emps gets real...
He beat the Void Dragon with a sword and horse. The Void Dragon withstood hundreds of planet busting lasers..
He's so far above normal psykers, he's unaffected by blanks, or anti psyker stuff
Numerous other Examples.
There are only like six people in the thread.
Never once said that. Have no idea where you got that from but whatever. This is less than a Reaver Titan which is the same points cost. It's in line with other models of the same points cost. That's what makes it balanced.

This thread was actually fairing a bit better than your other attempts...and now it's just taken a flaming divebomb into the ground...