Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Makumba wrote:

oraj wrote:
Well nothing outranges DE on a night fight, that's for sure. But you have to use speed to your advantage if you do get outranged. You can just bring the fight to them in 1 turn.

most tau stuff ignores night fight

That's why we got night shields

Doesn't help that much.

They have range DE have to be at 36'' or less to shoot anything. clipping 6'' of their range is nice, but it doesn't help that much.

Makumba wrote:
Do DE work when both eldar and tau ignore cover and outrange the DE shoting units? On a normal board non city fight board DE would be losing 2-3 venoms per turn , which can be a real blow to them , if they go second.

A "normal" board in your case sounds like it doesn't have enough terrain on it. A fairly open table gives all advantage to the army with the most long range guns. 40k should be played on a table with limited lanes of fire and no ability for one army or the other to dominant the whole table from their deployment zone.

Skriker

DE hit hard and fast, but can't take a hit well. They focus on lighting tactics, and their weaponry allows them to take anything down with ease.

They have some trouble in the MC spam currently around, mostly because you only really tend to have 15 dark lances and around 60 poisoned shots plus a good melee unit in a good DE list.

DE do what they need to do though, don't discount them. Just overwhelm and destroy in your little gunboats of pain. You will be fine.

40k should be played on a table with limited lanes of fire and no ability for one army or the other to dominant the whole table from their deployment zone.

Let me guess you play a screamer star or an orc+necron list . I guess you would want to play with 4 LoS blocking terrains , just like in all those US tournaments.

Like anything else DE have some good and bad match-ups. As these guys have said, the general makes the army. I bought DE at the onset of 6e as my 2nd army and promptly got my ass handed to me in nearly every game I played because of bad placement and target priority. I'm just now getting the courage to pick them up and start trying them out again, and having moderate success, but a lot of fun.

I haven't tried to ally them with Eldar yet, but I think that is a place where they can be really devastating with a good beastpack or jetbike council list.

Playing Tau isnt to bad a match up as long as the tau player didnt set the terrain.

you need to isolate and pick apart the army and reallty focus on target priority. Riptides die quite easilyl to massed poisoned weapons. Using a quick strike to limit the shooting ( accept that ow will hurt a bit) and then hit them with a secondary strike of cover units makes a mess of them.

Also carefull use of beast packs evecerates tau! You need to know how to pick your fights.

Against a combat army - play catch the venom and shoot them to bits.
Agaisnt a shootly army - dont try and out shoot them, get in close quick and bright the fight to them.

As said before DE dont do defensive so you need to be able to identify what is the best approach to be offensive. you need to expoilt the opponents weakness more than play to your strength with DE

Makumba wrote:

40k should be played on a table with limited lanes of fire and no ability for one army or the other to dominant the whole table from their deployment zone.

Let me guess you play a screamer star or an orc+necron list . I guess you would want to play with 4 LoS blocking terrains , just like in all those US tournaments.

Wow thanks for offering up nothing useful to the discussion. Your guesses would both be wrong as well. After 20+ years of playing this game each my regular opponents and I far prefer to avoid games where the one side can sit with big guns in its deployment zone and wipe out the enemy without so much as a single need to move in a movement phase. That is boring for us, so we'll continue to not let games get that way.

Skriker

 Skriker wrote:


Wow thanks for offering up nothing useful to the discussion. Your guesses would both be wrong as well. After 20+ years of playing this game each my regular opponents and I far prefer to avoid games where the one side can sit with big guns in its deployment zone and wipe out the enemy without so much as a single need to move in a movement phase. That is boring for us, so we'll continue to not let games get that way.

Skriker

Well I play a for less then 3 years , but I guess all the xp didn't teach you much. LoS blocking terrain only means that it is impossible to beat screamer star. And it is so much more fun when your opponent out speeds you , while being able to be out of LoS till he charges with all those helpful rules like Flying or grimore .

Makumba wrote:

 Skriker wrote:


Wow thanks for offering up nothing useful to the discussion. Your guesses would both be wrong as well. After 20+ years of playing this game each my regular opponents and I far prefer to avoid games where the one side can sit with big guns in its deployment zone and wipe out the enemy without so much as a single need to move in a movement phase. That is boring for us, so we'll continue to not let games get that way.

Skriker

Well I play a for less then 3 years , but I guess all the xp didn't teach you much. LoS blocking terrain only means that it is impossible to beat screamer star. And it is so much more fun when your opponent out speeds you , while being able to be out of LoS till he charges with all those helpful rules like Flying or grimore .

Different strokes for different folks. Everyone likes a different mix of scenery, and there's no need to be rude about it

If you play on Planet Billiard Ball (no LOS blocking terrain) it heavy favours armies that like to shoot at range like IG, Tau and similar. Marines generally like this layout also, as their armour is better than cover saves generally get (Ap 3 or better guns being the only sore point).

This feths Orks, DE, Daemons hard, as they have gak or no armour, and rely on cover. Nids like some cover to advance behind also.

Screamerstar is one build out of all the possible options out there. Denying all LOS blacking terrain because someone MIGHT bring a screamerstar is a touch much. Screamerstar is tough, yes, but hardly indestructable.

Playing with heavy LOS blocking terrain (cityfight, multiole large blockers) swings things the other way. It favours armies that like to actually get to move before being bombarded off the table.

I play a middle ground. 3-4 pieces of smallish LOS blocking terrain on a 6 x 4 table is not that much of an issue, as it encourages a bit more thought than 'all guns fire-- i win'.



You can play however you like scenery-wise, but that doesn't preclude someone else playing it differently.

Makumba wrote:
Well I play a for less then 3 years , but I guess all the xp didn't teach you much. LoS blocking terrain only means that it is impossible to beat screamer star. And it is so much more fun when your opponent out speeds you , while being able to be out of LoS till he charges with all those helpful rules like Flying or grimore .

Really Makumba? All it means is beating screamers? Did someone smack the crap out of your favorite army with a screamer list? You seem pretty obsessesed with it and going so far as to keep the table totally open because of it is pretty over the top response to it having happened. As anyone knows completely open tables heavily favor forces that have lots of long range fire power. Tau, Imperial Guard and similar forces love those wide open tables because they will decimate you before you even get close. Marines love having wide open fields of fire to use their thunderfire cannon to good measure as well. Meanwhile they also know that cover helps all armies to an extent and keepts the IG and Tau gun lines from completely dominating. We prefer there to actually be threats and variety in our games and not just big guns controlling the whole of the board with impunity. If you prefer wide open tables then go for it, just don't try to act like it is some big tactical genius you have going on there.

Skriker

Mikillangelo wrote:
I don't know a durn thing about Dark Eldar, but I highly recommend checking out the 1d4chan tactics review of their army. They give you a description of every single model and upgrade you can take as well as some basic tactics. As an added bonus, they are really funny (assuming you aren't offended by wildly innappropriate humor).
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/6th_Edition_Tactics/Dark_Eldar

If you get offended by wildly inappropriate humor, you shouldn't be on the internet/Dakkadakka in the first place