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Not a ton of gaming around me, but I have one friend I throw down against regularly. He's got a mean mobile tau army, uses a commander as a markerlight-delivery-system then splats all my vehicles with super-accurate missile pods (or decimates da boyz with super-accurate rapid fire). I've never won a game, and it's getting frustrating .

So, learning from my mistakes, but still trying to stay true to what I enjoy about Orks, here is my newest 1500pt VENDETTA WAAAAAGH, or VENDETTAAAAAAAGH :

HQ:
Warboss, bike, PK, Cybork- 135
Big Mek, KFF (goes in BW with Burna Boyz)- 85

Troops:
30 Sluggas, Nob w/ PK&BP- 220
12 Trukk Boyz, Nob w/PK&BP- 147
12 Trukk Boyz, Nob w/PK&BP- 147
3 Meganobz (sitting in a Big Trakk)- 120

Elites:
3 Meganobz (in a different Big Trakk)- 120
5 Burna Boyz, 3 of them Meks (in Battlewagon)- 75

Fast Attack:
10 Stormboyz, Zaggstruck- 205

Heavy Support:
Battlewagon, w/Deffrolla,Big Shootas- 125
Big Trakk, w/Deffrolla- 60
Big Trakk, w/Deffrolla- 60

Total: 1499

Theory: You'll notice: no lootas. In an ork list. In 6th. WTF ? Well, I I didn't pick up Orks to sit at the back and shoot things like some kind of 'umie, and I'm not a huge fan of the loota model. I'm trying to play it old-school and krump 'em in melee. Also, hammerheads are front armor 13, and his suits all jump out of LoS anyway.

So I want to throw tons of legit targets at him, so at least some of them will actually make it across the board. Tau have a little trouble with armor 14, so I'm hoping my Meks will be able to keep repairing the BW as it rumbles across the board and splats into his hammerheads. Zaggstruk and his boyz are a suicide squad to take out his commander/crisis suits. Biker Boss is a new thing I'm trying, but the bike should let me time assaults so he can crack a devilfish just before the boyz pile in, or join Zagg in crisis suit hunting.

What do you think, folks? Am I a fool for not using Lootas? Should I learn to stop worrying and love the dakka? Will Blue forever triumph over Green? Thoughts are welcome.

Im not going to try and force anything on you, but if you take lootas you can cripple fire warrior squads and potentially [if you get the full 3 shots] you can glance their tanks. Im not saying you should spam every elites slot with them, its just that they are a good support unit for orks, who generally get shot from across the board.

Consider investing in some nob bikers or normal bikers to protect your warboss.

I would take away the 30 boyz mob and perhaps get trukks or a wagon for them. Tau can now get ignores cover on all weapons by using 2 markerlight counters, meaning that the main way of orks getting a good save would be gone.

why meks in the burna sqaud?
if your gonna take zagstrukk id go all out so they actually live the assault (Supporting fire is not fun)
it feels like your list is all over the place trying to do the russian (somovich)
I dont think lootas are necessary but they do help alot against tau, if one of his sqauds are out of cover (pathfinders/firewarriors) youll eat him up.
If he runs alot of Crisis suits id use deftcoptas with rokkits/ Looted wagons.. when they hit they hit hard. (I know not assaulty but mad effective.)

Thanks for the input!

 Guitarquero wrote:
why meks in the burna sqaud?

I figure, in this brave new world of hull points, mek tools may actually be useful! If the BW does take a glance or 3 from shooting, each Mek has a 50% chance of repairing the a point of damage, keeping it large and threatening.

His fire warrior squads seldom leave their devilish, let alone cover, though I guess lootas could knock out the transports with some luck... But with skimmer cover, the odds aren't great.

I do love deffkoptas. That might be a better choice than Zag.

Who is this Russian?

The russian is a joke, say Somovich sounds like Some of Each. you got a little bit of everything going on it seems you got a boys mob and tukks and battlewagons and storm boys. should try and pin down what kind of method you want to get your troops to crush skulls, Granted i understand that you may not own 6 trukks and 3 battlewagons or 40 stormboys so if you want to utilize all the models you do own it can still work just requires lots of experience id say.

The thing with the meks in the battlewagon is you only have 2 burna's in that squad in side a massive huge awesome transport that can take better goodies or more burnas, if you want to run the burny wagon of doom take at least 11 burnas and your mek. I dont know what big trakks are? (forgeworld im guessing)

Even better to take lootas versus transports its gonna be hard to cath one of them and your gonna waste an assault turn just to bring on of them down.

The lootas will inevitably pop one and youir trukk boys will hop out and eat em and than on to the next.

also wheres the boss going solo on a bike is suicide he needs company with other nob bikers. My biggest recommendation much like dark_penguin1 said is just take biker nobs if you want to cruish things in cc and they even hav decent shooting. Ive had bad luck with my bikes personally dont think they have enough attacks in assault but im probably doing it wrong.

A list i used versus my friend had 2 looted wagons 9 deft coptas 4 trukks with boys and i believe some lootas and i won, (mainly because he took farsight enclave and i hate all those nasty crisis suits.)

If he has a riptide, i personally ignore the thing unless you are certain you can assault it i find shooting does little to nothing to it. wipe out his squishy obj holders and just camp points. Other than that just have fun,
thats the biggest tip to ork players is just laugh.
laugh at those ones you roll for your pk wounds cause it aint getting much better than that = P

One thing Tau isn't actually great at is dealing with Armor 14. They aren't slouches, but if your opponent doesn't take any Fusion Guns then they don't have very many options to deal with 14 armor. So I like where your head is with the Battle Wagons. The Tau will eventually find a way to get side armor on you, but don't sweat it the Battlewagons aren't meant to live, they are mean to be a boyz delivery system.

That said, the Trukk is also great against Tau. It won't survive one Tau rapid-fire shooting, but you really only need one turn of movement to seriously threaten the entire Tau line. As such, I would recommend you either take a lot more Trukks or none at all. With Trukks, if you go first you are in a great position. Move 24" straight at the blue boyz and then hope that you careen straight into them. If you go second you might be in for some trouble, but with 6 Trukks you can bet that some of your boyz will be well set up for a turn 2 assault, and boy will they murder Tau in CC.

Zagstrukk is a great idea. Your jump boys are golden once you get them into CC and they can get into CC the turn they drop. Very Orky.

I'm going to depart from the common wisdom and recommend you skip out on the Lootas for several reasons.
1 - Not Orky enough
2 - See #1
3 - They will not do much for you. When I play Tau I keep my FWs safe inside their devilfish until just the right moment and apply overwhelming firepower up close and personal. Your Lootas won't do very much damage. For Ork vs Tau you cannot engage them in a shooting game and win. You need to get into combat with the Tau, and the way to do that is to overwhelm the Tau with lots of fast fighty units. Trukks, Zagstruk and Bikers are what you want.

If you really want shooting maybe consider the Shokk attack gun. EVen if you "Zoinks" yourself into CC you are actually likely to win the CC. Oh, also, none of the deadly Tau overwatch if you Zoink.

I speak as a Tau and Ork player so please heed my words and may the WAAAAAAAAAGH be with you.


EDIT!!!!: Drop all of your PKs. They are worthless in this scenario. Save yourself twenty points and bring big choppas instead. Ork Boys are the perfect Tau slaughtering device and do not need any fancy toys for that purpose.

I would throw a small (not too small) squad on the riptide, as One wound can cause it to break, and it has I2. easy to sweep. food for thought.

Not saying lets skrach this list and start a new but idk if this can handle competitive tau. But if hes going vehicle heavy hes doing somthing wrong. In that case i say Get up boyz! We walking! Greentide handles tank heavy tau with breeze. But than if he brings RIPTIDES and suits why not abuse the cheapest av14 in the dex?
A great man once said "one does not simply list tailor tau" the way to beat them is to know exactly the "brand" of tau hes bringing to best them with orks.
Id say loss the meks the HQ mek aswell. Why protect what they can take away. And why repair what they cant hurt?
Stormboyz im not seeing a use for them in this situation. And i feel the same for trukks.
Lootas are a good thing to bring. Ik you hate them but hey this is list tailorwarhammer not fluffhammer

 Orkimedezz wrote:
Not saying lets skrach this list and start a new but idk if this can handle competitive tau. But if hes going vehicle heavy hes doing somthing wrong. In that case i say Get up boyz! We walking! Greentide handles tank heavy tau with breeze. But than if he brings RIPTIDES and suits why not abuse the cheapest av14 in the dex?
A great man once said "one does not simply list tailor tau" the way to beat them is to know exactly the "brand" of tau hes bringing to best them with orks.
Id say loss the meks the HQ mek aswell. Why protect what they can take away. And why repair what they cant hurt?
Stormboyz im not seeing a use for them in this situation. And i feel the same for trukks.
Lootas are a good thing to bring. Ik you hate them but hey this is list tailorwarhammer not fluffhammer

I'm going to second his response with one of my own.

ShootaBoyz and Lootas, ShootaBoyz and Lootas, Lootas and ShootaBoyz, Shootaboyz and Lootas.

March forward with big squads of ShootaBoyz dakkaing away in true orc fashion until you are close enough to assault them. Hidden Klaws will kill vehicles and allow you to sweep Riptides. Lootas soften the scariest targets at range. A KFF helps as well, make them waste markerlights taking away your save instead of boosting their BS to 5. Hint hint, Markerlights are great targets for Lootas.

 Zagman wrote:

 Orkimedezz wrote:


ShootaBoyz and Lootas, ShootaBoyz and Lootas, Lootas and ShootaBoyz, Shootaboyz and Lootas.

orc <--- wats a orc?
Hidden Klaws will kill vehicles and allow you to sweep Riptides. <--- pks do not work well in this ed. i imagine the riptide will challenge out the pk and win.
beating tau with orks is a very hard art to preform.

 Orkimedezz wrote:


orc <--- wats a orc?
Hidden Klaws will kill vehicles and allow you to sweep Riptides. <--- pks do not work well in this ed. i imagine the riptide will challenge out the pk and win.
beating tau with orks is a very hard art to preform.

Lol, of course I meant Ork.

Hidden Klaws aren't what they were, but they still have their uses against vehicles and non character MCs. You can always decline a challenge with a Klaw. I highly doubt the Riptide will be challenging out the PK since the Riptide is not a character and the boyz and PK will most certainly sweep that riptide. The only character Riptide is O'Vesa. Not only that, 2 attacks at WS2(1 if its earth Caste) and I2 is terrible.


Beating Tau with Orks is doable, but it depends on the Ork build and depends on the Tau Build.

Suit and Riptide heavy Tau lists are very susceptible to high body Ork lists. And Ork shooting is effective enough. In fact, Tau players, myself included, will absolutely cringe when we are killing 6pt models. Now, give me a target like Nob BIkers or other pricier Ork models and I'll smile. The same goes for the OP's list, he has some flashy expensive bits in that army and Tau love that, but waste all of that precious advanced firepower killing 6pt boyz and the Tau aren't neary as point efficient. A little target priority with the lootas will work wonders. Keep the Lootas far back away from the MLs so they will keep their cover and if the Tau player dedicates firepower to killing them, that is firepower he can't dedicate to the onrush of 120 bodies.

Without Markerlight Support it takes 4.5 Pulse Rifle Shots to kill one Ork. 50% hit, 66% to Wound, 66% bypass Cover. So 139.5 shots to kill a Squad of Boyz. A 12man Firewarrior squad with 'ui needs to put out 90 shots to kill their points in Boyz. Actually, point for point in a shoot off the Ork Boyz Beat Firewarriors badly at 18".

Short of Pulse Bomb Tau, which the OP is not facing, the Tau player just won't kill enough boyz. Though, Broadside Spam can dish out quite a bit of damage and can't be discounted.

This is how I would take on the Tau.

105 Warboss with a Bike Big Choppa
85 Big Mek with KFF

215 30 ShootaBoyz with PK Nob
215 30 ShootaBoyz with PK Nob
215 30 ShootaBoyz with PK Nob
215 30 ShootaBoyz with PK Nob

150 Lootas x10
150 Lootas x10
150 Lootas x10

1500pts on the head and many Tau lists will have an absolute nightmare against it. If Orks go first they pretty much will beat most tau lists.

 Zagman wrote:

 Orkimedezz wrote:


orc <--- wats a orc?
Hidden Klaws will kill vehicles and allow you to sweep Riptides. <--- pks do not work well in this ed. i imagine the riptide will challenge out the pk and win.
beating tau with orks is a very hard art to preform.

Lol, of course I meant Ork.

Hidden Klaws aren't what they were, but they still have their uses against vehicles and non character MCs. You can always decline a challenge with a Klaw. I highly doubt the Riptide will be challenging out the PK since the Riptide is not a character and the boyz and PK will most certainly sweep that riptide. The only character Riptide is O'Vesa. Not only that, 2 attacks at WS2(1 if its earth Caste) and I2 is terrible.


Beating Tau with Orks is doable, but it depends on the Ork build and depends on the Tau Build.

Suit and Riptide heavy Tau lists are very susceptible to high body Ork lists. And Ork shooting is effective enough. In fact, Tau players, myself included, will absolutely cringe when we are killing 6pt models. Now, give me a target like Nob BIkers or other pricier Ork models and I'll smile. The same goes for the OP's list, he has some flashy expensive bits in that army and Tau love that, but waste all of that precious advanced firepower killing 6pt boyz and the Tau aren't neary as point efficient. A little target priority with the lootas will work wonders. Keep the Lootas far back away from the MLs so they will keep their cover and if the Tau player dedicates firepower to killing them, that is firepower he can't dedicate to the onrush of 120 bodies.

Without Markerlight Support it takes 4.5 Pulse Rifle Shots to kill one Ork. 50% hit, 66% to Wound, 66% bypass Cover. So 139.5 shots to kill a Squad of Boyz. A 12man Firewarrior squad with 'ui needs to put out 90 shots to kill their points in Boyz. Actually, point for point in a shoot off the Ork Boyz Beat Firewarriors badly at 18".

Short of Pulse Bomb Tau, which the OP is not facing, the Tau player just won't kill enough boyz. Though, Broadside Spam can dish out quite a bit of damage and can't be discounted.

This is how I would take on the Tau.

105 Warboss with a Bike Big Choppa
85 Big Mek with KFF

215 30 ShootaBoyz with PK Nob
215 30 ShootaBoyz with PK Nob
215 30 ShootaBoyz with PK Nob
215 30 ShootaBoyz with PK Nob

150 Lootas x10
150 Lootas x10
150 Lootas x10

1500pts on the head and many Tau lists will have an absolute nightmare against it. If Orks go first they pretty much will beat most tau lists.

well i guess you are correct about that. i still disagree with this list you have made. it could work if tau was going like hammerhead heavy. but i still think in any terni top tier competitive play orks cant fight tau. i have played competitive tau many times and i have yet to find a good way to beat them. the closest i was able to do ok vs them was 7 battlewagons.
going back to competitive tau. it does all depend on your current meta and how people around you play it.

These ideas are great- particularly the insight from part-time Tau!

Regarding the math hammer,

 Zagman wrote:


Without Markerlight Support it takes 4.5 Pulse Rifle Shots to kill one Ork. 50% hit, 66% to Wound, 66% bypass Cover. So 139.5 shots to kill a Squad of Boyz. A 12man Firewarrior squad with 'ui needs to put out 90 shots to kill their points in Boyz. Actually, point for point in a shoot off the Ork Boyz Beat Firewarriors badly at 18".

Unfortunately, I'll be markerlit up like a Christmas tree. With rapid fire, and fancy tau magic from his ethereal, 12 FWs pump out 36 shots, with effective BS 5 (supping 4 ML hits, but if he cascades, or gets lucky possibly an obnoxious BS 7), S 5, and no cover. So, 16 kills ish? If they've been pie plates before now, the Boyz are beginning to not look so hot. Plus, the FWs are still behind the devilish, shooting under and around it, so they'll have cover and I can't assault them.

My initial list is a pretty fractured, but its born of committing to one tactic and then getting beaten and returning to the drawing board.

For reference, his list (as much as I remember, I don't have a tau codex):
Commander, in suit, in markerlight squad with more lights of his own.

Crisis suit team with some missile drones

2 units of FWs in Devilish

Ethereal (in a fw squad)

2 hammerheads with rail guns

Skyray with more MLs

Stealth suit team.

It generally works with him taking out priority targets tor anything fast (mostly with suits) while sidestepping my Boyz (or before I get there, depending on deployment type) then bringing the FWs in as a firing squad.

Things that have almost worked: Zaggstruk took out his markerlight commander a few games ago, that was pretty keen. Mega nobs take a LOT of concentrated fire to take down, whic is encouraging. I made the mistake of putting my Big Trakks (forgeworld rules for my scratchbuilts, 12/11/10 for a 12 unit transport, can take in squads of 3) in a vehicle squadron so they got destroyed in one round of shooting, but splitting them up will force him to pick targets.

DaisyWondercow wrote:
These ideas are great- particularly the insight from part-time Tau!

Regarding the math hammer,

 Zagman wrote:


Without Markerlight Support it takes 4.5 Pulse Rifle Shots to kill one Ork. 50% hit, 66% to Wound, 66% bypass Cover. So 139.5 shots to kill a Squad of Boyz. A 12man Firewarrior squad with 'ui needs to put out 90 shots to kill their points in Boyz. Actually, point for point in a shoot off the Ork Boyz Beat Firewarriors badly at 18".

Unfortunately, I'll be markerlit up like a Christmas tree. With rapid fire, and fancy tau magic from his ethereal, 12 FWs pump out 36 shots, with effective BS 5 (supping 4 ML hits, but if he cascades, or gets lucky possibly an obnoxious BS 7), S 5, and no cover. So, 16 kills ish? If they've been pie plates before now, the Boyz are beginning to not look so hot. Plus, the FWs are still behind the devilish, shooting under and around it, so they'll have cover and I can't assault them.

My initial list is a pretty fractured, but its born of committing to one tactic and then getting beaten and returning to the drawing board.

For reference, his list (as much as I remember, I don't have a tau codex):
Commander, in suit, in markerlight squad with more lights of his own.

Crisis suit team with some missile drones

2 units of FWs in Devilish

Ethereal (in a fw squad)

2 hammerheads with rail guns

Skyray with more MLs

Stealth suit team.

It generally works with him taking out priority targets tor anything fast (mostly with suits) while sidestepping my Boyz (or before I get there, depending on deployment type) then bringing the FWs in as a firing squad.

Things that have almost worked: Zaggstruk took out his markerlight commander a few games ago, that was pretty keen. Mega nobs take a LOT of concentrated fire to take down, whic is encouraging. I made the mistake of putting my Big Trakks (forgeworld rules for my scratchbuilts, 12/11/10 for a 12 unit transport, can take in squads of 3) in a vehicle squadron so they got destroyed in one round of shooting, but splitting them up will force him to pick targets.

193 Commander, in suit, in markerlight squad with more lights of his own.

238 Crisis suit team with some missile drones... Broadsides? Crisis can't have missile drones.

405 2 units of FWs in Devilish

50 Ethereal (in a fw squad)

290 2 hammerheads with rail guns

115 Skyray with more MLs

90+ Stealth suit team.

That is in the 1400pt range and looks about right. Honestly, the list I provided has all the tools necessary to beat this list. Lootas outrange his marker lights and get cover from his Submunition Railheads. If he is shooting at them, that is good because then your boyz aren't taking pieplates. If they are shooting at your boyz, that is good because your Lootas will be killing/wrecking choice targets. Your opponent only has two troops and a very limited ability to contest.

Loota Target priority
Markerlights, there won't always be LOS blocking terrain where he needs it. If he is tanking with an Iridium commander, ignore them until boyz are closer or focus fire on the Drones if it presents itself.
Ethereal's Devilfish. Lootas shouldn't have an issue wrecking it in one turn
Ethereal's Firewarriors. His ability can only affect his squad in the Devilfish, or the other squad if its already out of its Devilfish. Once out of the devil Fish you should be able to kill them.

Otherwise, even taking the brunt of his Pulse Shots you have enough boyz to weather it and enough Shootas to kill them back and woe to him if its your Lootas that fire at the squad. Even stock boyz will wreck Railheads and Skyray's in assault.

I stand by my suggest and think it will work well against his list. Well enough it would cause him to change his list after a couple of outings.

Did you mean Missile Drones with his Crisis Suits? If so, his list is illegal, Missile Drones are only an option for Broadsides(Its in the FAQ).

Zagman, I think you're right, he would be hard pressed to bring down 120 boyz slogging toward him. My problem with previous slogging units has been not fully committing- ive never brought more than two before. And as much as i keep poo-pooing them, lootas effectively denying him mobility for his troops is powerful.

I may take battle wagons out for a spin, but the fallback plan is definitely gonna be rolling up my sleeves and painting more Boyz!

And about the missile drones, I'm not sure, they might be some other type, I don't have his list in front of my.

DaisyWondercow wrote:
Zagman, I think you're right, he would be hard pressed to bring down 120 slogging toward him. And as much as i keep poo-pooing them, lootas effectively denying him mobility for his troops is powerful.

I may take battle wagons out for a spin, but the fallback plan is definitely gonna be rolling up my sleeves and painting more Boyz!

And about the missile drones, I'm not sure, they might be some other type, I don't have his list in front of my.

Also, given his list BattleWagons will do well too. Without side shots he only has his two Railheads to kill them. Run 2 or 3 Wagons with Shootaboyz and Lootas and a KFF Bigmek and he will be hard pressed to bring them down. Then deffrolla anything you can.


They are either Shield, Markerlight, or Gun Drones. Were they 18" range Pulse shots? If so, then they were gun drones. It is a fairly common mistake, missile drones could be taken everywhere until the day 1 FAQ squashed that spam.