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As part of my process of divesting myself of way too many models that I'll never get around to playing or painting, I've decided to get rid of my old eldar. These were my main army from RT through 4th Ed... but now I just don't have the time to bring them up to date, repaint them, etc.

However... I'd like to make a single army to keep and play. I've always liked the whole Inyaden ghost warrior idea... so I'd like to put something together based on that. I'll add a few new models as needed, and keep some of my old ones. I'm thinking 1850-2K, based around 1-2 wraith knights, wraith guard as troops, seers, etc.

But... I'm not an expert on Eldar. Could someone who IS suggest a decent but fun and interesting list? I don't have one of the special Inyaden dexes, so it'll have to be an army based on the normal codex, just with an Inyaden flavor. The list doesn't need to be "competitive", but should be good enough to play and have fun with without getting my *ss handed to me at every turn.

Can anyone help?

Thanks muchly - Gits

You can do an Iyanden list without needing the Iyanden book

If you list your modes what you've got, it'll be easier to suggest ideas.

What have you got in the way of wraithguard/lords and warlocks?

Good news! Thx!


Well let's see... I have:

1 wraith knight
10 wraith guard (old school metal ones).
3 wraith lords but they're all the old metal kind. If I were to add wraithlords it would be the cool modern ones.
3 falcon hulls that I think I can turn into passable wave serpents.
A decently painted farseer, two bone singers and a variety of warlocks.

And a ton of supporting stuff, aspect warriors, rangers/pathfinders, guardians, etc.


I'm not opposed to buying new models... just trying to decide what of my old stuff is worth keeping and incorporating into the new army.

I'd either take squads of 5 WG in wave serpents or 10 on foot with psychic support (Farseer/Spiritseer - Bonesinger would make a much better spiritseer than the spiritseer released atm)

Back that up with a couple of duel lance wraithlords with 2 flamers (seems to be the popular build atm)
I've got one with a sword and two starcannons. His job it to kill 2+armour troops.

Reapers on an aegis are good - the exarch is BS5 and can ignore jink saves.

If you're going Iyanden, I'd recommend d-scythes - who doesn't want ap2 flamers that ID on a 6?.

A warithknight would also be fluffy, but they're £70 and I dread to think what that works out to in dollars...

Scorpions are ok
Banshees are meh
Harlequins are a bit meh
Fire dragons still do the same as they ever did.
Spiders are excellent
Reapers are good
Rangers are good against MC's and away from flamers
Guardians and Dire Avengers are also good
Phoenix Lords are better in this ed as 2+ means something
Eldrad is still good
Vauls wrath support batteries can be really useful depending on the game
Fire Prisms are ok

(all just my thoughts )
I'm sure other people will have differing opinions

EDIT:
This thread may be worth a read
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/556650.page

Forgot to mention that I had a WK already... and yes, they're ghastly expensive.

Thanks for the ideas and the link PK, I'll give it a good read.

I'd suggest something that looks like...

Avatar(Optional but synergistic and great with the Iyanded Warlord Traits)
Spiritseers(Minimum 1, but multiple is playable)
Wraithguard and WraithScythes in Serpents(Serpents are extremely helpful, WG on foot, even with Iyanded Primaris are easy to outmaneever and struggle. Serpents also work as AA)
Stock Wratihknights(Can substitute Wraithlords in some applications)

If you aren't running Iyanden a Spirtiseer with Guard behind and ADL with an Icarus is pretty good. 2+ Cover and T6 is nice.

Wait... how to I get an Avatar and 2 Spirit Seers in the same list? Isn't that 3 HQ? (though I suppose w/ 2k points you could do it) Problem with the Avatar is that I hate the model (an issue for me since modeling/painting are big incentives for me). But, I guess I won't rule anything out.


So... maybe something like...

HQ: 2 Spirit Seers or Avatar + SS
TP:10 wraith guard with wraith cannons that can either be deployed in WS or run as a big foot slogging group
TP: 5 WG with D-scythes in WS or not, as the situation calls for
HV: 1-2 WL
HV: 1 WK

Is that a feasible beginning? How would the serpents be outfitted? (i.e. weapons & war gear)
How would you build it up from there?

 Gitsplitta wrote:


So... maybe something like...

HQ: 2 Spirit Seers
TP:10 wraith guard with wraith cannons that can either be deployed in WS or run as a big foot slogging group
TP: 5 WG with D-scythes in WS or not, as the situation calls for
HV: 1-2 WL
HV: 1 WK

Is that a feasible beginning? How would the serpents be outfitted? (i.e. weapons & war gear)
How would you build it up from there?

Looking pretty good. See my above post for my suggestions.

Just noticed you are in the Madison area, I'm north two hours in Stevens Point.

Edit: Serpents are great with Scaterlasers and Holofields. Shuriken Cannons are good, but needing to get the WG in position limits their uses. This is really the best application as the Laser Lock is clutch for Twinlinking the Shield.

 Gitsplitta wrote:
Wait... how to I get an Avatar and 2 Spirit Seers in the same list? Isn't that 3 HQ? (though I suppose w/ 2k points you could do it) Problem with the Avatar is that I hate the model (an issue for me since modeling/painting are big incentives for me). But, I guess I won't rule anything out.


So... maybe something like...

HQ: 2 Spirit Seers or Avatar + SS
TP:10 wraith guard with wraith cannons that can either be deployed in WS or run as a big foot slogging group
TP: 5 WG with D-scythes in WS or not, as the situation calls for
HV: 1-2 WL
HV: 1 WK

Is that a feasible beginning? How would the serpents be outfitted? (i.e. weapons & war gear)
How would you build it up from there?

Well, I'd start with 2x 5 WG with D-scythes in Serpents. The best loadout is tl scatterlaser, underslung shuricannon, and holofield.
Then I'd add 2x5 DA (or 2x 10 Guardian Defenders) in Serpents, too.
The WLs are fluffy but generally a liability in competitive play. I'd opt for as much Warwalkers with scatterlasers as you can get.

Thanks Zag... I actually edited my post to take into consideration your advice... you just ninja'd me with your response!

So, the wraithguard either have the wraith cannon or the doom scythes... wraith blades aren't all that useful?


Stevens Point eh? Perhaps we'll run into each other across a table some day!


@wuestenfux: Sounds like good advice but not very Inyaden-like.

 Gitsplitta wrote:
Thanks Zag... I actually edited my post to take into consideration your advice... you just ninja'd me with your response!

So, the wraithguard either have the wraith cannon or the doom scythes... wraith blades aren't all that useful?


Stevens Point eh? Perhaps we'll run into each other across a table some day!


@wuestenfux: Sounds like good advice but not very Inyaden-like.

Poets and Philosophers (Guardians) are everywhere in the Eldar craftworlds.

 Gitsplitta wrote:
Thanks Zag... I actually edited my post to take into consideration your advice... you just ninja'd me with your response!

So, the wraithguard either have the wraith cannon or the doom scythes... wraith blades aren't all that useful?


Stevens Point eh? Perhaps we'll run into each other across a table some day!


@wuestenfux: Sounds like good advice but not very Inyaden-like.

You can take 1-5 Spiritseers as a single HQ in Iyanden. Thats how you can get an Avatar and two SS.

Wraithblades just lack the teeth or numbers they need to be truly effective IMO. I think in 5th Edition they would have been pretty good. Definitely 5man squads in serpents, as many as you can field.

I'd love that, I'll be at the 1500 in Oshgosh tomorrow with my Farsight Enclave. I think I'll try to make the drive down to Madison next time I get wind of a good tournament down there.

wuestenfux wrote:Poets and Philosophers (Guardians) are everywhere in the Eldar craftworlds.

Touche'

Zagman wrote:You can take 1-5 Spiritseers as a single HQ in Iyanden. Thats how you can get an Avatar and two SS.

Wraithblades just lack the teeth or numbers they need to be truly effective IMO. I think in 5th Edition they would have been pretty good. Definitely 5man squads in serpents, as many as you can field.

I'd love that, I'll be at the 1500 in Oshgosh tomorrow with my Farsight Enclave. I think I'll try to make the drive down to Madison next time I get wind of a good tournament down there.

Ah, got it. Clearly I have to spend some time pondering my Eldar dex. I'm booked this weekend but hope to get out and about a bit more this fall/winter. Madison usually draws a nice crowd. Competitive but good guys with nicely painted armies.

Getting two spirit seers in like that is through the Iyanden codex.

In order to take two spiritseers without the Iyanden dex, you'd have to play 2k and use the double force organisation chart. You'd need to have four troops and then you could do it (its up to 4 hq's then)

That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification PK. Don't have that dex... not sure if anyone around here does. They only sold a few hundred of those didn't they? Or was that some kind of special collectors edition that was in limited numbers?

You can still order it from gw. Iirc, its the same price as the normal codex though...

So... was it NOT a "limited run", or did they just not sell very many?

There was a limited ed cover iirc, same as the codex but the Iyanden book is permanent

Got it. Thanks guys.

OK, so for the sake of argument... let's say the army looks like this...

HQ: Spirit Seer (stock)
HQ: Spirit Seer (stock)
TP: 5 wraith guard (wraith cannons) in wave serpent (SL, HF)
TP: 5 wraith guard (wraith cannons) in wave serpent (SL, HF)
TP: 5 wraith guard (D-scythes) in wave serpent (SL, HF)
H: wraith lord (2x BL, 2x flamer)
H: wraith lord (2x BL, 2x flamer)
H: wraith knight (stock)
1705 pts. (according to Army Builder)

Very fluffy, visually interesting... should be fun to paint & play if not uber competitive (that's OK).

What should I do with the last 145 points? The Seers are stock and I have no FA or EL.

Thoughts?


I suppose I could plunk the WK and WL's on a sky shield and give them all a 4+ invul...

Are you averse to forgeworld?
a nightwing is exactly the same points as you've got spare.
its got a 2+ evade and lasts longer than the codex fliers.
Mine are converted out of the de flier

Other than that, you can take 1-5 spiritseers for each hq choice so you could take more, possibly 1 more in each serpent?
Warp spiders are also good. Up to 36" in a turn and a lot of St6 shooting.

 Gitsplitta wrote:
Got it. Thanks guys.

OK, so for the sake of argument... let's say the army looks like this...

HQ: Spirit Seer (stock)
HQ: Spirit Seer (stock)
TP: 5 wraith guard (wraith cannons) in wave serpent (SL, HF)
TP: 5 wraith guard (wraith cannons) in wave serpent (SL, HF)
TP: 5 wraith guard (D-scythes) in wave serpent (SL, HF)
H: wraith lord (2x BL, 2x flamer)
H: wraith lord (2x BL, 2x flamer)
H: wraith knight (stock)
1705 pts. (according to Army Builder)

Very fluffy, visually interesting... should be fun to paint & play if not uber competitive (that's OK).

What should I do with the last 145 points? The Seers are stock and I have no FA or EL.

Thoughts?


I suppose I could plunk the WK and WL's on a sky shield and give them all a 4+ invul...

I'd drop a Spiritseer and add a Fast Shot Avatar with Disarming Strike(Nothing like a huge chance of success as disarming force weapons).

PredaKhaine wrote:Are you averse to forgeworld?

In principal, no. Unfortunately, none of the gaming stores in this area allow IA rules. (don't get me started)

Zagman wrote:I'd drop a Spiritseer and add a Fast Shot Avatar with Disarming Strike(Nothing like a huge chance of success as disarming force weapons).

OK Zag... here's your challenge. Find me a decent looking Avatar figure, or something I can use as an Avatar. The hair, the "head-wings", the curled hand that looks like it's got arthritis.... it's ridiculous. I can't believe they've stayed with that same, tired old figure for all these years.

Hmmm... how about using the FW wraith seer figure? I could equip it with appropriate weaponry and it would fit the theme nicely.

OK, found some points. I'd accidentally added scatter lasers onto the wraith knight. with them gone, I can add the Avatar and still have 30 points to play with.

 Gitsplitta wrote:

PredaKhaine wrote:Are you averse to forgeworld?

In principal, no. Unfortunately, none of the gaming stores in this area allow IA rules. (don't get me started)

Zagman wrote:I'd drop a Spiritseer and add a Fast Shot Avatar with Disarming Strike(Nothing like a huge chance of success as disarming force weapons).

OK Zag... here's your challenge. Find me a decent looking Avatar figure, or something I can use as an Avatar. The hair, the "head-wings", the curled hand that looks like it's got arthritis.... it's ridiculous. I can't believe they've stayed with that same, tired old figure for all these years.



Automatically Appended Next Post:



Hmmm... how about using the FW wraithseer figure? I could equip it with appropriate weaponry and it would fit the theme nicely.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Oh wait... the Avatar is 10 points too much.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Eldar/ELDAR-AVATAR.html

That is what I'm using. Forgeworld Avatar with sword or spear is pretty good. Got mine as a recast and it wasn't perfect, but better than GW's!

Darn, remembered him as 190 and Disarming Strike at 15.... yep, 10pts too much, don't worry too much about disarming strike, just kill them first!

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Eldar/ELDAR-AVATAR.html

That's the nicest avatar in my opinion.

Personally, the iyanden dex is a must for your situation! It gives you some lovely little options! Quite a few in fact!

Wraithblades have their place. I run 5 with axes and shields on foot. Seems insane but they are the personal bodyguard of my Farseer! It allows him to walk around guiding things like lords and knights! And with the iyanden dex you can take a guardian helm! Means "look out sir" is auto passed!

Have a look dude, it's worth the $ for the dex in my opinion!

Man, you guys are just too quick for me!

I discovered that I'd accidentally added a couple of scatter lasers to the wraith knight. When I pulled those off I still have 30 points to play with even with the Avatar.

The FW Avatar is better. I suppose the form of The Wailing Doom doesn't really matter. Sword or spear it's the stats that make it what it is. I think I like the spear version better. Something about the pose...

@KW: Sounds like that's the way to go. I'll check it out!

I know it's not cheap dude, considering it's just a supplement. I refused to buy it to start with, but I think it's awesome, and don't run anything but iyanden now! The fluff is really good too. And the ability for 5 spiritseers per HQ is lovely. Means I've got 2 spiritseers and a Farseer. The primarus power also allows a lot more mobility, without the traditional and in my opinion boring serpent spam!

Personally I think the avatar doesn't fit in an iyanden list. With WL and WK you have plenty of MC options. Read the fluff, and you'll be wanting spiritseers and farseers.

Hey, perhaps I'm wrong.

Nah, that's the beauty of the forum. Ask a simple question and get a half-dozen answers back... none of them wrong, just different. Allows you to sort out the best fit for yourself!

Hi Git,

Are you settled on a pure Iyanden force without allies?

Your wraithguard are nasty and scoring but costly. You are low on wounds overall. Have you thought about ally options?

If you would rather not, I would look at putting more bodies on the table. Do you face any AV14 usually? (Its becoming more popular in my area) I would consider trying to cram in a unit of FD in a serpent to take care of them.

Your list is pure murder to MEQ as it is. GEQ might give you trouble. Orks as well. Based on the current global meta though you are sitting pretty good.

Also to answer your question about Wraithblades. They are nasty as all get out. The issue is that they are expensive and can only contribute wounds for a turn or two before they get left on their own, though the short range of wraith weapons tend to do that regardless. They are not terrible and a single unit gives you some flexibility. I think a major issue is they compete with WG for the slot in this style of build and so get left behind often in favor or something that can threaten more turns due to range.

I think this army looks like a lot of fun and will be fun to build and paint. It will struggle against large model count forces and cut like a hot knife through warm butter on more elite, low model count armies.

Agree about the blades. Like I said before, I only have a squad of 5 with axes and shields as a body guard for the Farseer! With his guardian helm, it's much nice taking the wound on a t6 wraith with a 4++ rather than my warlord! Makes the seer very hard to kill! But that's the only use I have for them so far. I guess blades with swords in a serpent could be pretty dirty. Especially with a spiritseer giving them furious charge, and maybe even +1 strength if you're lucky on the runes. I think it's too many points though considering they probably won't dish out any hurt on turn 1 or 2!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's my iyanden list, adapted to fit your points cost!

Farseer + guardian helm + wraith forge stone (both iyanden artifacts)
Spiritseer - Stock
Spiritseer - Stock

5 Wraithblades - Ghostaxes
5 Wraithguard - D-Scythes, Wave serpent + TL SL, holos, SC
5 Wraithguard - Stock
5 Wraithguard - Stock
5 Wraithguard - Stock

Wraithlord - 2 lances, flamers
Wraithlord - 2 Starcannons, flamers
Wraithknight - Stock

Total 1840 points.

Let me know what you think!

Wraithguard on foot is too slow and their weapons are too short ranged. How many weapons can you bring to bear in round one?