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Why is it so hard to believe that people no longer use assault units as there no good. charging is the last thing you want to do any more

 Jimsolo wrote:
Personally I prefer Assault Terminators with a 3:2 split between hammers and claws. In a Land Raider, flavor to taste. (I prefer the Crusader.)

QFT.

You don't want everybody rockin' hammers and shield as you'll just about always be going last. Having a few claw terms helps them mop up stuff that might strike before step 1 and kill it before the hammers get to go.

Just keep them in back of the shield guys so the stormshields can soak up shots on approach (unless you're assaulting out of a raider or raven, in which case that's moot).

In terms of landraiders... sort of depends on who i'm fighting, but i'm partial to the crusader and redeemer, but i always take the meltagun option with either to assist with heavy armor when needed.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

zilka86 wrote:
My opinion was based on the fact that with the 100plus people in my gaming group i no longer see any assault units our assault army even orks run a gun list now. so yes in my gaming area assault is dead do to 6ed and gun line is king

Sorry, i don't believe a word of this.

Your gaming group has 100 people in it ?

Even if we season that with enough salt to make brine potatoes, there's not one person in that 100 that uses a single assault unit?

There's not one person that uses Grey Knight Paladins, Assault Terms, Deathwing Knights, vanguard marines, veteran marines, bikes kitted with assault weapons, banshees, scorpions, etc et etc. - ? Hyperbole, plain and simple.

Assault was brought back into line in 6th, not made dead. Now you can't just b-line across the board and Murder-Death-Kill anything in your path with reckless abandon.

It's also the most efficient way to kill models on your opponents turn. Overwatch is neat but it largely relies on your opponent charging you, and most of the time is pretty inaccurate. Not so assault - your efficiency doesn't reduce on your opponents turn (well, not counting charge bonuses, and such) and it's not reliant on him doing something to you first. Once you're in CC, you can murder the crap out of his models on his turn as well as you can yours.

If your looking for a good assault unit, check out honor guard.

They get a power weapon, a 2+ save, an extra CCW, and a bolter all for 25 points per model. That's a pretty good point cost!

Assault is where its at. My mate ALWAYS runs at least one 10 man unit of th/ss termies. Such a pain in the but to deal with them. They're just sooo hard to shift.

 Haight wrote:

Assault was brought back into line in 6th, not made dead. Now you can't just b-line across the board and Murder-Death-Kill anything in your path with reckless abandon.

This again? See my sig for standard response.

Why would any one run a assault Army when a shooty army will bet a assault army. tau eldar and ig maje up 50% of the armys 25% is marines and thers a few ork players and chaos marines guys so ever one army is shooty death gun line sit back and shot that's how 6ed is supposed be played is it not

zilka86 wrote:
Why is it so hard to believe that people no longer use assault units as there no good. charging is the last thing you want to do any more

Because assault still does work. Assaulting tau from a couple directions at once (usually out of pods) is the best way to dislodge them. Bike nobs are still fantastic, Wraiths are the backbone of a ton of non flyer spam necron army barring av13 wall. Blood hounds of khorne, flying demons, Slasnesh Cavalry....

Hell, the last two codices almost immediately have had people find a very strong assault combo or more. The eldar one gave us the Solitaire on bike with mantle, and space marines gives us both honour guard, and the Ultra tough Master on a bike with hammer and shield.

Charging is the FIRST thing you want to do if someone is stupid enough to get close with a riptide, or if you can drop down right next to a tau gunline; You're just being melodramatic and trying to stand on a soapbox for some reason by talking about the '100s of people who dont assault anymore at your club' and no one who's doing any thinking is talking you seriously.

Drop pods dont work for assault as soon you drop abd shot ther hole army will blow iu right off the board. I just say in meta ther is no assault because it just doesn't seem to work out as good as playing gun line and just keeping to ur half of the table

Its very hard to understand what you are saying, but I think you are saying that because there are guns, Close combat (assault) is dead? heh. I am sorry man, I am sorry if you have had bad times vs gunlines but I love it when my opponent sets up an immobile gun line that I get to assault. its fun, and I usually can come out on top barring bad rolls. use cover, use transports (land raiders and or storm ravens for marines if needed). multi assault is amazing vs tau, since they are all going to get to shoot you anyway

zilka86 wrote:
Drop pods dont work for assault as soon you drop abd shot ther hole army will blow iu right off the board. I just say in meta ther is no assault because it just doesn't seem to work out as good as playing gun line and just keeping to ur half of the table

Zilka, instead of hijacking the thread with a debate on the usefulness of assault in 6th, perhaps you should either offer a unit that does work, or stay out of a discussion where you refuse to see other points of view as valid (perhaps those pods are behind los-blocking terrain?) and don't have anything constructive to add.

OT- my 6th ed codex is still in the mail (was late in ordering it), but if it can get into combat, a dread will do nasty things to a unit that isn't entirely or mostly melee anti-tank.

zilka86 wrote:
Drop pods dont work for assault as soon you drop abd shot ther hole army will blow iu right off the board. I just say in meta ther is no assault because it just doesn't seem to work out as good as playing gun line and just keeping to ur half of the table

Of course you can't just hop out of Pods and expect to wreck an entire army in either shooting or CC. You need to use your first wave of pods to apply eough force in one location to set up a beachhead, then the second wave (the rest of the pods+termies/assaults/vanguard) drop in behind this, play defensive for a turn, and then assault.

I sincerely doubt there is any army that could 'blow you right off the board' within a turn if you're doing an all-out pod assault properly. You're talking up to 40 marines in your opponent's lines on T1, and the rest on T2 (up to as many as 80) that will be in effective range from the moment they enter the game. You should also be bringing your wntire army against half of their's, so they shouldn't be able to bring more than a fraction of their firepower to bear when you consider terrain, intervening units, and the use of pods to block LOS.

More to the point, this thread is explicitly asking for the best assault unit for SM, so just repeating that assault is 'dead' or 'pointless' doesn't really help. The OP is asking for opinions on what assault unit to take, no on if they should be used at all.

drop pods do not block LoS, they are practically see through once they touch down. :/

 raiden wrote:
drop pods do not block LoS, they are practically see through once they touch down. :/

You say that, but so long as you have the middle part glued in, then you can hide at least part of a squad from view at infantry level. I'm not saying you can hide the whole squad, but it can certainly limit damage by hiding 3-4 members, which could be special weapons/sgts ect. Of course, the more pods you have, the more effective this becomes, as you can try and overlap them for more blocking.

 raiden wrote:
I will agree that current meta is defiantly taudar TPS. Assault is harder but w/ LOS blocking terrain a bit of tactical placing and some luck they are not "bad'

And without LOS blocking terrain?

Martel732 wrote:

 raiden wrote:
I will agree that current meta is defiantly taudar TPS. Assault is harder but w/ LOS blocking terrain a bit of tactical placing and some luck they are not "bad'

And without LOS blocking terrain?

Then I would call the taudar a WAAC player, and concede I have seen a tau player convince someone to play him like this with CSM. it was over turn 3 as CSM had about nothing left. I still love my BA assault army but it is not effective jumping across a field w/out much terrain.

I play with randomized terrain, but some days all the LOS blocking stuff is used. Or we don't roll it. Relying on a random terrain feature sucks. This is why Starcraft got rid of all the maps that heavily favored one race over the others.

Well I feel this thread has been adequately trolled lol.

OT- I think I am going to go with a good 3:2 mix of TH/SS - LC termies. They have the staying power and with drop pods and deep strike I can get them where I need them. I also have a Stormraven and Land Raider Crusader for other matches.

I like the Honor Guard, I really do, but I don't always want to take a Chapter Master.

That sounds like a nice combo, hard-hitting and not too expensive in the grand scheme of things. All I would say is I would not advise putting them in the raven, as that's 400+ points that can be killed in one hit thanks to brutal flier explosions.

On the other hand, a LRC is far more reliable, arguably more survivable, and has good firepower, as well as allowing you to attach an IC. I'd really advocate throwing a chaplain in there with them, as you don't get as many attacks as some assault units (Vanguard, for example) so you need to make the most of each one. The re-rolls really come in handy here, and the Chaplain in no slouch in CC either.

zilka86 wrote:
Drop pods dont work for assault as soon you drop abd shot ther hole army will blow iu right off the board. I just say in meta ther is no assault because it just doesn't seem to work out as good as playing gun line and just keeping to ur half of the table

The do work, especially now that you an drop the alpha wave down and get a twin-link effect on them. You dont just drop down and twiddle your thumbs waiting to assault, you drop down the a smack, set yourself up to receive return fire and prepare some charges, then let loose with bolters.

And you also completely ignored every other example I gave.

I actually like the new VV, if you don't go crazy with the gear. Cheap SS is a plus.

I see people always say use assault termy every time i use them they are all shot down in two truns even in landraider peopl will focus on them with all ther shooting . i would like assault to work i really would so i could use my asm and vanguard but i can never get them close a nuff to assault.

That's you sucking, not assault.

Not really. I've had several games with this exact problem with 30+ FNP ASM. Taudar shoot *that* well.

I have spent over 50games trying out assault and it seems that it won't work in 6ed gunline so i mad a gun line sm army as that's the way to go. why is it so hard for people to see that this ed is all about gun lines

 davou wrote:
That's you sucking, not assault.

Assault is still really good and can remove entire units from the table just for getting a single wound, but it's hardly fair to insult players just because they don't play Daemons/play an outdated assault army/can't figure out how to successfully assault when 6E hands the game to armies like Tau when it comes to the shooting phase. Also terrain is important. If you play on Bowling Ball Primaris against a shooty army, you are not going to be able to assault easily with most armies.

zilka86 wrote:
I have spent over 50games trying out assault and it seems that it won't work in 6ed gunline so i mad a gun line sm army as that's the way to go. why is it so hard for people to see that this ed is all about gun lines

Your problem is that you're bringing your opinion here without contributing to the main topic. While it is widely agreed that shooting is somewhat stronger this edition, assault has not laid down and died. If you aren't going to add to this thread positively, you should leave it, and if you feel the need to preach your views on assault now being useless further, open up another thread instead of cluttering this one.

I've already put my opinion in here, but I will leave saying that zilka86 has a history of similar stubborn, unreasonable standpoints and improbable accounts of events. I don't wish to be an attacker, so I shall leave it at this.

zilka86 wrote:
I have spent over 50games trying out assault and it seems that it won't work in 6ed gunline so i mad a gun line sm army as that's the way to go. why is it so hard for people to see that this ed is all about gun lines

Because most of us are still assaulting and doing just fine?

Shooting is plain and simple - make sure you're in range, then roll all your dice.
Assault takes MUCH more skill and planning. Not just with the assault unit itself, but with the rest of the army as well.

That being said, this is not the first time zilka has rejected all opinions/advice. He will not listen to any of us, which begs the question why bother posting on the forums anyways?
Seriously zilka, you never listen to anybody, no matter how patient and clear we are.

ON TOPIC!
An ASM squad with a JP Chappy will rip apart anything that isn't dedicated CC. I suggest going that route, or with assault termies if you need something more hard hitting.

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:

 davou wrote:
That's you sucking, not assault.

Assault is still really good and can remove entire units from the table just for getting a single wound, but it's hardly fair to insult players just because they don't play Daemons/play an outdated assault army/can't figure out how to successfully assault when 6E hands the game to armies like Tau when it comes to the shooting phase. Also terrain is important. If you play on Bowling Ball Primaris against a shooty army, you are not going to be able to assault easily with most armies.

I'm gonna sound like a bit of a bastard here but there's no way to sugar coat it....

I suck at painting and converting, I still keep trying, but I have no illusions about it being the fault of the paints, or the models, or the humidity in my lab. Similarly, I shouldn't have to spare someone's feelings when they're clearly wrong. Its not my job to coddle someone who poorly executes their assaults, anymore than its a doctors job to coddle a heart attack victim to spare having to tell him he's fat.

I suck at painting, fat people suck at being healthy and zilka sucks at assault if he's been banging his head at it 'over 50 times' amongst a group that's '100 people diverse'. How someone fails consecutively at something they try that many times without finding some means for improval is beyond me

No, assault is pretty much a fail. Assault is contributing very little to the meta at the highest levels. Even Daemon armies are more about the gimmicks than actual assaults.

Martel732 wrote:
No, assault is pretty much a fail. Assault is contributing very little to the meta at the highest levels. Even Daemon armies are more about the gimmicks than actual assaults.

How many of us get to play in the top tables at Adepticon? Why should it matter that the top armies aren't assault heavy? And furthermore the two armies that went head to head at Duelcon were both demons with screamer star... The one that took it away however, was mixed screamer star and Dogs. The one with the heavier assault slant did better.

And again, this isn't a thread where you should come and preach about how dead assault is; Its asking about strong assault options in C:SM. Anyone who wants to fling terrible anecdotes about how many hundreds of times they've proven that assault is dead at their insanely populated club should go visit the 'assault is dead' thread that exists already, not junk up this one.

Back to topic;

Just about everything in the C:SM army can at least make use of assault to either pressure the opponents army, or else hide from shooting; but the unit that shines most at it so far seems to be the honour guard. If you aren't willing to pay the chapter master tax for it (who incidentally is another great assault unit option) then you may have to go with Vanguard Vets, or look into the FW character that makes assault marines scoring.