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 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Seems kinda reasonable...

Reasonable like justified or something else?

Reasonable as in I can understand why they did that...

I think it'd be funny if they didn't get new EBT money until their balance was clear. In which case i would hope people didn't buy things that were perishable.

 purplefood wrote:

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Seems kinda reasonable...

Reasonable like justified or something else?

Reasonable as in I can understand why they did that...

I understand stockholm syndrome, doesn't make it reasonable. But I guess this is one of those word/definition arguments.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

That just sounds like a horrible Logistical problem. What if the food is not delivered on time? What is no one is there to recieve it and it gets taken if left on the doorstep? Who will deliver it? A new delivery service? Because the USPS isnt going to deliver hundred of boxes of food.
Just limit what you an buy with the card 10% junkfood, 30-40% fresh produce etc etc

USPS already delievers hundreds of boxes of food to peoples doors, its called Nutrisystem and if the USPS gets a Dam box to deliver well its their dam job to do so. that covers rural areas, Now for the large cities. Every Grocery store chain now delivers to peoples houses. Bam done you split the city into regions based around said chains and every week a weeks worth of food is delivered to the people from their closest store. If you cannot be there to pick it up head to the grocery store and pick up the box yourself.

While the above is a very very simplified version it does address some key issues.
A) People on EBT shouldn't be buying junk food, but nothing is in place to stop them, this removes the choice that they get in buying certain foodsif you want to eat Gak thats bad for you, you pay with your own cash not the tax payers
B) People are given the proper portions of healthy food each week, Help maintain a healthier US population. Healthier population = High possibility of lowering health insurance costs.


Screw it. How about we turn everyone on EBT onto nutrisystem. Everyone gets premade meals, Everyone gets the proper meal sizes, Everyone (on EBT) loses weight

What about people that do not want to eat all those vegetables and produce? And what is "Healthy" I think the current system is fine. Also what is the definition of "Junk Food" is jelly and peanut butter Junk food? Are Tortilla chips? What about sweets? Or do poor people not allowed sweets.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
What about people that do not want to eat all those vegetables and produce? And what is "Healthy" I think the current system is fine. Also what is the definition of "Junk Food" is jelly and peanut butter Junk food? Are Tortilla chips? What about sweets? Or do poor people not allowed sweets.

The current system is not fine, having worked as a cashier at a safeway over half of the people on EBT would ring up the same dam items every week, ~$200 of doritos, Coke/pepsi, digiorno/tombstone pizzas, oreos (so many dam oreos), 4.5 qts tubs of ice cream. After that i'd ring up their 24pack of pabst blue ribbon or Budwiser and then tell them "have a nice day". They would proceed over to the Customers service desk and buy 1-2 cartons of cigarettes and a few lottery tickets with the cash they had on them. (With EBT you can buy any food item that isnt, Hot, Alcohol, or tobacco)

Now is that everyone on EBT? heck no, there were people on it who actually bought healthy food with it for them and their family.

If people on EBT want to eat junk food they can spend their own cash on it and not tax payers cash.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Anyone exploiting this should be punished by a restriction on their card over time until the full amount + a % is balanced out to the working people of nation.

The cards have names on, so that shouldn't be an issue. They will need to endure a hardship due to their greed and lack of honesty.

For the good of the nation-state and it's productive citizens.

I concur... but, alas, it'll never happen.

 Ninjacommando wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
What about people that do not want to eat all those vegetables and produce? And what is "Healthy" I think the current system is fine. Also what is the definition of "Junk Food" is jelly and peanut butter Junk food? Are Tortilla chips? What about sweets? Or do poor people not allowed sweets.

The current system is not fine, having worked as a cashier at a safeway over half of the people on EBT would ring up the same dam items every week, ~$200 of doritos, Coke/pepsi, digiorno/tombstone pizzas, oreos (so many dam oreos), 4.5 qts tubs of ice cream. After that i'd ring up their 24pack of pabst blue ribbon or Budwiser and then tell them "have a nice day". They would proceed over to the Customers service desk and buy 1-2 cartons of cigarettes and a few lottery tickets with the cash they had on them. (With EBT you can buy any food item that isnt, Hot, Alcohol, or tobacco)

Now is that everyone on EBT? heck no, there were people on it who actually bought healthy food with it for them and their family.

If people on EBT want to eat junk food they can spend their own cash on it and not tax payers cash.

And your solution is the force what type of food you want them to eat on them?

 Ninjacommando wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
What about people that do not want to eat all those vegetables and produce? And what is "Healthy" I think the current system is fine. Also what is the definition of "Junk Food" is jelly and peanut butter Junk food? Are Tortilla chips? What about sweets? Or do poor people not allowed sweets.

The current system is not fine, having worked as a cashier at a safeway over half of the people on EBT would ring up the same dam items every week, ~$200 of doritos, Coke/pepsi, digiorno/tombstone pizzas, oreos (so many dam oreos), 4.5 qts tubs of ice cream. After that i'd ring up their 24pack of pabst blue ribbon or Budwiser and then tell them "have a nice day". They would proceed over to the Customers service desk and buy 1-2 cartons of cigarettes and a few lottery tickets with the cash they had on them. (With EBT you can buy any food item that isnt, Hot, Alcohol, or tobacco)

Now is that everyone on EBT? heck no, there were people on it who actually bought healthy food with it for them and their family.

If people on EBT want to eat junk food they can spend their own cash on it and not tax payers cash.

You bring up a good point but I want to point something out.

Junk food is by and large cheaper than "healthy" food. It also keeps for longer. If you still work at Safeway, I want you to take that same price and try to get it done with healthy food and healthy food alone.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Ninjacommando wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
What about people that do not want to eat all those vegetables and produce? And what is "Healthy" I think the current system is fine. Also what is the definition of "Junk Food" is jelly and peanut butter Junk food? Are Tortilla chips? What about sweets? Or do poor people not allowed sweets.

The current system is not fine, having worked as a cashier at a safeway over half of the people on EBT would ring up the same dam items every week, ~$200 of doritos, Coke/pepsi, digiorno/tombstone pizzas, oreos (so many dam oreos), 4.5 qts tubs of ice cream. After that i'd ring up their 24pack of pabst blue ribbon or Budwiser and then tell them "have a nice day". They would proceed over to the Customers service desk and buy 1-2 cartons of cigarettes and a few lottery tickets with the cash they had on them. (With EBT you can buy any food item that isnt, Hot, Alcohol, or tobacco)

Now is that everyone on EBT? heck no, there were people on it who actually bought healthy food with it for them and their family.

If people on EBT want to eat junk food they can spend their own cash on it and not tax payers cash.

You bring up a good point but I want to point something out.

Junk food is by and large cheaper than "healthy" food. It also keeps for longer. If you still work at Safeway, I want you to take that same price and try to get it done with healthy food and healthy food alone.

I'd be okay with the system being more expensive if EBT absolutely enforces "health choices". I would even posit that over the long haul, it'd be cheaper due to lower healthcare costs associated with obesity.

But, then again, how would you even research something like this over the long haul. o.O

 Kanluwen wrote:

You bring up a good point but I want to point something out.

Junk food is by and large cheaper than "healthy" food. It also keeps for longer. If you still work at Safeway, I want you to take that same price and try to get it done with healthy food and healthy food alone.

When I worked at safeway I pretty much ate the following every day with no deviation from it.
for breakfeast
2 Glucerna vinilla shakes with frozen strawberries in a blender for roughly 500 calories (AMAZING)
1 Orange mango Naked juice (i forget but i believe it was between 300-400 calories)
Snack
Fruit cup (100 calories)
Lunch
$2-3 safeway salad usually caesar ~300 calories
Snack
Fruit cup (100 calories)
Dinner
$2-3 safeway salad usually caesar ~300 calories

Total cost came to around ~$82 dollars a week with tax (10% off because i was an employee so roughly $91 regularly).

While the above it not that great it still far better than eatting Doritos, Frozen pizza, and coke 24/7.

 Ninjacommando wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

You bring up a good point but I want to point something out.

Junk food is by and large cheaper than "healthy" food. It also keeps for longer. If you still work at Safeway, I want you to take that same price and try to get it done with healthy food and healthy food alone.

When I worked at safeway I pretty much ate the following every day with no deviation from it.
for breakfeast
2 Glucerna vinilla shakes with frozen strawberries in a blender for roughly 500 calories (AMAZING)
1 Orange mango Naked juice (i forget but i believe it was between 300-400 calories)
Snack
Fruit cup (100 calories)
Lunch
$2-3 safeway salad usually caesar ~300 calories
Snack
Fruit cup (100 calories)
Dinner
$2-3 safeway salad usually caesar ~300 calories

Total cost came to around ~$82 dollars a week with tax (10% off because i was an employee so roughly $91 regularly).

While the above it not that great it still far better than eatting Doritos, Frozen pizza, and coke 24/7.

That's $91 a week for a single person, is it not?

You're right in that your stuff is healthier, but it would be very difficult for a family of four to have that same kind of 'meal plan' for around $200. It's $364 for a family of 4 at $91.

That is you, now imagine, Oh maybe 3 kids?

 Kanluwen wrote:
That's $91 a week for a single person, is it not?

You're right in that your stuff is healthier, but it would be very difficult for a family of four to have that same kind of 'meal plan' for around $200. It's $364 for a family of 4 at $91.

You can do the above with healthy items at a grocery, as there are coupons for said items and if you go online you can go to certain websites and get even more coupons. While there are many unhealthy items on that person basket, if you saved your coupons for Frozen vegtables along with large bags of boneless/skinless chicken breasts you can save alot of money on those items and use your remaining EBT cash for Fresh fruits.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
That is you, now imagine, Oh maybe 3 kids?

Agesof the kids? if one is under the age of 5 I can enroll in the WIC program to get food for said child. that leaves 1 adult (myself) and 2 kid, I could cover this with some searching online. there are places that accept EBT and are Bulk buy.

 Ninjacommando wrote:
You can do the above with healthy items at a grocery, as there are coupons for said items and if you go online you can go to certain websites and get even more coupons. (i know its funny because they have 3 1 gallon things of ice cream but eh its extreme couponing)

Just remember that getting all those coupons takes time, and the people most likely to need them are the least likely to have the time. For example, a single parent working multiple jobs just to pay their bills isn't going to have time to spend hours looking for every possible way to save a bit of money.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ninjacommando wrote:
You can do the above with healthy items at a grocery, as there are coupons for said items and if you go online you can go to certain websites and get even more coupons. (i know its funny because they have 3 1 gallon things of ice cream but eh its extreme couponing)

Just remember that getting all those coupons takes time, and the people most likely to need them are the least likely to have the time. For example, a single parent working multiple jobs just to pay their bills isn't going to have time to spend hours looking for every possible way to save a bit of money.

If i could save 95%+ on my grocery bill i'd make time.

but thats why I suggest just having everything premade and delivered to them, saving them time and gives the people healthy food.

 Ninjacommando wrote:
If i could save 95%+ on my grocery bill i'd make time.

It's hard to make time when you barely have enough hours in the day for work and other essential things. Not everyone has enough free time to post on gaming forums.

but thats why I suggest just having everything premade and delivered to them, saving them time and gives the people healthy food.

As pointed out already that idea has serious problems with logistics. You can't just magically teleport groceries to everyone who needs them, and building a delivery system is going to cost a lot of money compared to just using the existing grocery stores.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ninjacommando wrote:
If i could save 95%+ on my grocery bill i'd make time.

It's hard to make time when you barely have enough hours in the day for work and other essential things. Not everyone has enough free time to post on gaming forums.

but thats why I suggest just having everything premade and delivered to them, saving them time and gives the people healthy food.

As pointed out already that idea has serious problems with logistics. You can't just magically teleport groceries to everyone who needs them, and building a delivery system is going to cost a lot of money compared to just using the existing grocery stores.

Everything that is required already exists, How do you think grovery stores get supplies in the first place?, every grocery store in all of the cities i lived in already have delivery programs or they use Local services such as peapod, etc. Getting sent bulk shipments of premade meal for the Grocery stores to deliever or for the people to go pick them up themselves is already inplace. If the Grocery store doesn't have room they can leave the refrigerated trailer out back and pluged in (ever been to a honey baked ham co during the holidays? they do this all the time).

 Ninjacommando wrote:
Everything that is required already exists, How do you think grovery stores get supplies in the first place?

By a truck that drives directly to the store. You don't seriously think that's a viable option for getting small packages to a lot of houses spread out all over a city, do you?

every grocery store in all of the cities i lived in already have delivery programs or they use Local services such as peapod, etc.

And guess what: that costs money.

Getting sent bulk shipments of premade meal for the Grocery stores to deliever or for the people to go pick them up themselves is already inplace.

So how much are you willing to pay to have the grocery store prepare these meals, store/deliver them, manage the inventory system, etc? Like many proposals for "welfare reform" you're going to very easily reach the point where you're losing money just so you can tell people how to run their lives.

If the Grocery store doesn't have room they can leave the refrigerated trailer out back and pluged in.

So now you're willing to pay the grocery store extra money to keep a refrigerated trailer running 24/7? How exactly is this more efficient than just giving people money to spend normally at the grocery store?

 Ninjacommando wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ninjacommando wrote:
You can do the above with healthy items at a grocery, as there are coupons for said items and if you go online you can go to certain websites and get even more coupons. (i know its funny because they have 3 1 gallon things of ice cream but eh its extreme couponing)

Just remember that getting all those coupons takes time, and the people most likely to need them are the least likely to have the time. For example, a single parent working multiple jobs just to pay their bills isn't going to have time to spend hours looking for every possible way to save a bit of money.

If i could save 95%+ on my grocery bill i'd make time.

but thats why I suggest just having everything premade and delivered to them, saving them time and gives the people healthy food.

I'm sorry, but you do seem to be divorced from the reality of what it is to be poor. Truly poor and struggling.

I do agree that some people do live on junk food when they are poor when they do not need to, but as often as not that is down to lack of education than lazyness. They just don't know how to cook. Not that they cannot be botherd to find out, but that they have never had to cook and have never learnt the basics so do not understand what can be done.

People at this level who are trying to work just do not have the time. Yes, you can save money, but to do that you need to buy the magazines, news papers, etc. You need time to find the coupons and you need the education to best exploit them. These are things that many people just do not have. When someone is working 60 hour + weeks and looking after kids there is just not time.

Also, $91 on food? For one person? Thats about £60. Me and my wife spend £80 a week, and we do not need to save money and eat well. In the UK Job Seekers allowance is £57 a week. I think in the US food stamps are something around $35 per person per week on average. Living on that is not easy.

On the delivery thing, I don't know about the US, but in the UK getting food diliverd is a luxury. You get charged extra for it, either through a direct charge or through higher prices. This would become a tax payer footed bill. On top of this you have to wait in for the delivery. Fine when you are middle class stay at home mum. Not so much when you are working 6 days a week.

Also taking away the choice and just giving people box of food, making them different, and removing them from normal society. It causes even more social division.

People in droves were taking advantage of Walmart in Louisiana when it said it would let them have food despite the outage:

http://gma.yahoo.com/walmart-shelves-emptied-food-stamp-shopping-spree-171042474--abc-news-topstories.html

These are the ones who are going to screw it up for those in real need, and as I said in the other thread, give rise to the stories of welfare kings and queens.
You know this food was getting sold at a cut rate, unless they have big cupboards and freezers at home that can hold 8 carts worth of food.

Relapse wrote:
These are the ones who are going to screw it up for those in real need, and as I said in the other thread, give rise to the stories of welfare kings and queens.

Not really. Stories of "welfare kings and queens" exist because of conservative ideology, nothing more. The whole concept is a deliberate attempt to present rare abuses by a minority as representative of the majority and provide justification for cutting welfare programs that conservatives are typically opposed to. If not for that deliberate misrepresentation incidents like this would rarely go beyond the "wow, people are crazy" section of the local news.

 Peregrine wrote:

Relapse wrote:
These are the ones who are going to screw it up for those in real need, and as I said in the other thread, give rise to the stories of welfare kings and queens.

Not really. Stories of "welfare kings and queens" exist because of conservative ideology, nothing more. The whole concept is a deliberate attempt to present rare abuses by a minority as representative of the majority and provide justification for cutting welfare programs that conservatives are typically opposed to. If not for that deliberate misrepresentation incidents like this would rarely go beyond the "wow, people are crazy" section of the local news.

This is the same argument that people bring up with voter fraud. Well, it doesn't happen that much, so why worry about it? It simply follows more with voter fraud because the percentage is considerably lower and doesn't come from a system subsidized by tax payers.

But then again, I fall under the no name brands, no junk food camp of how the SNAP and EBT programs should work.

So if im on welfare, I cant enjoy a nice Pepsi once and awhile?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So if im on welfare, I cant enjoy a nice Pepsi once and awhile?

How about a beer?

Depending upon the beer, it's probably healthier for you.

the "No Name Brands and "No junk food" Is just stupid. you are trying to control what you put in people bodies. A case of soda is going to cost the same no matter the brand. Also how do you conclude what "Name Brand" means.

By the same argument, you should be able to buy paper products with EBT.

After all, if you have the right to enjoy a Pepsi using government assistance funds, surely you have the right to wipe your ass with them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the opposite end of the crazy spectrum, my mom was appalled back in the 90s when they moved away from food stamps. Apparently using things resembling credit cards "gave too much dignity to people who needed food stamps," thus, "giving them little incentive to try to get off of them".

Yes... I'm what passes for the liberal black sheep in my family. :(

 cincydooley wrote:
This is the same argument that people bring up with voter fraud. Well, it doesn't happen that much, so why worry about it? It simply follows more with voter fraud because the percentage is considerably lower and doesn't come from a system subsidized by tax payers.

You're right, it's exactly the same. A rare event is blown completely out of proportion for ideological reasons and then used to justify "solutions" to an imaginary problem. I wish I could remember the details, but one state recently discovered that they were spending more money on trying to prevent fraud than they were losing to that fraud. If that's not a case of "don't worry about it" I don't know what is.

But then again, I fall under the no name brands, no junk food camp of how the SNAP and EBT programs should work.

That would be another one of those bad ideas where it would probably cost more to implement than the amount of "waste". Defining "name brands" and "junk food" is a hopeless mess, and I don't see any clear benefit that justifies getting into that mess.

Yeah, IS Shasta A name brand? Or how About Squirt? What if they are owned by a name brand?

 Peregrine wrote:

Relapse wrote:
These are the ones who are going to screw it up for those in real need, and as I said in the other thread, give rise to the stories of welfare kings and queens.

Not really. Stories of "welfare kings and queens" exist because of conservative ideology, nothing more. The whole concept is a deliberate attempt to present rare abuses by a minority as representative of the majority and provide justification for cutting welfare programs that conservatives are typically opposed to. If not for that deliberate misrepresentation incidents like this would rarely go beyond the "wow, people are crazy" section of the local news.

Not really what? You don't think people against food stamps aren't going to look at this and run with it? I pretty much have a good idea of the type of people that did this. They're the same kind I used to see on Canal street in New Orleans going along with the copper pipe they stripped out of the bottom of someone's house and selling it to the scrap metal places.
As I said, because of that type, the rest of people needing food stamps are going to get the usual unfair crap thrown at them.

Relapse wrote:
Not really what?

Not really, as in "welfare kings and queens" isn't a story because of people like this. It's a story because of people who will hold up very rare examples of abuse as representatives of welfare in general. Without the need for certain conservatives to manufacture a "welfare is bad" argument looting like this wouldn't screw it up for anyone else because they'd be punished appropriately and that would be the end of it.

And to be clear, I'm not justifying their actions at all. That was theft, plain and simple. All I'm saying is the blame for "making people look bad" lies with the people manufacturing outrage, not a few random thieves and scammers.