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Nope you lost Jy2, and lost badly, no matter what you say. It's one thing to miscount VPs and change a result afterwards as this is not changeable, but anything could still have happened after the Jinx was failed, you could have rolled nothing but ones in theory for all your effected models after they didn't die. Rules mistakes were made by both of you, which were only caught afterwards, therefore you have to count them as unfortunate mistakes, and resolve to do them right next time. If I lost a model/unit and found out next turn the rules meant I should still have it in play, I wouldn't put it back on the table. You can say what you like, but I'm sure I won't be the only one who sees your report as a comprehensive loss.

I've got to highly agree with The Shadow King here. You are changing this on extremely biased speculation of the remainder of the game, post game. Anyone can play what ifs. It's a friendly. Admit you lost, move on, declare a rematch, etc.

That's fine. You can view it as my loss. I don't, but it's ok to disagree with me.

It's like a running back in football who makes it into the endzone....only to have his touchdown redacted because his offensive lineman committed a foul (a facemask).

I am not being biased. Look at my past reports in my link a few posts above. I don't care who makes the mistake, but the person to make that game-changing mistake first is the one who is penalized. Namely, out of my 4 reversals, 3 of them were infractions on my part and thusly, I was penalized in my own reports. I am only being consistent with my past rulings.

 jy2 wrote:
That's fine. You can view it as my loss. I don't, but it's ok to disagree with me.

It's like a running back in football who makes it into the endzone....only to have his touchdown redacted because his offensive lineman committed a foul (a facemask).

I am not being biased. Look at my past reports in my link above. I don't care who makes the mistake, but the person to make that game-changing mistake first is the one who is penalized. Namely, out of my 4 reversals, 3 of them were infractions on my part and thusly, I was penalized in my own reports. I am only being consistent with my past rulings.

Sorry, but this is not how it works in professional sports, so your analogy is wrong.

If you made that call at the moment, no one would argue with you, as in professional sports.

Nevermind wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
That's fine. You can view it as my loss. I don't, but it's ok to disagree with me.

It's like a running back in football who makes it into the endzone....only to have his touchdown redacted because his offensive lineman committed a foul (a facemask).

I am not being biased. Look at my past reports in my link above. I don't care who makes the mistake, but the person to make that game-changing mistake first is the one who is penalized. Namely, out of my 4 reversals, 3 of them were infractions on my part and thusly, I was penalized in my own reports. I am only being consistent with my past rulings.

Sorry, but this is not how it works in professional sports, so your analogy is wrong.

If you made that call at the moment, no one would argue with you, as in professional sports.

Doesn't change the fact that it is my battle report, my rules and my call. You don't have to agree with it, but then again, I'm not looking at your (the audience's) validation of my decision.

Sorry, that's the way I'm ruling it.

Speaking for myself I think the reason this wreaks a bit is because it is one thing to redact your own win because you feel you cheated someone a bit, that's noble.

Its by far and away different to sully an opponents time in the sun weeks after a game by saying it didn't count because of your own justifications and not theirs.

Either way I just wanted to throw that out there for you. As you said you play it as you like, I am sure the English wish they could redact Argentina's Cup when Maradona pulled the "hand of God."

I think some people need to calm down.

I agree with jy2 declaring this match a draw, but feel he needs to also emphasize his mistake with the Mindstrikes as well. The report should not in their appropriate sections the rules mistakes and be adjusted accordingly even if the Mindstrike mistake came after the LD mistake.

I do not doubt that if the only mistake made int he game was jy2 firing the Mindstrikes that he would declare it a draw, even if he had won. He has set a precedent for such things.

The game was effectively won Turn 2 with a pretty significant rules blunder(Small mistake with huge consequences), that needs to be noted and the outcome of the game could have been very different. I doubt we would have seen 7 Paladins, Coteaz, and Driago die that round. The loss of Warlord, the ability to manipulate reserves, and effectively jy2's mainstay unit was the deciding factor in that match.

As to what may have happened in the past at a tournament, mistakes do happen and if it wasn't caught at the time you can't go back and change it. If both players and or TO miss a rules query at that time, its how it gets played, you usually only outright reverse cheating and illegal lists of which that was not.

Ultimately this blog is yours and everyone is entitled to their opinions...
I had a recent tourney where we misread the rules and I caught it later for primary - it would have meant the difference of a minor loss to a minor victory, but I did not say anything. It was how it was played at the time. It was a fun game and it sucked we did not score it correctly but that is the way it happened. When playing a fun match up I think who wins or loses matters even less. Mistakes were made on both sides of this battle. I think the high road is to say, "yeah I lost, but I will get him next time and I will be more prepared with the rules." I think crying foul at this time just looks a little bad. As gamers we are all very proud of our accomplishments in this game because it takes so much of our time and we want acknowledgement for things we do with little plastic and metal soldiers, but when it comes down to it we are all on the same page, we want to have fun and spend time with people who share our passions and can laugh and remember the glory and the poor rolls with us.
Just my 2 cents

And why must I hold myself to a different standard than to my opponents? Why is it that when I make a games-changing mistake, I must rescind my victories but then when my opponent makes it, he gets to keep it? I have shown by precedent that I have over-turned certain results before, and I am doing it this time to maintain consistency with my rulings. There is no double-standards here, people. I have given you my reasons for what I do, whether you agree or not. There is also no high-road or low-road to me, and frankly, I really don't care if I win or not in a casual game. What is most important to me is that I play my games consistently and make my rulings as consistently as I can. This is what you can expect in my reports. I make a mistake, I will admit to it. But if others make a mistake as well, I will hold them accountable for it, especially in the case that it affects the game significantly.

I agree with jy2 here. All he is doing is declaring his own opinion in his own battle report. There is no doubt that Jinx failing to go off would have altered the game drastically, and if jy2 feels that this invalidates the following turns then he is perfectly entitled to change his report.

Right. Basically, I am just holding my opponent to the same high standards that I hold myself. There is no favoritism here nor are there any pity games. If there is an infraction made in the game to such a degree that it would have significantly altered the course of the game, then I believe the party responsible should be penalized, whether it be me or my opponent. The mistake made here was grave enough that it significantly impacted the rest of the game, and thus, I had no other recourse than to declare the game a No Contest (or if the mistake gave my opponent a tie when he would have otherwise lost, then I would have declared this game a loss for him).

Yeah, people definitely need to calm down. If you don't like the report you don't have to read it.

Don't worry guys.

There is already a rematch in the making....today. I shall prove once and for all that the paladins are no push-over. Muahahahaha.....

Should be interesting to see if the mission changes the odds.

We will be playing at 2500 and the only changes to my list is -1 warding stave and +2 psyfleman dreads.

We just had a rematch yesterday.

We were playing BAO scenarios with Purge the Alien as primary and the Scouring as secondary. Unfortunately, he had the 2 3-pt objectives in his deployment zone whereas I had a 1 & 2-pt objective in mine.

We played at 2500 and I just added 2 psyfleman dreads and dropped 1 warding stave.

Grant added this super-good and super-nasty Forge World character. Jeez, what the heck is FW thinking with some of these characters? He has this special ability that forces enemy units within 12" who are forced to take LD tests take it with 3D6 dice. He then hit me with a combo that totally caught me with my pants down....the FW character plus the Crucible of Malediction! That's a 3D6 LD test for my psykers or removed from play!

He also added 3x2 shadow weaver support gun batteries and dropped 2 warlocks to fit everything in.

I didn't even get to fire my mindstrike missiles once because his seer council was always in combat.

It was a rough game.


Unfortunately, I won't be doing a battle report on this one.


But fortunately for you, Frontline Gaming will be doing a videorep of it!


Stay tuned....


P.S. Oh, and yeah, he did get Fortune.

Gah jy2 why cant you have your opponents roll all 1s for their saves like I do?

As to 'changing the game outcome' I think these battlereports are more useful for the learning points they provide than the actual game outcome. Its definitely good to know that you cant use the farseers ld to cast powers from a lock though.

 Talore wrote:
Yeah, people definitely need to calm down. If you don't like the report you don't have to read it.

I have said this in many threads but never headed..

As for previous posts I only state it is better to take the high road. If you want to cry foul to look like an awesome player.. No one can stop anyone from doing this. I enjoy reading people's battle reports to learn things and be entertained. We are all here because we love this hobby. Cheers and good luck on the rematch

thanatos67 wrote:
Gah jy2 why cant you have your opponents roll all 1s for their saves like I do?

As to 'changing the game outcome' I think these battlereports are more useful for the learning points they provide than the actual game outcome. Its definitely good to know that you cant use the farseers ld to cast powers from a lock though.

Yeah, I write my reports more to inform the readers as well as to entertain. Honestly, it doesn't really matter to me whether I win or lose. I care more that we play fairly and consistently.


As for our rematch, there were some wonky dice in it. Between my 10-man paladinstar and 5-man unit, I have 9 Nemesis force hammers. For the life of me, I couldn't even kill 1 single warlock in close-combat with them (he made every single Fortuned save in cc). However, instead I managed to kill 3 Fortuned warlocks with non-Prescienced Overwatch from my smaller 5-man paladin unit. Go figure.

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
I have said this in many threads but never headed..

As for previous posts I only state it is better to take the high road. If you want to cry foul to look like an awesome player.. No one can stop anyone from doing this. I enjoy reading people's battle reports to learn things and be entertained. We are all here because we love this hobby. Cheers and good luck on the rematch

I often do take the high road as long as my opponent isn't being a jerk. I oftentimes let them redo stuff or do stuff that they forget, and I even let them do it in tournament play. I once even let my opponent proxy his space marines as imperial guardsmen in tournament play because he forget to bring his guardsmen (and he ended up beating me).

What I care most is that we play fairly. And fairly usually means that we play consistently. That means I treat my opponent exactly the same as I would treat myself. If I make a huge mistake, I will penalize myself for it. I will also do the same for my opponent. I hold him to the same standards as I do myself. To me, this isn't an issue of being gracious or feeling sorry for an opponent or feeling that I need an advantage. Whatever I decide, I always ask myself first, would I hold myself accountable for this error as well (and is it a big enough error that it would alter the course of the game)? If the answer is yes, then I'm sorry. My opponent will get no leniency from me because I wouldn't even give myself leniency for making this mistake. That is what it means to be fair. You treat both you and your opponent equally.