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Please do vote for Proxie Models with this grant. It is very important to him and if he is able to get this grant, the stuff he will be able to do will be amazing.

It also looks like the Defiance podcast that was going to explain the situation is not happening this week after all. I can't say I am surprised. So in the meantime, go buy some containers during our sale and vote for Proxie to get that grant. Go on already. There isn't anything more here for you at the moment.

The planned podcast was likely dropepd as this inconvenient thing called the truth managed to get in the way. Their spin machine is on the blink from overuse this week, but once it's up and running again I'm sure we'll get that podcast in no time

 paulson games wrote:
The planned podcast was likely dropepd as this inconvenient thing called the truth managed to get in the way. Their spin machine is on the blink from overuse this week, but once it's up and running again I'm sure we'll get that podcast in no time

"Spin machine"? The people currently running DG may well be over their heads, probably unsuited to running this sort of business, and possibly even incompetent, but I doubt they carry that level of malice.

Well, the lack of a "spin machine" has caused them to delete the remaining thread on FB about the current happenings. Thank the Internet for forums!

Shepherd23 wrote:
Well, the lack of a "spin machine" has caused them to delete the remaining thread on FB about the current happenings. Thank the Internet for forums!

I still think that the term "spin machine" ascribes a level of malice aforethought that makes them sound like the GOP/DNC/Tea Party (choose the political machine you prefer to dislike) rather than the fly-by-night operation they really are.

I just read some of the comments on the kick starter page. Defiance really needs to level with these folks. They put up $46,000 and deserve more than silence. Be honest and tell them the situation. It might not be pretty, but it beats being left in the dark.

Hello, there have been accusations regarding Defiance Games and it's business practices with outside contractors. I am not going to go into details here on Facebook as this is not the place for that sort of thing. I will be making a statement on this issue on our forums and in our next podcast.
People that know me, know me as a man of great integrity and honesty. Nobody is being deceived or kept from being paid as long as I'm running things. I will leave it at that. Look for my statement on this matter next week. Thank you

-Gary

12 days and counting... still no podcast. They deleated comments on Facebook rather than face their dirty laundry. It doesn't surprise me that there's also no communication on the KS page, that'd imply they possess a spine and sense of accountability.

Seems the web site is acting up, at least for me.

The site is running as normal, just no updates on any front. There was a Facebook post promising a ks update, but that hasn't happened yet, either.

I am wondering how the kick starter backers are feeling. I know of 2 lawsuits in the works, and there are probably others as well coming. Once you stop being a turnip people start expecting money.

Looks like a substantial portion of the funding is going to go in legal fees and paying off old debts. I am not involved in the lawsuits, I took one for the team to try and save the people who walked blindly in to the trap. Maybe my losses were in vain. It is simply going to be a miracle if this ends well.

For the record, I have not even gotten a thank you e-mail from Defiance after writing off their debts. They are still selling the charity items I donated to them.

Again, as a a backer, I would prefer to see you paid. I'm not happy with Defiance games, and getting new shinies from them won't fix that, whereas paying their debts to some of my favorite miniatures makers would improve my mood.

kenofyork wrote:
They are still selling the charity items I donated to them.

Ken they stole those items and you decided not to keep chasing after them. Saying it's a charity item is far too forgiving and makes it sound like you intentionally gave them those items upfront (which you didn't). They stole from you, so you don't need to sugar coat it. People need to take their blinders off and just see Defiance for what they are, a poorly run company that's taken to scamming their creditors and refusing to pay their bills.

It seems that there's a lot of people in denial about what's going to happen to their KS fund, they still want to trust Defiance but the writing has been on the wall for a couple weeks and there's no chance they'll see their money or product. Defiance was a house of cards that everyone kept wanting to pile more faith onto, ignoring all the failures in the past and unfortunately it's at full collapse point and everyone loses. Don't keep trying to prop it up.

kenofyork wrote:
For the record, I have not even gotten a thank you e-mail from Defiance after writing off their debts.

While I understand the frustration, when do thieves ever have the decency to thank the victims they steal from?



.

Thanking you would be admitting to wrong doing. No way their lawyer lets that happen.

We're closing in on a month since Defiance stated they''d reveal what's going and and yet still no podcast.....


Looks like there has been another "re-organization" within Defiance and Tony is once again back in charge. (surprise, surprise) Which indicates that the change of ownership was simply a smokescreen for the KS and many had been predicting.

Considering that there are at least two companies seeking legal action against Defiance it seems like there's going to be a snowballs chance in hell of people seeing their hardsuits as Tony has his hands on the the reins yet again and at least one of the four has left the sinking ship.


From Defiance's own forum:





http://defiancegames.com/forum/defiance-games-general-discussion/11417-attn-defiance-games-is-under-new-management#12258



If you contributed money to their KS campaign I'd highly suggest you get ahold of your credit card company immediately and request to reverse the charge, otherwise you'll be out your money. Do not waste time emailing defiance about asking for a refund as they will stall and delay things until it is too late, go directly to your bank or credit service.

Well, poop.


When I went in I was just hoping for Raging Heroes scale douchebaggery and not full blown criminality.

Raging Heroes has a history of delivering, Defiance games has a history of not delivering.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Raging Heroes has a history of delivering, Defiance games has a history of not delivering.

I notice you didn't add 'on time' to the Raging Hereos comment :-D

Yes, a source that wishes to remain nameless (and I can't vouch for their credibility either, so salt if you wish) has confirmed that Tony was always in charge.

On top of that, and the alleged lawsuits, there is internal conflict for the control of Defiance.

Source says that the KS money is gone or will be in short order.

Maybe this plays into our confirmation bias about the company, but it certainly sounds plausible. And not even a PM will get me to reveal that source. I was trusted with this information, I shall be worthy of that trust.

It was a 30$ ill spent.

fullheadofhair wrote:I notice you didn't add 'on time' to the Raging Hereos comment :-D

That was in purpose
But their delay was always in acceptable time scales.
And their products far superior to anything tha Defiance Games claimed to produce.

Mathieu Raymond wrote:Source says that the KS money is gone or will be in short order.

Maybe this plays into our confirmation bias about the company, but it certainly sounds plausible. And not even a PM will get me to reveal that source. I was trusted with this information, I shall be worthy of that trust.

It was a 30$ ill spent.

Well, now you can concentrate on buying those fabulous Titans by Daniel Mandelbaum

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
On top of that, and the alleged lawsuits, there is internal conflict for the control of Defiance.

Source says that the KS money is gone or will be in short order.

I can imagine...
"You're in charge!"
"No, you're in charge!"
"This company is too incredible to have anyone but YOU at the helm!"
"Ridiculous, only YOU can steer this ship towards further success!"
(extended slap fight ensues)

My guess is that "Tony stepping down" was a complete fabrication to get people to throw in on the kickstarter as they normally wouldn't risk it knowing he was in charge. I've also got $5 riding on the bet that they will use the company re-re-organization to dodge paying their new bills. They used this excuse not to pay Proxie, their excuse came down to sorry debts made with "the old owner/Tony" don't transfer. Now they'll dodge out on all of the debts from the KS by saying well those were debts and obligations "made under Gary not Tony" so we don't owe anyone gak cause he's no longer in charge.

You cannot simply dismiss debts by switching around the figurehead of a company, for a registered business the only way to dismiss those debts is to go through bankruptcy. Otherwise every company on earth would simply rack up as much debts as they wanted then fire the owner or president to get a clean slate. Furthermore somebody's imbezzlement from company funds doesn't give you a free pass to declare the company's debts null and void. As much as Defiance wants to shift the blame and debts around with management it won't hold up in court as the debts are assumed by the company not the individual that works there.

But it is entirely legal (under UK law, and I don't think US differs wildly in this regard) to form a new company, with a subtly different name, and then proceed to sell all your assets to them, while leaving the debts with the old company.

Not saying they've done this, and god help me if they're lurking and I've given them ideas, but it can and does happen.

Now (again under UK law, not sure if this does apply in the US) you can pursue an individual for his LLC's debt, if you can demonstrate fiscal irresponsibility on that individual's part.

Might be worth a look.

 azreal13 wrote:
But it is entirely legal (under UK law, and I don't think US differs wildly in this regard) to form a new company, with a subtly different name, and then proceed to sell all your assets to them, while leaving the debts with the old company.

Yeah, see the Maelstrom and Mierce case.

 Kroothawk wrote:

Mathieu Raymond wrote:
It was a 30$ ill spent.

Well, now you can concentrate on buying those fabulous Titans by Daniel Mandelbaum

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooh!!! Shinies!!!!

Seriously, Dreamforge insulated me from that, as well as the plasticard patterns found on the intertoobs. It's immensely satisfying, plus it wiles away the long winter months.

I got a check today for the products I sent to Defiance. I want to make sure to report the facts as far as I know. Take it for what it is worth and let's not try to read things in to it, but someone at the company has settled up with me. Defiance has gotten some bad press because of the non-payment to me. They have corrected the issue and I wanted to let it be known that all accounts are paid up.

Thank goodness, Ken! I'm willing to give them the faintest possible chance now, and had no intention of doing so before. Hopefully they follow through in other areas as they have here!

Are they square with Rust Forge now, as well?

Defiance has also paid us in full as well. We have been withholding comment, per our attorneys advice, until Ken had been paid as well. Ken advised me earlier today that he had been paid and I was waiting for him to say something before I posted.

kenofyork wrote:
I got a check today for the products I sent to Defiance. I want to make sure to report the facts as far as I know. Take it for what it is worth and let's not try to read things in to it, but someone at the company has settled up with me. Defiance has gotten some bad press because of the non-payment to me. They have corrected the issue and I wanted to let it be known that all accounts are paid up.

How about we wait until that check actually clears, eh?

 Kroothawk wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
But it is entirely legal (under UK law, and I don't think US differs wildly in this regard) to form a new company, with a subtly different name, and then proceed to sell all your assets to them, while leaving the debts with the old company.

Yeah, see the Maelstrom and Mierce case.

Not exactly the same, no.

Mierce took the Banelegions stuff, but are a completely different company operating in a different way. If Rob had set up Maelstrom Games (Nottingham) Ltd, and had then purchased the assets of Maelstrom Games Ltd and continued to trade with the same website URL and still as an online wargaming discount retailer, that would be a Phoenix Administration and closer to what I mean.

So when is the next kickstarter for this power armour model coming, now that all kickstarter money was used to pay old bills?

 azreal13 wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
But it is entirely legal (under UK law, and I don't think US differs wildly in this regard) to form a new company, with a subtly different name, and then proceed to sell all your assets to them, while leaving the debts with the old company.

Yeah, see the Maelstrom and Mierce case.

Not exactly the same, no.

Mierce took the Banelegions stuff, but are a completely different company operating in a different way. If Rob had set up Maelstrom Games (Nottingham) Ltd, and had then purchased the assets of Maelstrom Games Ltd and continued to trade with the same website URL and still as an online wargaming discount retailer, that would be a Phoenix Administration and closer to what I mean.

Yeah, I get it. Completely different Rob Lane. Completely different corner of the same building. Completely different label on the same Banelegions kits, completely diffferent name on the same email-newsletter, so nothing in common at all

But it is rumoured that Rob Lane made Rob Lane a good price because they know each other from school