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Wow, wow, wow.... you play 40k with your mom?

Whats wrong with that? I used to play Fantasy with my mother all the time. Now I live with my girlfriends instead and play 40k with them, because Tyranids and Necrons are cooler than Skaven and Dwarves since AoS happened.

Sorry for the delay... thanks for great comments, Jancoran and PanzerLeader!

I took 2000 points against Ultramarines yesterday and did well. I did try the Heavy Flamer Rets in a Rhino and sent them after his Centurions thinking to force lots of saves, but he had them on all 3 levels of a building which weakened the templates (that may be a house rule-- templates affect only one level of a structure). They should have had a different target... maybe hold them in the rear or in cover as a counter against deep strikers.

He had Calgar, 1 Tac with a Rhino and Cypher, Scout Snipers, Drop Pod Sternguard, Drop Pod Ironclad Dred, GravCents, a Thunderfire Cannon, Legion of the Damned, and a Vindicare.

I had Uriah w/ 20-strong BSS, a 10-strong BSS, 3x Melta Doms in Immos, 2x Exos, the HF Rets in Rhino, 2x 5-strong BSS squads for objective management, Celestine, and 2x Seraphim.

We played the Maelstrom mission with decreasing objectives and I went first. I actually had some terrible rolling and some lazy errors: the Doms failed to Ignore the enhanced cover on the Centurions, giving 3+ cover saves against all the melta; the Seraphim failed to Shred until late in the game and the Rets failed to Rend at all (even with 3 Laud Hailers!); I forgot Uriah's enhanced saves for the big squad. I also failed to deploy the 10 BSS... I had stolen their Rhino to give the HF Rets a ride to the battle, but forgot to actually dismount them out of the case to footslog it... they came on with my turn 3 reserves. I also reserved 1 Immo with Doms, but on that diagonal battlefield, they didn't have a great chance to flank anything (I rolled my own short edge).

I poured a lot of fire into the Centurions (on the advice of a Chaos player who had faced this army before), but they soaked it up all game and I never did get the last one. The Doms and Seraphim on one flank got Cypher and the Tac squad; he dropped his Sternguard behind me, but Uriah's big blob wore them down; his Dred and the empty upgraded Drop Pods did quite a bit of damage to my backfield, including an Exo, but never claimed any objectives; his GravCents and Thunderfire Cannon took down Doms and Rets midfield; the other Seraphim got the Assassin, and my reserve Doms just grabbed objectives.

At the end, he had Calgar, one Centurion, half his Legion, a couple of Sternguard, the Dred, Scouts, and his Thunderfire Cannon; I had the remnants of three squads, 1 Immo (he popped the other 5 hulls), Uriah and a priest, and Celestine (take 2). We called it after turn 4 before it turned into me running away to avoid being tabled by the Thunderfire Cannon-- I had 10 points to his 2. I ultimately won it despite many errors and dreadful AoF rolls due to having more units on the board early when there were lots of scorable objectives, and then being more mobile late in the game when the objectives started to wear thin. He held 2 objectives all game, but I danced around the other 4 as the cards dictated. He had me outgunned and probably would have tabled me if it had gone beyond turn 5.

liking this one as a potential Sisters model

 Shandara wrote:
Heading to an 1850 tournament next week:

Canoness
2x Sisters in Rhino
3x Dominions with Melta
2x Exorcist
1x Avenger Strike Fighter
1x Marauder Destroyer Super-heavy flyer

1x Vindicare Assassin

Why the Marauder Destroyer? Well FW was allowed for the tournament and I rarely get to use it. I'm sure everyone will be surprised!

(And it's not like it's very dangerous)

Well, back from the tournament.

Round #1 - Dark Angels/White Scars biker hell /w Dark Shroud
We did a modified Maelstrom/Scouring mission, basically using tacticabl objective cards and normal objectives being worth 1,2,2,3,3,4 points.

I place all my objectives close to the edges to split him up and get some use out of my dominions outflanking. Of course his objectives are centre-ish and he gets all the high-value ones!
My dominions/exorcists did their thing and deleted his command squad and most of the other bikes. In the end he only had Khan, a Chapter Master and a few bikes.
But because I only got cards for the objectives in the centre (with no way to get there) I lost pretty badly on points.
He did learn that bikes, even ones with 2+ cover saves, don't like Dominions though.

Vindicare only immobilised his Darkshroud then got shot at by some bikes with bolters and promptly failed the first 3 saves he needed to take.
My Marauder Destroyer dropped his bombs on bikes and even killed a few. But mostly flew around looking badass.

Round #2 - Imperial Guard tank army with aegis defense line
He deployed close to his edge spread out behind his defense line, I won the roll to go first so I scouted up with the dominions. He failed to seize.
It was pretty much over turn 1. My dice were HOT. Blew up his Pask-punisher Warlord and 2 other Leman Russes with my 3 dominions. Vindicare blew up his Hydra. Exorcists blew up 2 Chimeras.
He was left with some scraps of infantry scrambling out of the wrecks of most his vehicles, failed his reserve rolls in turn 2 and in my turn 3 I tabled him.

Marauder Destroyer bombed some infantry but didn't have much targets when it came on.

Round #3: - 4 Knightts + Culexus Assassin
Tournament allowed forgeworld units but each unit was Unique. So he had 1 normal knight (A Warden I think) and 3 different FW Knights: Castigator, Atrophos en Acheron.
A tough matchup to be sure. I messed up my deployment and infiltrated my vindicare too far away. He then infiltrated his Culexus close to my Dominions, preventing them to scout close but out of LoS of the Knights.
Table Quarters deployment, so basically, the match consisted of me retreating slowly and giving up units while whittling down his knights. Flyers did their bit but the game ended on turn 6 (random game length) with 2 knights down, 1 at 1 HP and 1 at full.
He had the formation that gave his knights better shields etc..

Close call when he charged 2 dominions that had survived a previous charge+combat somehow and fled. I then rolled 2 sixes for overwatch, penetrated twice (the knight was at 1 HP) and he saved both :(

At the end I just had my canoness and 4 sisters huddled in the corner of my deployment zone and my 2 flyers.

Marauder Destroyer fired 8 missiles and his cannons at the rear end of the Castigator, hit everything and then I proceeded to fail every armour penetration roll. And the missiles are ordnance to boot! He then did bomb 2 knights and finished one off by pure luck of glances.
Vindicare took pot shots at Knights but was foiled by the shields. He did make my opponent sweat tho, but his 1 HP knight was just too lucky... I also forgot about him for 2 turns.

Since the mission was a modified Relic-type mission with tac cards he only won by a slight margin. Only having 4 big units (the Culexus died early and easily) doesn't make it easy to take objectives and/or relics!

MacPhail wrote:Sorry for the delay... thanks for great comments, Jancoran and PanzerLeader!

I took 2000 points against Ultramarines yesterday and did well. I did try the Heavy Flamer Rets in a Rhino and sent them after his Centurions thinking to force lots of saves, but he had them on all 3 levels of a building which weakened the templates (that may be a house rule-- templates affect only one level of a structure). They should have had a different target... maybe hold them in the rear or in cover as a counter against deep strikers.

Centurions are the perfect target for melta-minions - 2+ save, no invulnerable, and thus reliant on cover against AP1 weapons? If only they were T4...

Mr Morden wrote:liking this one as a potential Sisters model

Spoiler:

Broken link.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

MacPhail wrote:Sorry for the delay... thanks for great comments, Jancoran and PanzerLeader!

I took 2000 points against Ultramarines yesterday and did well. I did try the Heavy Flamer Rets in a Rhino and sent them after his Centurions thinking to force lots of saves, but he had them on all 3 levels of a building which weakened the templates (that may be a house rule-- templates affect only one level of a structure). They should have had a different target... maybe hold them in the rear or in cover as a counter against deep strikers.

Centurions are the perfect target for melta-minions - 2+ save, no invulnerable, and thus reliant on cover against AP1 weapons? If only they were T4...

Mr Morden wrote:liking this one as a potential Sisters model

Spoiler:

Broken link.

Wierd - works on my computer............

 Shandara wrote:

I place all my objectives close to the edges to split him up and get some use out of my dominions outflanking.

Brilliant. Why do I not think of these things? I often place one or more in cover so my HB Rets can camp it, and I like having a couple of 60-point minimum BSS squads to do the same with inconveniently located objectives far from the action, but I think you're on to something.

Thorned_Lily wrote:
If you don't want to crush the Orks from range but still want to be able to deal with them up close, absolutely take Flamers and Heavy Flamers in your squads. You'll get a couple kills in overwatch every time you're charged, not to mention the kills you'll get if you're close enough the turn before they get to charge.

I have the fairly unpopular opinion that penitent engines can be pretty good when used properly, plus I love the model and the fluff behind them. If you want to use them, go for it. Be warned though, because they're open-topped anything with high enough strength to penetrate your armor can explode it. That said, dual Heavy Flamers mean you'll get a bunch of kills before you charge or if they charge you, then those things are just brutal in CC. I love them and basically always include a squad of 3 in my list.

Cool. Glad to hear at least someone finds Penitent Engines useful. I doubt I'll field 3 until the plastics come out (someday...) because the first one I tried to build is the only model that I had to take a long break from, after barely containing the angry urge to throw it through the nearest window during construction. I finally built both of mine by giving no thought to aesthetic beauty and cramming as much Green Stuff as I needed into the gaps, combined with gobs of GW's craptastic superglue (I like GW's superglue because I can peel it off my fingers once it dries by running the fingers under a warm tap and applying soap periodically while scraping with a thumbnail).

 Jancoran wrote:
Flamers, priests, Mauls.

I have 1 Superior model with a power maul. And GW doesn't sell them anymore. : (

I have 5 Flamers, 2 Heavy Flamers and 2 minis I can use as Priests (though only one of those is kitted for melee and she has a power sword).

 pretre wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
I have a question.

I tend to play mostly foot Sisters (with some vanilla Marine allies), and my regular opponent tends to play foot Orks.

I'm not a huge fan of sitting in my deployment zone trying to gun down the Orks before they reach and obliterate my squads in melee, because I know it's not fun to spend the game charging across the table and getting whittled down but being mostly unable to do anything. Because of its unexpected killiness in the first game I used them in, my Battle Conclave is primary target number one for any of my mom's shooty units like Lootas, so typically it doesn't last to turn 2 when I field it.

I also play low-points games of 750 to 1000 points to make the matches go faster, on a table 4 feet by 4 feet.

Is there a way to build my army to deal with mobs of Orks up close? Would equipping my Battle Sister Squads with a flamer and heavy flamer be effective enough? How about trying to get Penitent Engines into melee?

I don't tailor my armies, but there are several things I take in SOB lists which help a lot with orks.

Dominions with Melta in Repressors (covers anti-horde and anti-tank)
Repressors with Heavy Flamers (if allying with a Drop Pod force) or Heavy Bolters (in a bastion, if in a pure force)
Battle Sisters with Melta/Flamer or Heavy Flamer in Repressor
BSS Blob with Priests, Jacobus and/or Celestine. Wear down those Orks. Rerollable 3+/5++ is a real pain to orks. Hit and Running out, shooting them again and then staying in on their turn is an even bigger pain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Example TAC Pure SOB List that would do fine with Orks:

Celestine - 135
Jacobus - 100
4 Priests with Litanies and 2 Power Mauls - 145
19 SOB with HF/F - 243
5 BSS with Melta/F in Repressor - 150
5 Dom with 4 Melta in Repressor with Laud - 190
5 Dom with 4 Melta in Repressor with Laud - 190
5 Dom with 4 Melta in Repressor - 180
Exorcist - 125
Exorcist - 125
6 Rets with 4 HB and Simulacrum - 122
Bastion with 2 Void Shields and Ammo Dump - 150
1850

I'm not a fan of tailoring my list to a particular opponent in principle, but it gets kinda hard to justify that viewpoint to my inner powergamer when my mom is the only person I've played 40k against for the past decade, and ever since Allies came back in 6th, she's pretty much only played Orks and keeps her list almost identical from game to game. And that's a situation that's likely to continue for the foreseeable future.

Repressors aren't really an option for me, since they're resin models from FW and I just don't want to deal with that in general. I do like the idea of a large squad of Battle Sisters led by a Priestess though, and have wanted to field a squad of 20 Sisters ever since I saw that one picture of such a unit in the Witch Hunters codex. I might stick my one power maul Superior in there.

 GoonBandito wrote:
I know you said Foot sisters, but Mechanised is the way to go imo. A unit of Battle Sisters with 2x Flamers in a Rhino is nasty to Orks - drive up to them, and Flame out of the hatch. Then let them charge you and eat 2x Flamers in overwatch. They'll glance the Rhino out, but on your next turn (assuming you pass your Pinning test...) you then activate your Act of Faith for Preferred Enemy and unload another 2x flame templates as well as rapid-fire bolt guns. If anything is left alive, they charge you again to eat more flamers in overwatch. Get some Dominion Squads with Meltaguns or Exorcists so you can S8 those T4 mega-nobs and insta kill them, as well as easily deal with any Kans, Dreads, Trukks or Wagons you might see.

Retributors and/or a Command Squad with Heavy Bolters are not too shabby against mobs of Boyz either.

The Foot Sisters thing is both an aesthetic issue, and the result of a very not-fun game I played once.

The aesthetic part is that I prefer the looks of infantry to the looks of tanks (it goes into video games too - in Planetside 2 I'd rather fight on foot than hop in a tank or aircraft. I make an exception for the ATVs since they're just transport vehicles, and I always swap to Third-Person view on them so I can see my character).

The bad experience was my first game with a fully mechanized list on both sides. It felt very boring to just move tanks around and wait for other tanks and heavy weapons units to pop them open with weapons fire. It turned me off of vehicles altogether for some months, but eventually someone suggested that although mechanized lists were seemingly out of the picture for me, I might consider using combat tanks like the Exorcist or Predator. Which I tried, and it was pretty fun. I've also tried taking Immolators and having the infantry go on foot while the Immolators provide fire support.

Exorcists are my favored way of dealing with Meganobz.

 Btothefnrock wrote:
Heavy flamers wreck orks. Shoot them at the bikes, watch him remove models. haha

My mom never liked the Bikes. She's a big fan of just charging across the field and letting shootas and choppas rip. Simple, brutal, effective.

 Celtic Strike wrote:
Wow, wow, wow.... you play 40k with your mom?

She and my dad met at the strategy club at their college, playing games like Axis and Allies.

I come from a family of gamer nerds.

My dad would play too, but he's a bit obsessive about collecting and experimenting, and doesn't have the money to collect 40k models the way he knows he would (especially now that he'll probably have some fairly serious ongoing medical bills for the rest of his life (stage 4 colon cancer, if you were wondering)). Also he doesn't enjoy building or painting miniatures.

 Pouncey wrote:
Repressors aren't really an option for me, since they're resin models from FW and I just don't want to deal with that in general. I do like the idea of a large squad of Battle Sisters led by a Priestess though, and have wanted to field a squad of 20 Sisters ever since I saw that one picture of such a unit in the Witch Hunters codex. I might stick my one power maul Superior in there.

Just convert repressors. I've got a thread if you're interested.

@ Furyou Miko: It's broken for me too. I did a quick search and I think that it's this character. Correct, Morden?

 pretre wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Repressors aren't really an option for me, since they're resin models from FW and I just don't want to deal with that in general. I do like the idea of a large squad of Battle Sisters led by a Priestess though, and have wanted to field a squad of 20 Sisters ever since I saw that one picture of such a unit in the Witch Hunters codex. I might stick my one power maul Superior in there.

Just convert repressors. I've got a thread if you're interested.

It's gonna have to wait a long time. We've got our house up for sale and as a result, all of my WH40k stuff is packed into boxes because having it strewn throughout two rooms and a hallway was not particularly appealing. Plus the storage shelves in the hallway were easy to bump into.

And when I say all my WH40k stuff, I mean ALL of it. Glue, paint, books, and every single model which is not in my glass display case I use for minis that don't go anywhere else. Some of those models I'm not even sure how I'm going to get to the new place, because they are ridiculously delicate, because they're Arco-Flagellants I made from Dark Elf Witch Elf models, with various Ecclesiarchy-looking stuff glued to the end of the whips, half of which are glued to a dagger hand with the dagger cut off. Or something. It's been a while.

Mallich wrote:
@ Furyou Miko: It's broken for me too. I did a quick search and I think that it's this character. Correct, Morden?

Yep - no idea why its not working - can ee it fine on mine..........ah well. They have a nice not Farseer as well.

On the main subject of the topic - looking at Kauyon some potentially useful bits and pices if you are happy yo include Allies>

The White Scars list allows you take them with the usual interesting WS Chapter rules but also BOTH normal and White scar relics.

The Hunters Eye caught my eye - cheap non weapon artefact that gives the model +1 BS and alsp any unit he is part of Ignores Cover - perhaps useful with retributors?

Mr Morden wrote:
Wierd - works on my computer............

You probably have a cookie that grants you permission to view the image when hotlinked.

Is a pretty awesome mini.

Just another heads-up for Sisters players: the Immolator kit is now being shown as Sold Out and no longer available worldwide. This will be the first time a core kit for us has become unavailable since the digital codex. Doesn't seem like a positive development.

 the_Armyman wrote:
Just another heads-up for Sisters players: the Immolator kit is now being shown as Sold Out and no longer available worldwide. This will be the first time a core kit for us has become unavailable since the digital codex. Doesn't seem like a positive development.

And it is our only non-fw full plastic kit to boot.

Time for dread or time for salvation only time will tell

awwww poop. Hope its because of an update since I just restarted my sisters army.... lol

NOT doing squats again demmit... Noooooooooo

 the_Armyman wrote:
Just another heads-up for Sisters players: the Immolator kit is now being shown as Sold Out and no longer available worldwide. This will be the first time a core kit for us has become unavailable since the digital codex. Doesn't seem like a positive development.

Steel thy self against doubt and have faith!

Pray my brothers and sisters for deliverance and vindication!...and plastic kits...so many plastic kits...

But remember, if you buy an Exorcist, the Immo kit comes as standard. Maybe that's GW's dastardly plan

 the_Armyman wrote:
But remember, if you buy an Exorcist, the Immo kit comes as standard. Maybe that's GW's dastardly plan

It's similar to the Rhino/Razorback for Marines. The Razorback kit makes both, yet we have a separate Rhino kit just the same. Maybe it's a similar case?

 War Kitten wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
But remember, if you buy an Exorcist, the Immo kit comes as standard. Maybe that's GW's dastardly plan

It's similar to the Rhino/Razorback for Marines. The Razorback kit makes both, yet we have a separate Rhino kit just the same. Maybe it's a similar case?

Nah, I was being silly. An Exorcist is more analogous to a Predator, not a Razorback. I doubt they'll keep making Exorcists if they don't keep making Immos. It's just the matter that they still have Exorcists in stock atm. As soon as those are gone, Exorcists are extinct, too.

So I got an LVO test game in today.

Here was my list:


Here is a rough approximation of my opponents list:


Mission was ITC #5 (Big Guns (4 objectives), Maelstorm, Warlord, Line Breaker, High Ground) and Vanguard Deployment.

Turned into a tactically interesting game. We both had servo skulls for opposite reasons. I wanted to deny scouting, he wanted to preserve the freedom to go where he wanted. I put my skulls along the length of his deployment zone, about a quarter inch out to prevent any forward movement. His went in a couple of random places. The objectives essentially ended up along both short board edges, 2 on each side. I rolled up -1 to enemy reserves for a warlord trait which ended up being great.

I deployed first and started everything on the board except the three dominions who outflanked. He null deployed and outflanked everything. I used turn one and two to redeploy everything into the center of the board and took just a couple of pot shots at his drop pod that came down deep in his deployment zone. It landed outside of contest range for either objective so it wasn't a big priority and I wanted to get everything off the short edges so he couldn't effectively strike me with his grav cannons and melta (18" threat range for full BS fire the turn they move on in the Rhinos).

He ended up piece mealing in over turns 2-4 and I got an early lead in maelstorm. I focused on killing of his 4 heavies and keeping mine central, out of range and able to use their 48"+ range to support either side. His mass obsec gave him a good chance of winning big guns except he overcommitted to the objective that gave him line breaker and I was able to clear him off two of them to tie objectives and win on bonus points.

Very happy with the lists damage output. The artillery company formation is awesome.

Man, makes me wish I had some wyverns.

 pretre wrote:
Man, makes me wish I had some wyverns.

It's time to commit to the Wyverns. Its really easy to convert them to be manned by Sisters.

I may get around to it.

He null deployed and outflanked everything. I used turn one and two to redeploy everything into the center of the board and took just a couple of pot shots at his drop pod that came down deep in his deployment zone. It landed outside of contest range for either objective.

Should have killed the drop pod turn 1, he would have lost by having no models on the table at the end of the turn.

1 - The Wyvern's Stormshard mortar is a rapid-fire mortar which (like incendiary weapons) has the "Ignore Cover" rule.

2 - Nebelwerfer were rapid-fire rocket-mortars. Some of them fired incendiary rockets and are easy enough to scratch-build.

Combine 1 and 2 and you get a weapon that fits the theme of burning all the heretics.

 Btothefnrock wrote:

He null deployed and outflanked everything. I used turn one and two to redeploy everything into the center of the board and took just a couple of pot shots at his drop pod that came down deep in his deployment zone. It landed outside of contest range for either objective.

Should have killed the drop pod turn 1, he would have lost by having no models on the table at the end of the turn.

The pod had 5 marines in it that were hidden by some ruins from the exorcists and the wyverns didn't get them. Poor rolling on the wound on my part and good saves on his. Sorry that wasn't clear enough before.

What was so good about the artillery formation?

The Wyverns are already TL and ignores cover. Did the orders really make the Manticore that much better?

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
What was so good about the artillery formation?

The Wyverns are already TL and ignores cover. Did the orders really make the Manticore that much better?

Couple of things:

(1) The formation has a rule called "Target Priority." This lets you twin-link all the formations shooting at a single target declared at any point in the shooting phase provided the target is within 18" of a unit with a vox caster. The CCS was essentially able to twin-link itself and the manticore every turn thanks to its vox caster. Not as good for the wyverns except the heavy bolters now get twin-linked if shooting the same target. The big benefit is that you can declare it at any point, so you can use meltas or exorcists to open transports and then twin-link against the contents if you need to.

(2) It lets me separate the Wyverns into 2 units which helps ton against MSU builds. It also increases their survivability.

(3) Suppressive Fire to give any of those units pinning is a nice touch. The ability to shoot the manticore as S10, twin-linked, Ignore Cover, d3 large blast is fantastic though. The S10 plus the range makes it much more versatile and useful than the veteran squad it replaced.

(4) It lets you cover the biggest gap in the Sisters codex (barrage) with a very minimum tax (really just a 40 point enginseer). An allied detachment requires the HQ + 1 Troop and gives you just a single heavy. Going double CAD requires the second troop as well. Its just an incredibly point efficient formation.