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 BBAP wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
I found this post ironically timed. I played Eldar last night and won a tournament with them. i used the kind of list you describe. You want to use a list that walks through armies as a REASON why this specific 113 point unit isn't useful? Lol. You think it MATTERS that its Sisters Repentia when comparing it to that?

First, the unit is 378pts assuming it's mounted. 153pts of Repentia plus Rhino might fight into an army. 378pts of Repentia and attendant gak is what you're trying to convince us is worth taking. If the unit isn't mounted it's cheaper, but has even less chance of doing anything useful.

Second, we've gone from "MoO and Rosarius makes Canoness awesome" to "Repentia unit is awesome" to "Repentia unit works in my Rhino rush" to "Repentia unit can't be judged against Eldar because Eldar are too good". The fact we can't judge it on its effectiveness against a competitive army build implies it is a noobhammer. It is functional against sub-par armies and/or inexperienced players. This is what I've been saying the whole time. It's a noobhammer. An expensive one. One that actively detracts from your ability to build a well-rounded Sisters of Battle army by taking up points and slots that would be better spent on other things. Yet here you are, still recommending it to people.

For the record, Eldar don't walk through either of the other armies I mentioned earlier (that you've chosen to ignore), namely Tau and Genestealer Cults. They can win, or they can lose, but it's never an easy game.

Its absurd to discuss with you if that's what you're going to do.

Yeah - I can imagine it's frustrating being asked to evince your statements when your statements are pure garbage. If you don't want to discuss with me, that's fine - stop lying to people about the usefulness of your gakky Repentia noobhammer and I'll stop calling you out on it. Then we need never deal with one another ever again.

No. what I told you was there was a reason to take artifacts and when i explained it, you attacked it. So thats what happened. You can continue to abuse, but i don't care. Lol. if it continues, the Mods can get ionvolved. ive laid my reasons out. You dont have to agree. You just need to stay civil.


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 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
No one says "Grotesquese are "bad" because"

No one ever said this, its actually considered really good and is a stable unit for many DE armies.

I have MANY Repentia and honestly I would never use them. With the meta the way it is, there is no way I can afford to have them on the table. If... however I had an Assault vehicle that be different.

If you found a way to use them then I guess more power to you!.

I did. It was explained. Its oconomical. It kills Knights, Wraith Knights, and any other unit you point it at. its a wrecking ball. not indestructible to shooting of course, but you just can't have everything. =)

 Jancoran wrote:
No. what I told you was there was a reason to take artifacts and when i explained it, you attacked it.

And then, after a page of nonsense, we came to an agreement that the reasons are weak so the artifacts aren't worth taking. Now we can stop talking to each other.

@JancoranMade

I was saying in my area they are impossible to use and that you are lucky your meta they can be played without an assault vehicle.

I play agains DA bike spam, WS Rhino/razorback spam (units soaked in plamsa JSJ in and out of rhinos with 3+ speeds behind etc...) Tau (storm surge + 2-3 riptides) and Necros.

They wont last 1 turn on the table b.c my area loves their vehicles and will just shoot them off in 1 valley.

Again to be clear It wasnt a negative to you, but just to show what works in your area might not work in others.

 frgsinwntr wrote:

i think the problem is, while its not a bad list, Marines do MSU better... so you'd be better off playing marines

We can't really make a death star....

What we basically have is a speed bumb combat unit (20 sisters or 20+ crusaders with a litanies priest) and exorcist spam (5-6 of them).

Well. I mean... Play Sisters or play Marines, but this is....a Sisters thread...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BBAP wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
No. what I told you was there was a reason to take artifacts and when i explained it, you attacked it.

And then, after a page of nonsense, we came to an agreement that the reasons are weak so the artifacts aren't worth taking. Now we can stop talking to each other.

passive aggressive Internet guy...we salute you.

So if we're done with the whole "don't take wargear on a canoness because repentia suck".

It's true that we get outclassed on deathstars without allies, either for units or assault vehicles. What other options do we have? After we max out on Fast and Heavy we've usually got plenty of Elite slots left over, so what about about playing to our strength which everyone can agree is MSU. How effective could it be to slip in a couple small units of Arcos or DCAs? Nobody is going to cry if they get shot off the table because they are so cheep, but chances are that nobody is actually going to shoot them if they have something better to shoot at and even if they do, then in theory means they've not shot at something more valuable.

Drider wrote:
So if we're done with the whole "don't take wargear on a canoness because repentia suck".

It's true that we get outclassed on deathstars without allies, either for units or assault vehicles. What other options do we have? After we max out on Fast and Heavy we've usually got plenty of Elite slots left over, so what about about playing to our strength which everyone can agree is MSU. How effective could it be to slip in a couple small units of Arcos or DCAs? Nobody is going to cry if they get shot off the table because they are so cheep, but chances are that nobody is actually going to shoot them if they have something better to shoot at and even if they do, then in theory means they've not shot at something more valuable.

My problem and why I dont use 45pts units of 3 dudes is 1st blood.

I like the command squads personally. I now have a reason to use those slots lol.

I don't bother with any upgrades outside of special weapons though. The squad's too small and squishy to befit from the hospitallers fnp imo.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Drider wrote:
So if we're done with the whole "don't take wargear on a canoness because repentia suck".

It's true that we get outclassed on deathstars without allies, either for units or assault vehicles. What other options do we have? After we max out on Fast and Heavy we've usually got plenty of Elite slots left over, so what about about playing to our strength which everyone can agree is MSU. How effective could it be to slip in a couple small units of Arcos or DCAs? Nobody is going to cry if they get shot off the table because they are so cheep, but chances are that nobody is actually going to shoot them if they have something better to shoot at and even if they do, then in theory means they've not shot at something more valuable.

My problem and why I dont use 45pts units of 3 dudes is 1st blood.

This is an msu army, get used to losing first blood.....

Taking a unit of repentia is not insane, just not very popular, I had not thought about using them on knights before, it is not a bad idea....

There's something about the command squad, I can't put my figure on what it is but it just puts me off the idea of using it. i think it's the AoF which shouldn't make a difference, but it also feels like i'd be better with a squad who's AoF lines up better with their job. Obviously Rets are first choice for a heavy weapons platform but even when the heavy slots are locked...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sfshilo wrote:
Taking a unit of repentia is not insane, just not very popular, I had not thought about using them on knights before, it is not a bad idea....

Indeed, it's not a "bad idea" but it's also can't be considered optimal. 85 points for a basic unit that potentially could do something useful but also wouldn't be missed if they died, it's almost the very essence of MSU.

 sfshilo wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Drider wrote:
So if we're done with the whole "don't take wargear on a canoness because repentia suck".

It's true that we get outclassed on deathstars without allies, either for units or assault vehicles. What other options do we have? After we max out on Fast and Heavy we've usually got plenty of Elite slots left over, so what about about playing to our strength which everyone can agree is MSU. How effective could it be to slip in a couple small units of Arcos or DCAs? Nobody is going to cry if they get shot off the table because they are so cheep, but chances are that nobody is actually going to shoot them if they have something better to shoot at and even if they do, then in theory means they've not shot at something more valuable.

My problem and why I dont use 45pts units of 3 dudes is 1st blood.

This is an msu army, get used to losing first blood.....

Taking a unit of repentia is not insane, just not very popular, I had not thought about using them on knights before, it is not a bad idea....

there is a difference in 3 wounds on t3 and rhinos/imm's

Edit: I wasnt talking about Repentia I was talking about DCA he asked "How effective could it be to slip in a couple small units of Arcos or DCAs?" I was saying a 3-4 unit of DCA would be a free 1st blood.

Drider wrote:How effective could it be to slip in a couple small units of Arcos or DCAs? Nobody is going to cry if they get shot off the table because they are so cheep, but chances are that nobody is actually going to shoot them if they have something better to shoot at and even if they do, then in theory means they've not shot at something more valuable.

I can see some merit in the idea - they're not sitting in slots that you care about, and they can put a few wounds into basic troopers, which might be useful when (or, rather, if) the game moves into midfield. At the same time though they're not a huge threat to anything Sisters can't already kill in spades, and their resilience is close to zero - their presence gives the opponent's Lasguns and Autoguns something to do, and forget about getting all 5 of them in past boltgun Overwatch. They also have no grenades, and if there's one thing I hate more than anything in 40k it's assault units with no grenades.

Also, see what I was saying above about Repentia. Shooting isn't the only way to deal with the DCAs, and the fact they're so slow means it's impossible to apply any real pressure with them. They're relegated to standing stag over your Sisters waiting to counter-charge stuff, and that's not a useful thing to bring to an army. Plus, once you're at 5 DCAs they're almost the same price as 5 Repentia, so if you did want to do this Repentia might be a better throw.

I wouldn't bother, though.

sfshilo wrote:Taking a unit of repentia is not insane, just not very popular, I had not thought about using them on knights before, it is not a bad idea....

Again, what are the Repentia bringing that you don't already have? Meltaguns will drop an IK easily enough, Multimeltas easier still. They also do it from range - which means a 4+ invul save, but it also means you don't have to spend a turn getting to the Knight, then another setting up a charge and hoping it doesn't just move away. Repentia will kill Knights (provided they don't get D'd out at I4), but they have to catch them to do it. If I'm playing a Knight I'm not going to let you charge the Repentia at him - and again, because of the army's low speed and unreliable mobility, you can't apply any pressure that would force me to leave the Knight where you want it to be.

Repentia aren't a bad unit, they're just right near the bottom of the list of stuff you want to take in a TAC Sisters army.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I was saying a 3-4 unit of DCA would be a free 1st blood.

Potentially yes if you're being daft about deployment, but if they're tucked in behind a rhino or otherwise out of LoS or in cover, it's no more of a first blood/strike give away than normal.

But say you've not derped deployment and they haven't been been gibbed by turn two or three. Could they make an impact? Could they make their points back? Obviously they'd get gibbed in overwatch if they charge on their own, but could they bail out that unit that's locked before it loses the special weapons? For example I've had a couple of games recently that I've had a unit of dominions locked from turn 2 to the end of the game by fenrisian wolves with neither side able to kill the other in 6 combat sub phases.

BTW i'm not suggesting spending a huge amount of points, more along the lines of. "Well i've got got 30-45 points left after I've taken all the stuff i want to, i could buy a couple combi weapons or i could bring a couple DCAs"

They could be useful as a tie-breaker unit, but if you're not mounting them then how will they keep up with the rest of your army? If this is the kind of thing you want in your army then why not just pay the extra 10pts and bring Repentia? They're not that much more fragile, they hit a lot harder, and once they're in CC you can pop their AoF to discourage any piffling Wolves from aiming their attacks at you.

Me, I'd sooner let the Dominions sit in combat with the Wolves and use the 85pts to bring some big guns, but that's just me.

I'm not even talking about that many points, more along the lines of you've reached the end of your list and have a few points left over 3-4 combi weapons vs 2-3 DCAs.

You said the same thing about bringing a priest vs a canoness, "just pay the extra and bring Veridyan" But what if paying the extra is not an option?

I also don't know what big guns you could be talking about bringing with 85 points.

Say, now that they cause Perils on a hit instead of a wound, are Condemner Boltguns useful now? 10pts, and you basically get a 2/3rds chance of wounding a Psyker if you hit. (And a 1/6th chance of making them far stronger for a turn, but... Well, yeah, that's a considerable risk.) If you don't know for sure that you're going to be facing Psykers, but want a method for singling them out in big squads, it seems like a good investment. (Plus, if someone buys a single Astropath, or any other one wound psyker, or... Ooh, if you wanted to be funny, shoot at a unit with a Primaris Psyker that has a commissar attached! Anyways, you can single out their buff unit pretty reliably.) Heck, getting two hits can kill a Space Marine Psyker, and three of these bad boys could put down an Exalted Sorcerer. (Sadly, no go against Magnus, but one can dream.)

That being the case I'm not sure. If I had all the Laud Hailers and Dozer Blades I wanted I'd probably take Condemnors on my Dominion Superiors before I took the DCAs - that way you can Scout up and aggravate deathstars before they have a chance to turn invisible. That seems like the most TAC option to me. That said, if you've reached this stage and are happy with your army list then take the DCAs. Can't do any harm, I suppose. Just don't expect much from them in the way of killing or tanking.

Sororitas Command Squad equipped with condemnor boltguns in a repressor, just get them close and you can ruin a psyker's day.

I would love to stick an inquisitor in the vehicle at deployment with Liber Heresius for scout and other shenanigans. Been looking, but is the jury still out on whether or not C:IA makes it legal to do so?

The Dom superior with Condemnor might be nice, but then you aren't melting things with your scouting Dom's. I think most of the psyker's start out in a ride anyways, at least around here.

 dracpanzer wrote:
Sororitas Command Squad equipped with condemnor boltguns in a repressor, just get them close and you can ruin a psyker's day.

I would love to stick an inquisitor in the vehicle at deployment with Liber Heresius for scout and other shenanigans. Been looking, but is the jury still out on whether or not C:IA makes it legal to do so?

The Dom superior with Condemnor might be nice, but then you aren't melting things with your scouting Dom's. I think most of the psyker's start out in a ride anyways, at least around here.

Don't need Liber Heresius, what you really need is Psycollum. BS10, for when you want to make sure that you extra-definitely take care of the Heresy.

Drider wrote:
Sadly their AoF triggers in the assault phase so it's mostly useless.

 BBAP wrote:

I kinda like that. Rets with FNP might give Veridyan somewhere to hide. The movement thing won't work though - they only get those rules in your Assault phase, so they can't use them unless charging.

Oops. Gotta read my new book again... I never used them in the past, so that AoF was a mystery to me. They still seem better than Celestians for the price. Maybe with a Hospitaller (FNP) and a Priest (rerolls), an extra Attack on the profile, and their Overwatch templates, they'll live long enough to use their flamers a second time, which my HF Rets rarely get to do. Part of me says just treat that Elite slot as a slightly overcosted BSS unit and be done with it. Are we feeling like rerolling 1s has enough merit to bring the Vestal Task Force? I can see it being nice the turn your Dominions turn into fire magnets, the turn drop pods fall like rain in your backfield, or the turn your opponent tries to powerwash your MSUs off the objectives.

I'm seeing elsewhere that both codices have been endorsed for the moment. Anyone here know where that's coming from? Do we even have a choice of ObSec CAD vs. Vestal anymore?

The only melee unit worth taking in the Sisters codex was Celestine, and circumstantially Penitent Engines (I run 9 of them... 27 hull points is a lot, and they kill ANYTHING they touch...). Anything else is too slow, too soft, too weak, or too lacking of assault vehicles. When I need a melee unit outside of those two, I bring allies. That being said, I really think sisters do MSU very, very well. 5 man battle sisters with double special weapons? 5 man Dominions with 4 special weapons? Immolators with a firing point and a multimelta up top? EXORCISTS?! All for dirt cheap prices. I'll happily take the drop in toughness to run this army over marines. I wish we had grav, but, frankly, it hardly matters. I'm packing so many str 8 weapons and heavy flamers, it's absolutely bonkers.

I find the condemnor bolt guns to be largely useless. How do you expect to hit an invisible unit? Shoot 5 times, miss all 5 times, invisible unit continues to melt your face. I know there are other psykers that it would be effective against, but killing them usually isn't that hard. It's the Be'Lakors and Sevrin Loths with Invisibility that I'm really worried about. That's what I need a counter to, and I'm planning on running Sisters of Silence for that very reason. I think they're much, much more effective at negating the game-breaking psychic powers that have been plaguing the meta for far too long.

On the topic of SCS's, I see a way to finally use my Multi-meltas. I was never happy with taking them in BBS's, and Retributors did better with Hvy. Bolters or Hvy. Flamers. 115 though gets me a squad with 5 MM, which I can park on a fire lane and dare people to come at me.

Other uses: the already stated 5 special/heavy weapons. 5 Hvy bolters would be a decent fire base unit, while flamers and meltas can support advances.

Bunker: take a hospitaler, and maybe a dialogues if you're feeling up to it. Nothing else. Provides 5 FNP bodies for Veridyan, and the Dialogues buffs AoF in the same radius. 80 pts to soak up wounds.

Ring the bells Ring the bells!


And bring some new pants/underwear



and sunglasses cause the future is bright

Amazing figs


Automatically Appended Next Post:
With any luck we'll need to start another 'New Sisters of Battle Codex Tactica' thread soon!

:-)

To bad I already have 3 St Celestine models

OMFG - I am so happy and I have 2 St C models already

I also own 3 Celestine models but have no problem adding a 4th

#Celestinereturns2017

So, that settles that then, play Celestine out of C:AS along side everything in C:IA until the supplement comes out and the digidex becomes completely irrelevant.

Drider wrote:
So, that settles that then, play Celestine out of C:AS along side everything in C:IA until the supplement comes out and the digidex becomes completely irrelevant.

I don't have any events coming up, but I would just ask the TO since it seems clear that she is coming back.

war wrote:
With any luck we'll need to start another 'New Sisters of Battle Codex Tactica' thread soon!

:-)

... either that or Codex: Space Marines just got a new Special Character - "St Celestine at the head of a Black Templars Crusade", he said, and her plus two Seraphim are all we've seen. I'd wait for confirmation of the rest of the army before I got too excited.

Still buying one though, whatever it is. And that Inquisitor too.

We've been using this thread through several instances of the SOB codex.