Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If it were me, I'd mix up the BBS units a bit more. Have flamer/heavy flamer squad inside a Heavy Flamer immolator. Genestealer cults is a thing that I worry about and wall of death on units assaulting the Immolators is just great.

 Anpu-adom wrote:
If it were me, I'd mix up the BBS units a bit more. Have flamer/heavy flamer squad inside a Heavy Flamer immolator. Genestealer cults is a thing that I worry about and wall of death on units assaulting the Immolators is just great.

I agree 100% that they can be a pain in the butt... that said servo skulls stop this turn 1, after that its just the random roll of a 6. Coteaz's i've been expecting you is also a nice counter. I'll probably throw in some heavy flamers however.

frgsinwntr wrote:grats on the great showing! Thats a very different list than I'm running with castellans. Looks solid with a fair bit of mixing of units. How do you play this list vs things like bark bark star/ironhands star?

Shoot what I can with Grav and tie the others up with Celestine.

Drider wrote:Flock to the front lines, after several games i am still yet to have a single unit respawn. I have been aggressively scouting my dominions who have been taking the brunt of things and the troops just haven't been dying enough to take advantage of the mechanic. I'm not a fan of reserves because it feels like a false economy but i'm considering that outflanking them might actually be the best way to redirect the fire into the troops to capitalize on the respawn mechanic.

Yeah, just one for me. It was silly.

Jancoran wrote:Yip. that multicharge was pretty good., I killed the bikes, all but one scout and the Immolator with a single Grotesque charge. Pretty sweet. If I recall I later ganked the Sisters of Battle that were there a round later. Not bad. Those Grotesques ultimately failed that second multicharge. I got greedy on a charge. Had rolled the exact amount i needed to charge into the Centurions and got greedy, re-rolled and missed it. crushing moment but they did work. Second Grotesques missed two. Ah well. It's still fun to see those things rampage like they do. They are shockingly effective.

To be fair, that Multicharge roll made up for you denying Shriek on the Grots on my turn, which would have decimated a squad of them. (we rolled to see what it would have been and it was like 14 or something crazy).

As for Celesting, I wrote an article about her. She is easy to wound but tough to get through with all those wounds and 2+ armor. I knew I'd be impressed. She EVENTUALLY mulched through a Beastpack, though it took far longer than she wanted as she failed her Hit n Run on the round she wanted it. But in the end she killed it and then kept some Grotesques busy the rest of the game. She was really worth taking and she was really what kind of held the line for the Castellans. She was necessary for that force.

I liked her a lot and cannot wait to field her against the multiverse. There are so many times I would have loved to have something like that to bottle neck an enemy. I found the Repentias very good at it. She is so mobile and can travel i nthe open which makes a difference. Moreso the mobility.

Anywho, It was really interesting to finally get to see her do her thing.

She is definitely worth every point and denied the warlord in every game.

 frgsinwntr wrote:


I think if you want to take advantage of that rule... you need to really have a troop heavy list.

example... my 1850 list... made for playing Nova progressive missions.
HQ Coteaz,
HQ hereticus inquisitor with psyocculum, circle of dusvalle, 3 servo skulls, melta bomb (warlord)
HQ sisters command squad with combi condemnors, dozer rhino
Troops 5 sisters, 2 meltas, combi melta, dozer MM immolator
Troops 5 sisters, 2 meltas, combi melta, dozer MM immolator
Troops 5 sisters, 2 meltas, combi melta, dozer MM immolator
Troops 5 sisters, 2 meltas, combi melta, dozer MM immolator
Troops 5 sisters, 2 meltas, combi melta, dozer MM immolator
Troops 5 sisters, multi melta, combi condemnor, dozer rhino
Troops 5 sisters, multi melta, combi condemnor, dozer rhino
Troops 5 tactical marines, grav, combi grav, pod (ultra marines)
Fast 5 seraphim, 2 models with 2 hand flamers
Fast 5 seraphim, 2 models with 2 hand flamers
Heavy thunderfire cannon (ultra marines)
IA detach
HQ malleus inquisitor (Imperial agents)
IA detach
HQ malleus inquisitor (Imperial agents)

What are the roles of the various Inquisitors in this list?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:
Finally got to play Castellans at a local 1500 (no BB, maelstrom heavy) event.

Celestine is a beast. Castellans was okay. Hatred was great, I only got one 5+ for regen all day. Went 3-0 though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Who has two thumbs and is about to have a bunch of stuff eaten by Jancoran's grotesques?

Spoiler:

Excellent news, especially since a Sisters/Scars Castellans list is in my future. Also in pieces on my bench. Well done!

 MacPhail wrote:
What are the roles of the various Inquisitors in this list?

Extra warlord traits.

 pretre wrote:

Drider wrote:Flock to the front lines, after several games i am still yet to have a single unit respawn. I have been aggressively scouting my dominions who have been taking the brunt of things and the troops just haven't been dying enough to take advantage of the mechanic. I'm not a fan of reserves because it feels like a false economy but i'm considering that outflanking them might actually be the best way to redirect the fire into the troops to capitalize on the respawn mechanic.

Yeah, just one for me. It was silly.

Y'all need to tell your dices to get gud guys My very first game I respawned everything once, that was awesome !
After that I usually got 1-2 respawn per game (with 4 troops + 4 transports in my list) which was enough to be useful.

If your troops are not enough of a threat, make them more dangerous. I know in the future I will pay a combi to all troop sister superior to go to 3 melta shot per unit. That makes them a bigger threat and I'll get more mileage from the respawn.
I even sometimes wonder about puting hunter-killer missile on all those respawning immos


In addition to Pretre's list, here's another one at 1500 that worked pretty well for me so far (temporary #1 ITC fudge yeah ! I wonder how fast I'll go down in the rankings from now on xD)

The two barrage unit and the scouts proved to be enough anti-horde while everything else can deal with heavy stuff. The bike command squad + Celestine unit is not great in close combat, but durable enough to tie up stuff, hit'n'run away and grav the hell out of everything.
The tactical squad will probably go away in favor of another scout squad in LS Storm (those guys are awesome) and some options. Like I said earlier, probably combi-melta on all troop sarges/superiors to buff those troops and get a better mileage of the respawn mechanic.
Anyway, that list got me 3-0 at two different RTTs =)

 pretre wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
What are the roles of the various Inquisitors in this list?

Extra warlord traits.

this...

the list sometimes needs a nice alpha strike so getting infiltrate warlord trait is a big deal. They are there for warlord traits and not much else. The warlord inquisitor however is in the list because he is a cheap warlord with multiple wounds. Using the psyocculum he will ride with the condemnor command squad to guarantee damage from the condemnors. They'll hit on rerollable 2s causing 5 perils of the warp on a unit with a psyker. The warlord one also has the circle of Desvalle... to give him an invul save and in a relic mission/objective mission prevent my opponent from gating to the location to steal the objective last turn or prevent summoned units from getting too close!

 pretre wrote:


To be fair, that Multicharge roll made up for you denying Shriek on the Grots on my turn, which would have decimated a squad of them. (we rolled to see what it would have been and it was like 14 or something crazy).

Actually you rolled 17. So if that had gone off...POOF.

Although i dont think karma is an actual thing in a dice game. Lol. I got greedy is all. Should have accepted the successful charge and been done with it. That was entirely just a calculated risk that didnt pay off. I was just happy to have the chance at it after that Shriek. Yeesh. Coulda been worse.

 frgsinwntr wrote:
Using the psyocculum he will ride with the condemnor command squad to guarantee damage from the condemnors. They'll hit on rerollable 2s causing 5 perils of the warp on a unit with a psyker.

I was a big fan of this psyocculum+condemnor squad, but since the LVO I stopped fielding the unit when one of my opponent pointed out to me that multiple condemnor do not stack (because of the way the psi-shock rule is written). So we called a judge and he decided in his favor. At the moment we both could see each other points, and I fear he is right.

The rule says (I don't have my codex at hand right now so I'm paraphrasing): "if a unit is hit by a weapon with the psy-chock rule, one random psyker suffers a perils of the warp in addition to any other damage". The important part is the "if a unit is hit by a psi-shock weapon" which technically is only triggered once (all hits from same weapons being simultaneous) and not one time per hit. Making a volley of 5-6 condemnor as efficient as a single one firing.
It's very sad, but everytime I reread the rule and think about it, I'm inclined to say that my opponent was right and this squad just goes back to uselessness.

 RabbitMaster wrote:

It's very sad, but everytime I reread the rule and think about it, I'm inclined to say that my opponent was right and this squad just goes back to uselessness.

What about Condemnors scattered throughout the army on Superiors? I guess the danger is you end up shooting at something you otherwise wouldn't, then fail to wound.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
What are the roles of the various Inquisitors in this list?

Extra warlord traits.

Sounds like infiltrate is the big winner... any other popular ones? Also, is the Inquisitor worth using to boost a squad, or is it safer to hide your potential kill points behind the line?

On the strategic table, Infiltrate is probably the best with the +1 to seize and reroll reserves being close second (specially with coteaz seize reroll).

Stealth ruins is usually good to have while the -1 ennemy's reserve are situational but can be very potent depending on the situation

Night fight is usually not very helpful although it can sometimes be potent (but there is so many cases where it doesnt matter or when the ennemy can play around it) and almost everything in he game is immune to pinning test when deployed (either because inside a trnasport, on bikes, fearless, whatever...) so those last 2 traits are not the best ever.

Also, is the Inquisitor worth using to boost a squad, or is it safer to hide your potential kill points behind the line?

They're usually hiding because people like to keep them cheap. But a well kited out inquisitor can seriously buff units.

 MacPhail wrote:

 RabbitMaster wrote:

It's very sad, but everytime I reread the rule and think about it, I'm inclined to say that my opponent was right and this squad just goes back to uselessness.

What about Condemnors scattered throughout the army on Superiors? I guess the danger is you end up shooting at something you otherwise wouldn't, then fail to wound.

I might try that in the future, but IMHO it's probably not worth it. Going scattered simply adds too many constraints on top of an already situational weapon.

You can also use the Inq to soak wounds on another squad and don't forget servo skulls!

 pretre wrote:
You can also use the Inq to soak wounds on another squad and don't forget servo skulls!

Sounds like stashing them in the backfield with Retributers or objective campers might be the best. They can't embark with anything other than henchmen because of the faction rules, right? I guess the "add an ordos unit" option might get them attached to a cool mounted unit, or the IA Valkyrie that allows multiple factions to embark.

 MacPhail wrote:

 pretre wrote:
You can also use the Inq to soak wounds on another squad and don't forget servo skulls!

Sounds like stashing them in the backfield with Retributers or objective campers might be the best. They can't embark with anything other than henchmen because of the faction rules, right? I guess the "add an ordos unit" option might get them attached to a cool mounted unit, or the IA Valkyrie that allows multiple factions to embark.

Yeah, I used mine to soak wounds on Coteaz's squad this last tourney, but Rets would be fine or any other unit that is sitting out in the middle of nowhere and might get shot.

I'm excited about the new book coming out. For ITC i'm going to try a Fallen primary for BRB warlord purposes, with a Sisters cad ITC main faction (most points) and ally in my Kytan Daemon Engine in a Chaos CaD.

That's right, Celestine and a Kytan wrecking face. Not sure how the points will work our or any type of effectiveness, but gosh if it won't break the fluff and ruin some person's day.

 RabbitMaster wrote:

 frgsinwntr wrote:
Using the psyocculum he will ride with the condemnor command squad to guarantee damage from the condemnors. They'll hit on rerollable 2s causing 5 perils of the warp on a unit with a psyker.

I was a big fan of this psyocculum+condemnor squad, but since the LVO I stopped fielding the unit when one of my opponent pointed out to me that multiple condemnor do not stack (because of the way the psi-shock rule is written). So we called a judge and he decided in his favor. At the moment we both could see each other points, and I fear he is right.

The rule says (I don't have my codex at hand right now so I'm paraphrasing): "if a unit is hit by a weapon with the psy-chock rule, one random psyker suffers a perils of the warp in addition to any other damage". The important part is the "if a unit is hit by a psi-shock weapon" which technically is only triggered once (all hits from same weapons being simultaneous) and not one time per hit. Making a volley of 5-6 condemnor as efficient as a single one firing.
It's very sad, but everytime I reread the rule and think about it, I'm inclined to say that my opponent was right and this squad just goes back to uselessness.

it says "If a unit containing at least one model with the psyker, brotherhood of pyskers, or psychic pilot rule special rules is hit by a weapon with the psi shock special rule, one randomly selected psyker model in that unit suffers a perils of the warp in addition to any other damage."

So... they were hit 5 times... that rule triggers 5 times. I don't see a reason why each hit wouldn't activate the rule. This has nothing to do with the shooting happening simultaneously or not. It says the only condition for triggering a perils is for the weapon to hit. Each hit would do this since they were "hit by a weapon " singular stressed by me.

But i'll ask the TO for the delawarr open before I go. I'll take what the TO rules either way.

T

Bionid wrote:
Hi all, I've lurked for a long time, and I learned a massive amount from this thread when coming back from my 40k hiatus over 4th and 5th edition. So thank you all for that!

Next month we're starting an ETC league locally, with 18 players, each playing 8 games in swiss pairings before top 8 play off. It's no holds barred so I'm expecting all the nastiest stuff possible.
The restrictions are fairly standard for ETC, no forgeworld allowed so no worries about Skathach or R&H barrage (Though they're allowing Repressors), 1850, 4 detachment max (the mega detachments count as 2).

Mission-wise, there are 8 missions - each takes into account killpoints, 24 card deck, Eternal War objectives and your standard slay the warlord etc.

Therefore, since I usually play full MSU sisters, I figured I'd be giving over a free 6vp every game, and I couldn't go full deathstar or I'd be screwed on the objectives. I've instead gone for a sort of half'n'half.

Sisters CAD

Celestine (200)
Priest, Litanies (40)
BSSx5, MG/HF TLMM (140)
BSSx5, MG/HF TLMM (140)
BSSx5, MG/HF TLMM (140)
BSSx5, MG/HF TLMM (140)
Domsx5, 4xMG Repressor (190)
Domsx5, 4xMG Repressor (190)

Librarius Conclave
Librarian, ML2, Bike, Axe (110)
Librarian, ML2, Bike, Axe (110)
Librarian, ML2, Bike, Axe, Bones of Osrak (135)

Wolfkin
10 Fenrisian Wolves (80)
10 Fenrisian Wolves (80)
10 Fenrisian Wolves (80)
10 Fenrisian Wolves (80)

Basically I'll be running a star of the wolves, celestine, priest, and the conclave, while the sisters clear up objectives and doms clear heavy hitters who might stomp up the star. Late game I can split up to cover objectives for the endgame primaries.

I've playtested this once against a screamer heavy demonic incursion list and I made a few key errors but I think the theory is working. Celestine tanking for the star with Veil of Time basically meant it got to combat unharmed, even though it lacked Azrael for the 4++ / 5+++ on the dogs.

I'm wondering though:
Castellans. It would take me to the four detachment max, and I could keep obsec by adding Coteaz. Do you think it's worth dropping the Immos to rhinos and dropping the bones of Osrak to take Coteaz and change the CAD to a Castellans. Two extra rolls for hammerhand or sanctuary couldn't hurt either!

Cheers

Barkstar without Azrael is very susceptible to a lot of things... You can't expect to tank with Celestine for the most part, its easy for a good player to out position and get a good angle to wipe out as many dogs as possible.

1. Mass barrage, like from a renegades list.

2. Mass flamers (torrents) or big flamers from Skataknights, one nice angle shot, you lose 10-15+ dogs. And you don't really have a reliable way to deal with a WK in combat either, stomps will wipe out a lot of dogs too.

3. If you run into a true barkstar, you might be in real trouble.

If you intend on sticking to this army, I would bring a Red Scorpion conclave to have Loth for guarantee Invis and shroud (ETC Invis is un-nerf right?). He can also help tank with a 2++ as a contingency.

 deviantduck wrote:
I'm excited about the new book coming out. For ITC i'm going to try a Fallen primary for BRB warlord purposes, with a Sisters cad ITC main faction (most points) and ally in my Kytan Daemon Engine in a Chaos CaD.

That's right, Celestine and a Kytan wrecking face. Not sure how the points will work our or any type of effectiveness, but gosh if it won't break the fluff and ruin some person's day.

Aren't Sisters and CSM Come the apocalypse, and therefore not an allowed alliance in ITC ?

 frgsinwntr wrote:
it says "If a unit containing at least one model with the psyker, brotherhood of pyskers, or psychic pilot rule special rules is hit by a weapon with the psi shock special rule, one randomly selected psyker model in that unit suffers a perils of the warp in addition to any other damage."

So... they were hit 5 times... that rule triggers 5 times. I don't see a reason why each hit wouldn't activate the rule. This has nothing to do with the shooting happening simultaneously or not. It says the only condition for triggering a perils is for the weapon to hit. Each hit would do this since they were "hit by a weapon " singular stressed by me.

But i'll ask the TO for the delawarr open before I go. I'll take what the TO rules either way.

Try to read it that way: you roll 5 times to hit. Is the unit hit by a weapon with the psy-shock rule ? Yes, then a one randomly selected psyker suffers perils in addition to any other damage.
when read that way, there is nothing to support the fact that you can get more than 1 peril. If the rule used a wording like "for every hit" or "everytime a psy-shock weapon hit" then yeah it would be clearer. And same for the other way, something like "if a unit is hit one or more time by a psy-schock weapon, then blablabla" would have been crystal clear.

I'm in touch with the LVO judges and other people involved in the ITC FaQ to try getting a ruling on the matter as far as ITC games are concerned.

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

Barkstar without Azrael is very susceptible to a lot of things... You can't expect to tank with Celestine for the most part, its easy for a good player to out position and get a good angle to wipe out as many dogs as possible.

1. Mass barrage, like from a renegades list.

2. Mass flamers (torrents) or big flamers from Skataknights, one nice angle shot, you lose 10-15+ dogs. And you don't really have a reliable way to deal with a WK in combat either, stomps will wipe out a lot of dogs too.

3. If you run into a true barkstar, you might be in real trouble.

If you intend on sticking to this army, I would bring a Red Scorpion conclave to have Loth for guarantee Invis and shroud (ETC Invis is un-nerf right?). He can also help tank with a 2++ as a contingency.

Well ETC doesnt allow FW content so no Renegades, Skataknights or Loth.
And from what I know, barrage weapons are not the hot thing in ETC and there is no allowed unit that can field a superheavy flame template.

But yeah, maneuvering around Celestine is not the hardest thing to do. So he need to fish heavily for the un-nerfed invis / endurance.

 RabbitMaster wrote:

Try to read it that way: you roll 5 times to hit. Is the unit hit by a weapon with the psy-shock rule ? Yes, then a one randomly selected psyker suffers perils in addition to any other damage.
when read that way, there is nothing to support the fact that you can get more than 1 peril. If the rule used a wording like "for every hit" or "everytime a psy-shock weapon hit" then yeah it would be clearer. And same for the other way, something like "if a unit is hit one or more time by a psy-schock weapon, then blablabla" would have been crystal clear.

I'm in touch with the LVO judges and other people involved in the ITC FaQ to try getting a ruling on the matter as far as ITC games are concerned.

Not to insult your rules interpretations or anything, but I see no reason to ONLY interpret it that way...
WAY 1) you way...
a) fire weapons
b) hit with all weapons
c) check to see if a weapon with psi-shock hit resolve one.
This is how it would read if you checked once for the rule after all hits... there is no reason or precedent to check only once... i can't find any weapon where this is the case and any rule that are close (Blind example), says units hit by one OR more weapons with the rule.... so there is reason enough to not rule it this way IMHO....

Way 2) my reading
a) fire all weapons
b) hit with all weapons
c) each hit with a weapon with the special rule triggers the effect
Again since there is no precedent and I can't find a weapon with a similar mechanic.... Blind being the closest and that says one OR more hits... language missing from psi-shock.

It seems like a straight up TO call depending on the event. Definitely not clear cut.
I talked to steve who runs delawarr, and Phil R (NOVA judge) and since i'm an east coast player I'm going with their ruling of each hit causes the perils. I just wish there was a weapon with a similar mechanic.

Edit: reading it your way would mean multiple weapons with haywire rule hitting a target would only result in a single haywire roll... To be consistent

Hold your cyber horses bro I never said it was the only way to interpret it, and it is definitively not "my" way. I always played it as 1 hit = 1 perils, but some people don't agree. That's why I brought up the point.
And if it made you clarify it with the TO for the Delawarr, then it's mission accomplished You won't be in the same situation that I was at the last LVO.

As for Haywire, the rule is sadly not worded the same way. "if a haywire weapon hits a vehicle" is not the same as "if a vehicle is hit by a haywire weapon". One condition is verified on a weapon basis, the other is verified on a unit basis. Also Haywire specifically states that it overwrites the penetration roll.

I wasn't able to find any other similarly worded rule to set up a precedent either.

 RabbitMaster wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

Barkstar without Azrael is very susceptible to a lot of things... You can't expect to tank with Celestine for the most part, its easy for a good player to out position and get a good angle to wipe out as many dogs as possible.

1. Mass barrage, like from a renegades list.

2. Mass flamers (torrents) or big flamers from Skataknights, one nice angle shot, you lose 10-15+ dogs. And you don't really have a reliable way to deal with a WK in combat either, stomps will wipe out a lot of dogs too.

3. If you run into a true barkstar, you might be in real trouble.

If you intend on sticking to this army, I would bring a Red Scorpion conclave to have Loth for guarantee Invis and shroud (ETC Invis is un-nerf right?). He can also help tank with a 2++ as a contingency.

Well ETC doesnt allow FW content so no Renegades, Skataknights or Loth.
And from what I know, barrage weapons are not the hot thing in ETC and there is no allowed unit that can field a superheavy flame template.

But yeah, maneuvering around Celestine is not the hardest thing to do. So he need to fish heavily for the un-nerfed invis / endurance.

Yep, none of that is allowed. I changed my list up slightly, and went to a one dayer at element games, ended up playing a Team England ETC player with the list.

My list for the event was:
Castellans of the Imperium Detachment (1089)
HQ1: Celestine (200)
HQ2: Coteaz (100)
HQ3: Ministorum Priest, Litanies of Faith (40)
HQ4: Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, 3 Servo Skulls, Rad Grenades (49)
HQ Total: 389
T1: BSSx5, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T2: BSSx5, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T3: BSSx5, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T4: BSSx4, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T5: BSSx4, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T Total: 700

Wolfkin Formation (320)
Fenrisian Wolves x10 (80)
Fenrisian Wolves x10 (80)
Fenrisian Wolves x10 (80)
Fenrisian Wolves x10 (80)

Librarius Conclave (440)
Librarian, ML2, Bike (110)
Librarian, ML2, Bike (110)
Librarian, ML2, Bike (110)
Librarian, ML2, Bike (110)


First game at the event, and using this pseudo-star at all, was against Mani Cheema - Team England's wolfstar player. This was already an uphill battle since his list was basically similar in function to mine, but better in every way. Azrael for the Invuln, Battle Company to have 10 obsec transports with 10 obsec units inside instead of my 5, Rune Priests with more effective offensive powers. I made a bunch of mistakes here, and I would have played it very differently having had 7 games with this list since. I basically managed to roll nothing useful, and placed my rad grenades poorly in the unit, that got destroyed by the 5d6 s7 shots from a rune priest. Had that not happened, Hammerhand Celestine would have ID'd Azrael, and I maybe would have stood a chance. I got 0-20'd, but not tabled.
After playing this game it was clear my first power to roll for would be Forewarning, followed by Sanctuary, Hammerhand, and Veil of Time.

Second game was against a pure Dark Angels Lion's blade. His drop pods came in and killed ~8 wolves, and two immolators. I managed to roll my powers and proceeded to multicharge to my heart's content, tabling the opponent. 20-0 for the sisters.

Third game was against double Wraithknight ynnari. I got given first turn so rolled my powers, buffed up the unit, and moved forward as quickly as possible. I was hoping he'd take the bait with his wraithknights, and he did. I caused 6 wounds on one in the first round of combat, and 5 on the other. S6 wolves vs a (now) T7 WK, rerolling hits, wounds, caused plenty of pain. His stomp didn't get a 6 so Celestine kept her extra life too! I hit and ran out (thanks Celestine), and destroyed the rest of his army while the Immos mopped up the WK, making sure nothing was within 7".

Ended up coming 10th overall, out of 26. Not bad for my first event. Interestingly, out of 5 players, Ynnari's highest placing was 12th.

Great write-up, thanks.

Ynnari will be a finesse army. Capitalizing on their abilities requires a skilled player and the average opponent won't do significantly better with them (and is in many ways better off sticking just to craftworld or corsair eldar).

 RabbitMaster wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
I'm excited about the new book coming out. For ITC i'm going to try a Fallen primary for BRB warlord purposes, with a Sisters cad ITC main faction (most points) and ally in my Kytan Daemon Engine in a Chaos CaD.

That's right, Celestine and a Kytan wrecking face. Not sure how the points will work our or any type of effectiveness, but gosh if it won't break the fluff and ruin some person's day.

Aren't Sisters and CSM Come the apocalypse, and therefore not an allowed alliance in ITC ?

This was based off the leaked Fallen rules, so I haven't confirmed it. If the fallen are your primary BRB faction, then they can ally with both Chaos and Imperial. So the sisters are allied with the fallen, and the Chaos are allied with the fallen. You just have to keep your sisters 12" from your chaos or they might just stand there looking silly.

Level of alliances are not defined from your primary detachment perspective only. If you have 3 different factions in your army, then you have A allied to B, A allied to C and B allied to C.
If Fallen and Sisters are Come the apocalypse, then they can never be in the same army (per ITC format), no matter what your primary detachment is.

Bionid wrote:

 RabbitMaster wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

Barkstar without Azrael is very susceptible to a lot of things... You can't expect to tank with Celestine for the most part, its easy for a good player to out position and get a good angle to wipe out as many dogs as possible.

1. Mass barrage, like from a renegades list.

2. Mass flamers (torrents) or big flamers from Skataknights, one nice angle shot, you lose 10-15+ dogs. And you don't really have a reliable way to deal with a WK in combat either, stomps will wipe out a lot of dogs too.

3. If you run into a true barkstar, you might be in real trouble.

If you intend on sticking to this army, I would bring a Red Scorpion conclave to have Loth for guarantee Invis and shroud (ETC Invis is un-nerf right?). He can also help tank with a 2++ as a contingency.

Well ETC doesnt allow FW content so no Renegades, Skataknights or Loth.
And from what I know, barrage weapons are not the hot thing in ETC and there is no allowed unit that can field a superheavy flame template.

But yeah, maneuvering around Celestine is not the hardest thing to do. So he need to fish heavily for the un-nerfed invis / endurance.

Yep, none of that is allowed. I changed my list up slightly, and went to a one dayer at element games, ended up playing a Team England ETC player with the list.

My list for the event was:
Castellans of the Imperium Detachment (1089)
HQ1: Celestine (200)
HQ2: Coteaz (100)
HQ3: Ministorum Priest, Litanies of Faith (40)
HQ4: Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, 3 Servo Skulls, Rad Grenades (49)
HQ Total: 389
T1: BSSx5, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T2: BSSx5, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T3: BSSx5, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T4: BSSx4, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T5: BSSx4, MG/HF, Immolator (TLMM) (140)
T Total: 700

Wolfkin Formation (320)
Fenrisian Wolves x10 (80)
Fenrisian Wolves x10 (80)
Fenrisian Wolves x10 (80)
Fenrisian Wolves x10 (80)

Librarius Conclave (440)
Librarian, ML2, Bike (110)
Librarian, ML2, Bike (110)
Librarian, ML2, Bike (110)
Librarian, ML2, Bike (110)


First game at the event, and using this pseudo-star at all, was against Mani Cheema - Team England's wolfstar player. This was already an uphill battle since his list was basically similar in function to mine, but better in every way. Azrael for the Invuln, Battle Company to have 10 obsec transports with 10 obsec units inside instead of my 5, Rune Priests with more effective offensive powers. I made a bunch of mistakes here, and I would have played it very differently having had 7 games with this list since. I basically managed to roll nothing useful, and placed my rad grenades poorly in the unit, that got destroyed by the 5d6 s7 shots from a rune priest. Had that not happened, Hammerhand Celestine would have ID'd Azrael, and I maybe would have stood a chance. I got 0-20'd, but not tabled.
After playing this game it was clear my first power to roll for would be Forewarning, followed by Sanctuary, Hammerhand, and Veil of Time.

Second game was against a pure Dark Angels Lion's blade. His drop pods came in and killed ~8 wolves, and two immolators. I managed to roll my powers and proceeded to multicharge to my heart's content, tabling the opponent. 20-0 for the sisters.

Third game was against double Wraithknight ynnari. I got given first turn so rolled my powers, buffed up the unit, and moved forward as quickly as possible. I was hoping he'd take the bait with his wraithknights, and he did. I caused 6 wounds on one in the first round of combat, and 5 on the other. S6 wolves vs a (now) T7 WK, rerolling hits, wounds, caused plenty of pain. His stomp didn't get a 6 so Celestine kept her extra life too! I hit and ran out (thanks Celestine), and destroyed the rest of his army while the Immos mopped up the WK, making sure nothing was within 7".

Ended up coming 10th overall, out of 26. Not bad for my first event. Interestingly, out of 5 players, Ynnari's highest placing was 12th.

No FW? Thats boring, ITC is a lot more fun I guess.

Regardless, having the right buffs every game is essential for the survival of the barkstar without Azrael. If you can't take Loth, then take Tiggy at least he will have a better chance of getting that buff compared to just regular lvl2 Libbies. It is just too risky to not take Tiggy when you may play some tough armies at a even more competitive tourney or GT.

 RabbitMaster wrote:
Level of alliances are not defined from your primary detachment perspective only. If you have 3 different factions in your army, then you have A allied to B, A allied to C and B allied to C.
If Fallen and Sisters are Come the apocalypse, then they can never be in the same army (per ITC format), no matter what your primary detachment is.

Fallen and Armies of the Imperium (including Sisters) are Battle Brothers - Dark Angels are the only exception with a blanket ban on the two Faction being in the same army..

Sorry, there was a typo in my response and it should have been: "If CSM and Sisters are Come the apocalypse, then they can never be in the same army (per ITC format), no matter what your primary detachment is.

 RabbitMaster wrote:
Sorry, there was a typo in my response and it should have been: "If CSM and Sisters are Come the apocalypse, then they can never be in the same army (per ITC format), no matter what your primary detachment is.

Correct. I though they just couldn't be CtA with the primary faction. The ITC rule says with all detachments with each other. I am sad now. I want my super unfluffy list.

Lots of great lists in the past couple pages here but I have a question:

It doesn't look like anyone ever takes any air units. How are you guys dealing with enemy air units?

Since the start of the year, I routinely take a Stormtalon with skyhammer missiles. It is cheap, very good against AV10-11 flyers and to get some nice mobile ground support. It can also grab an objective i nthe late game. Against AV12 it's obviously not that great, but it still make most flyer jink which makes them a lot less of a threat. Exorcists have the same effect, specially if you talk your way a little bit "-Y'know, it can shot up to 6 times S8 AP1, so 6s are likely", "-yeah right I'll jink then".
Otherwise, pray for a skyfire mysterious objective or for those lucky 6 with meltas. All my squads have 2-4 meltas, so that's a lot. And at some point I do roll a few 6.

Also, destroying flyers is not the only way to deal with them. They have limited maneuverability in the sky, use that to your advantage and move your units where you know they won't be able to target you next turn (unless they land, *if* they can, and then you melta their face off the table). And very often, simply ignoring them is a good strategy.