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Here's a video of my second attempt at getting a Ch'Tang:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8oVxOkU8P4&feature=youtu.be

Any chance of getting a brief synopsis of your list/tactics for those of us stuck at work without access to Youtube?

 spyguyyoda wrote:


That is a nice looking fleet you've got there!

Thanks, now that Sisco is out a few of us want to do the Klingon attack on DS9.


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 DeathwingCrusader wrote:
Here's a video of my second attempt at getting a Ch'Tang:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8oVxOkU8P4&feature=youtu.be

Dude another tough one. You still did very well though. You might want to try dropping Picard for some more defensive up grades. Shooting first is nice but he draws a lot of attention.


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Gordash wrote:
Any chance of getting a brief synopsis of your list/tactics for those of us stuck at work without access to Youtube?

He can correct me later if I am wrong but for the sake of furthering discussion acording to the video he took:
Negvar class
Picard
Vorcha class
Martok
vorcha class
koloth
drex

Like in X-wing, the list you bring matters less than the movement, but there are a few things about that list I don't really like. I don't like Martok with only one target for his ability. I really don't like Koloth instead of Gowron.

If you're looking to get max attack dice, there are some pretty straightforward klingon builds that can get you where you need to be without a lot of mucking about on your part. Martok/Donatra/Gowron- the holy trinity of the Klingon Min/Max build.


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I don't mean to suggest that you shouldn't do it otherwise, and you can bring whatever you want and crush face, I just haven't seen a better Klingon Build than Two Vorchas, one Negvar, Martok/Donatra/Gowron. It's got everything you want!

The Ch'Tang is pretty awesome though. It's going into my build for OP3, which is starting to look something like this

Command Tokens 5

Neg'Var 28
Martok skill 8- 5

Ch'Tang 22
Gowron 4

Vorcha 26
Donatra 5

5 pts left over for something truly devastating. Probably Drex or advanced weapon system on Gowron.


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My plan is to simply ignore the planet and take out opposing ships. I think it's a fine strategy for OP3.

I was thinking of this

Ch'Tang 22
Koloth 4
Drex 4
Barrage fire 5

Vorcha 26
Gowron 4

Vorcha 26
martox 5

10 attack dice from the ChTang with reroll. Drex to convert battlestations. should see even the most powerfull of ships destroyed in one shot

got 4 points left not sure what to do, maybe data with gowron.

That is putting a lot of eggs in one basket. Koloth is captain skill 7, which is good, but somebody on the other side could esily have a kirk, picard, or martok shoot before you. With only 3 hull points the Ch'Tang can esily be shot out from under you before you can fire.

With 35 points out of 100 tied up in a 3 hull ship that would be the first thing I went for, easy points for your opponent. If you are dead set on using BARRAGE OF FIRE, I would recommend you at least give it to martok on the vorcha.

Baldrick speaks the truth. The Ch'Tang is awesome, but don't think of it as your main ship. It's a support ship that is better than it has any right to be. Unless you WANT one of your ships to be targeted first, you should spread around your threat among several ships.

For Example-

In OP2, I faced two fleets both using the named Cardassian ship that soaks up damage. Both fleets intended to keep their Neg'Vars/Valdores alive by transferring hits onto the Cardy ship's shields. They also had that dude on the Cardy ship that heals shield points when within range 1 of a friendly ship. In my mind, this is an expert strategy- it requires the individual piloting the fleet to have a very good grasp of the range bands so that they can keep the Cardy ship close to his own ships, but far enough away from the opposing ships that the first few turns can be used soaking up damage. What my opponents did was fly them in close formation, and I just targeted the Cardy ship because it was the easiest target- It usually went down in one turn. Since the Cardy ship is about 1/3 of the total points, my opponent now had less firepower, and their strategy was nixed.

Part of playing this game well is identifying your opponent's strategy and seeing if you can throw a wrench in it. From your list, I know your strategy right off the bat, and you've made it easily disruptable due to the Ch'Tang's glass cannon-ness. Putting some of those upgrades on one of your Vorcha's make the strategy less disruptable.

I'm playing my Klingon lists kind of samey- you may want to play something with a bit more flair- but I would drop Drex, drop Barrage of Fire, drop Koloth, put Gowron on the Ch'Tang, put Donatra on the Vorcha, take command tokens and then find yourself a 3 pt upgrade- make a Vorcha a Neg'Var and you get something like this

Command Tokens

Ch'Tang
Donatra

Vorcha
Gowron

Neg'Var
Martok

Command Tokens are great.

The above list, barring any bad maneuvering and loss of actions, will use all of it's points every single turn, and will still be able to have cloaks up every turn.

I planned on running it behind the vor'chas for range 3, and allow an extra defence dice both ways. With 10 attack dice I don't think one extra defence will help them much . Koloth does force them to re roll a 1 critical or hit. which will help as well. i don't plan on using it much any more than once . I really shouldn't need to.

now that you say that i may re consider Drex

I atually like Koloth on the ChTang. The ships ability is good offense, koloth throws in some defense. Plus he is skill 7 so he will shoot before all of the Donatras out there. It is also nice to see a pure klingon build. I am by no means a faction pure nut, I think mixing it up is great but I also don't want to see half the people at an event with the same list.

Now that LE martok is out I think my fleet will be relying less on donatra.

Fair enough on Koloth on the Ch'tang! I love that picture- he looks like he's up for a good time.

Personally I think Koloth or N'Daq are perfect for the ChTang. Either of them can keep the ship cheap and use it as a flanker while you go head on with two bigger ships. The Ch'Tangs ability makes it a perfect ship to either stay in formation and get buffs from the main group OR go off on its own to hunt down pesky things like, science vessels, praetus, or in a pinch breen cruisers.

it is a multipurpose ship, which is good to keep in mind when taking it


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So if we are talking press ganging Romulans into Klingon service what do you think of

28 Negvar class
6 Martok LE
26 vorcha
4 Gowron
22 Ch'Tang
5 Toreth
4 Attack Patter Omega

5 command tokens
100 total

Toreth with 6 attacks and a free reroll to cripple something early.

That list is great. I'm going to try it out.

Yeah, I really like that. Mmhmm...

So I just created what i think is my first "real" STAW list. I'm more a Star Wars fan, and I've been told that these facions are enemies in the shows, but I love the flight path system and this was a way to get my Trekkie friends into miniatures games.

I call it "Angry Birds, Star Trek"

Negh'Var
Martok
Photon Torpedoes (Klingon)

Khazara
Toreth
In'Cha
Joachim
Photon Torpedoes (Federation)
Advanced Weapon System

I'm not sure what the best 3pt upgrade is from here, but in case it's not obvious Martok slingshots Toreth forward, who opens up with the Torpedoes or Primary weapon to hopefully do some serious damage to a lightly shielded enemy ship. It's a strong alpha strike and the combination of increased attack dice at all times from cloak plus that vicious ability to pick and choose the best critical damage is going to really put the hurt on people.

could more experienced players comment on this strategy or ways to improve the list? That 3pt deficit makes me think I could make this more effeective somehow.

thecactusman17 wrote:
So I just created what i think is my first "real" STAW list. I'm more a Star Wars fan, and I've been told that these facions are enemies in the shows, but I love the flight path system and this was a way to get my Trekkie friends into miniatures games.

I call it "Angry Birds, Star Trek"

Negh'Var
Martok
Photon Torpedoes (Klingon)

Khazara
Toreth
In'Cha
Joachim
Photon Torpedoes (Federation)
Advanced Weapon System

I'm not sure what the best 3pt upgrade is from here, but in case it's not obvious Martok slingshots Toreth forward, who opens up with the Torpedoes or Primary weapon to hopefully do some serious damage to a lightly shielded enemy ship. It's a strong alpha strike and the combination of increased attack dice at all times from cloak plus that vicious ability to pick and choose the best critical damage is going to really put the hurt on people.

could more experienced players comment on this strategy or ways to improve the list? That 3pt deficit makes me think I could make this more effeective somehow.

In 100 point games, I always try to use 3 ships, and if I saw a heavily upgraded ship, I'd go for it first. The bad thing about Toreth; low command skill. That vessel is going to get eaten up by concentrated fire early. It just looks like all your eggs are in one basket. I like using Nu'Daq with the Kronos One and the Ktin'ga Photon Torpedoes, which will allow me to change up to two battle stations results into either a crit, or a hit... Plus, I cloak first turn anyways, then get right up on my enemy and take it out in one go. Usually, I'm firing 17 attack dice at each ship each turn.

Also, Elite Attack Die on the Negh'Var with its' ability, priceless..lol

I'm really enjoying the different builds that are coming out of our discussion. I also always try to get 3 ships in and will typically try for 75-80% of my list to be ship points.

The list with Toreth and Attack Pattern Omega is something that I hadn't thought of yet. I actually think Gowron works worse than Donatra in that list since Gowron is going to spend most of his actions on cloaking and not on his personal ability. But then you've got to regig around the list again. It's an issue of really small gains at this point, and there really is no objective best build.


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I'd like to hear how the angry bird list works. I bet the slingshot ship unleashes hell and then gets blown up by the three ships facing it down. If you can shoot a ship straight on, your opponent can shoot you back!

For me I don't like mixing the romulan amd klingon fatties in a single list. It has nothing to do with theme, it is a matter of points. I did it once with 2 negvars and a valdor and was not pleased. The place the romulans shine is with their upgrades and you won't have many points for that mixing in expensive klingons. Romulan upgrades are desined to keep your big ships in the fight frustrating the opponent while they struggle against an average 6 evade dice and 6 hull.

Khazara and toreth are a great combo and really don't get enough respect. The khazara uncloaked is the toughest ship in the game, shields & hull together she can take 10 hits to take it down not even the enterprise d can bost that. That said she is not a cheap date, if you take the Khazara you have to build around her and put in other ships to support. This usually means a mostly romulan build to save on points.

in short khazara is good but to expensive to min max with.

I think the Khazara is my article today (not sure if it's today or tomorrow). I also think you have to build around it. I think it's a better overall ship than the Valdore on account of it's movement dial. That Toreth build you got there is, like I said, pretty good.

I'd like them to release an older Spock that could be used on Romulan ships. That would be pretty neat.




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If you're using command tokens, I don't think you need Toreth given that you can set aside one attack dice on a crit anyway... unless you're thinking that you may not get the crit through... but the Ch'Tang will alpha strike a crit through a cloaked ship pretty easily on the first pass. If you're up against a federation build, just don't use the attack pattern omega.

What do you guys think about Pike with 2-3 red shirts for a 3rd federation build. Most likely your other ships will have either Picard, Kirk, or Sisko.

You don't see Pike taken that often but with him taking red shirts, or even Spock, down a point he starts to look more appealing for the 3rd chair.

Wouldn't it usually be Picard, Terell and other? Red Shirts are four point evasive maneuvers correct? I guess with Pike you could add 13 pts to your Enterprise D. I don't see it standing up to a Klingon Attack- compare Data at 3 pts- which is 2 evasive maneuvers. You're spending 10 extra points for something Data gets you more of over 2 turns. Unless I'm thinking of this wrong.

The red shirt cancels an attack die of your choice. So a crit, the ELITE ATTACK DIE, the new command tokens that can set a die to any side could be canceled by one red shirt. Data can't let you pick what to cancel and he makes you -2 attacks, plus uses an action. The red shirt is just a discard.

They are 4 points each, but with pike they become 3 and they are NOT unique. There is also they theory that you could take Wayoun as captain and use his anility to use one the same red shirt over and over. Wayoun can be disabled to keep you from discarding a crew for its ability. But that means you ship is doing nothing but enabling Wayoun the whole game. However 6-9 points with Pike the cancel attack dice of you choice os not a bad thought.

I would not take them on a non federation ship, but 1 or 2 of them attached to Pike is doable.

Oh, I see. It's attack dice of choice. I assume though, that you're not really going to encounter the EAD too often, and that you're always going to want to cancel crits before hits anyway, so I'm still not loving the red shirt, unless you specifically built for it. That's the thing about this game- I think most things can be effective if you specifically build around them.

Has anyone used Geordi to any great effect yet? Has anyone run the math on him vs spock?

There are a few guys in my area that are big on the attack die. Sorry I have not really seen anyone use Geordi. I think a guy I played in OP2 had him on a ship but never used him.

Yeah I'd like to see the math on Geordi but am too inept to do it myself. It would seem to me like Spock is better, but I'd like to know by how much.

Just got back from my OP2 event I won! Went 3 and 0 with 300pts and lost 16pts with my Romulan build

IRW Valdore 30
Cpt Valdore 3
Ferengi Missile Launchers 3+1

Valdore Class 28
Cpt Donatra 4

Science Vessel 12
Cpt Romulan
Muon Wave Device 4

Science Vessel 12
Cpt Romulan
Cloaked mines 3

Congrats strangedude,

How did the science vessels fair?

Did you feel like the ferengi missile launcher made up its points? I was hesitant to take one, expected a lot of cloaked ships.

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
Congrats strangedude,

How did the science vessels fair?

Did you feel like the ferengi missile launcher made up its points? I was hesitant to take one, expected a lot of cloaked ships.

Cheers

I find the science vessel is a vastly underated ship I have a tendency to use them with low skill pilots to firstly deploy some choice upgrades (muon tokens are pretty damn effective because they limit your opponents moves or cause damage and even after that take an action from them to rid themselves of it) and after that can be used to foul your opponents flight paths (again denying actions) or shoot to add more firepower (range 1 with donatra is a respectable 3 dice).

The Ferengi Missile Launcher was pretty awesome or should I say the IRW Valdore with Valdore captaining it and Donatra nearby was pretty awesome in every game I got a shot off with it with a 5 dice and 4 dice shot (2 basic +1 donatra +1 Valdore +1 to one of them for green move) which isn't to be sniffed at for something that costs 3pts (4 out of faction) and require no target lock to use.

The folks at the tournie were quite varied in both their skill and choice of tactics and ships. I fought 2 federation builds; one defiant, constitution and Enterprise D (Riker; Khan and Picard) and a two ship Enterprise D and Defiant (Picard and Kirk) with the last game against a 3 ship Rom/Kling Dederix Valdore Vorcha (Toreth; Donatra; NuDa?).

Congrats Strange Dude. Thanks for the thoughts on the science vessel. I mostly prefer to take it as the named one, but I can see how using a couple of them with upgrades could be useful.

I fought two battles defending a Nor-class space station at the 2013 Winnipeg Comic Con. I also got an autograph from Avery Brooks (Captain Sisko).

Here's a 100-point battle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaZkVnJBisA

Here's a huge battle with 540 points on the table - my two opponents had 135 points each against my 270:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6ae95GTixE

Good times.

Nice videos

Though it does seem that the klingons had them out gunned in the second game. Thanks for sharing I love seeing bigger games played.