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I've been playing around with Engage Builds and have finally got something that's worth testing

Ent-D
Picard
Engage
Spock
Antimatter Mines
Uhura

Maht-Ha
Kirk
Corbomite maneuver+Engage
Advanced weapon system
Kerla

The Maht'Ha was chosen because of the number of green movements, and the Ent-D get's significantly better if you can move it properly. Corbomite Manuever and Uhura are insurance against terrible move choices. Spock makes the Ent D more effective. Both captains shoot first and can focus fire one ship a turn.

Interesting build. I am still torn between klingons and romulans. Klingons have the firepower but romulans can get all of the shenanigans cheap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think CORBOMITE MANEUVER is a good option for Kirk if the catch you from behind. I don't really see ENGAGE doing much for the M'Tah. It takes your action and you get an auxiliary power token. I think you would do better using that action soe sensor echo and not taking to AP token.

For the points ATTACK PATTERN DELTA might be better to reroll defence dice.

The fleet I used in our local op event seems to be on a completely different line of thought from most of the others on this thread. Thought i would post it for advice and see what you guys think.

Named Negh'var - 30
Koloth - 4
Kommel - 4

Vorcha - 26
Klingon capt - 0

D7 - 16
Gowron - 4

D7 - 16
Klingon capt - 0

The idea is that they stay together as a fairly close block of ships so gowron's extra attack buff affects all three other ships (he is on a d7 because so far most of my opponents don't look at a d7 and see a threat, which means he keeps buffing for longer). Negh'var is always going to absorb hits as a main priority so kommel and koloth are there to keep it alive and annoying people.
Going for sheer quantity of attack dice.

Its not a bad list at all. Though this are different in different areas. Close flying that many ships would not be good if your opponent has some anti matter mines. There are a few guys in my area that like to use them.

Personally I don't care for the D7. I think it got cheated. If it could cloak I would use it, but as is I don't use the 2 I have very much. Given that it only has 3 hull and 1 shield it will be shot out from under you quite often.

Now 5 of them with LE martok, koloth, gowron, and donatra for 99 points that I might worry about.

In my local op 2 event it was a romulan player with mines that won the event hands down - mix of mines, orbital platform and his shooting just stopped all of his opponents in their tracks without taking too much damage himself. Pure luck that I didn't play him.

Might look into your idea, that could work.

Thanks

 whitehorn wrote:
In my local op 2 event it was a romulan player with mines that won the event hands down - mix of mines, orbital platform and his shooting just stopped all of his opponents in their tracks without taking too much damage himself. Pure luck that I didn't play him.

Might look into your idea, that could work.

Thanks

Whereabouts are you based and where did you play?

Im based in Essex. This is the point where you are going to turn out to have been at the same event isn't it?

Edit:

Looking at your prior posts, you were the guy that won the event I'm talking about, weren't you?

 whitehorn wrote:
Im based in Essex. This is the point where you are going to turn out to have been at the same event isn't it?

Edit:

Looking at your prior posts, you were the guy that won the event I'm talking about, weren't you?

Not guilty unless you travelled all the way up to Sheffield where I played, but I was wondering.

Your fleet is exactly the same as the guy that won my local event, thought the world had just got really small again.

Proves the tactic is sound, though.

 whitehorn wrote:
Your fleet is exactly the same as the guy that won my local event, thought the world had just got really small again.

Proves the tactic is sound, though.

Whoa and there's me thinking I was being all original and flying against convention and somebody else comes up with the same plan.

Ha ha, weird how often that happens.

I tested out my Engage build against a klingon fleet. The Enterprise D with Engage is a beast. That core of the list is fantastic. Won 2 lost 2, but the two losses were about being surprised by Chang, and not activating Uhura at a critical moment. The fleet definitely needs to be piloted by someone who knows what they're doing and has experience running it.

I tried Kirk out on the Kraxon but didn't like it- the 180 firing arc is pretty good though, so I'd consider running it again.

Engage on the Vor''Cha is used to make sure it can go toe to toe against a three ship attack build. Most of the time, you'll be able to avoid shooting, but you'll need it for hairy situations. I continue to test the list out, but so far it's looking like what I'm going to take to OP3.

So, I picked the game up, going head first with starter and an additional Klingon, Romulan and Miranda ship. I'm thinking Khan in the Enterprise D with Joachim and N'Vek as crew, plasma torpedos and counter attack (Khan makes all upgrades faction-penalty free) along with Clark Terrell in the basic Miranda and Donatra in the IRW Khazara. Donatra and Terrell use their abilities to boost Khan, so he can go nuts with his focus bonus and hopefully get a round of combining the plasma torpedo ability with his focus ability. It's 100 right on the money. If Donatra in the IRW costs a faction penalty because it's a different ship/captain from the other two, I can drop the IRW to the basic D'deridex freeing up 2 points to fit the faction penalty in. Thoughts?

I like your list, but would make one suggestion. If you are using khan you want to use battle stations as your action every turn, espesially if he is on the Ent D because it can shoot 360. So I say ditch the plasma torpedoes and give terell and the reliant 5 shot photons and use it a a little gun boat. That should but you at 99 pts and you will have initiative over other fleets.

you are fine, there is no faction cost for donatra on the khazara, its a romulan ship and she is a romulan, its all good in the family.

Sweet. Since you seem to have been playing the most on here, I was hoping to get your thoughts. I assume with doing that, I'm taking the Khazara down to the regular version, not the upgraded ship? Feels like the list has pretty decent synergy, as long as the captains stick together.

If I added it right off the top of my head, given the changes I suggested that puts you at 101, so I would say drop Na vek, and keep the khazara.
Navek is good and cheap on points but he takes up an action and khan should be using that action for battle stations. You want to keep the khazara it will give donatra an extra attack if fireing while cloaked and an extra shield when uncloaked.

So, how is Praetus and Khazara good again? Khazara is just a big tugboat that can't really be maneuvered right and Praetus just kills itself...

I like the Valdore though, might try to run a Triple Valdore list sometime in the future, but for now, anyways, I'll stick with Klingons.

The romulans don't have the attacks klingons do, so the key to making them work is using their crazy good tech upgrades and sensor echo to move you into a firing position and out of your enemy's. Don't just charge at someone like an angry klingon think trickster style.

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
The romulans don't have the attacks klingons do, so the key to making them work is using their crazy good tech upgrades and sensor echo to move you into a firing position and out of your enemy's. Don't just charge at someone like an angry klingon think trickster style.

Well, I was netting a good 7+ shots a turn with Khazara, until I couldn't get my enemy ships into its' firing arc... :/

Nice, I am not saying it isn't possible to have one or 2 big shooters in a romulan fleet. Unlike klingons who can have multiple heavy hitters. With romulans it is kind of 2 sided either you build to be tricky or build for 2 heavies and a light weight. Romulan ships are so pricy it is difficult to fit 3 big ships and up grades in a list. It is possible to fit 3 valdors in a list and some good captains, but not much else.

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
Nice, I am not saying it isn't possible to have one or 2 big shooters in a romulan fleet. Unlike klingons who can have multiple heavy hitters. With romulans it is kind of 2 sided either you build to be tricky or build for 2 heavies and a light weight. Romulan ships are so pricy it is difficult to fit 3 big ships and up grades in a list. It is possible to fit 3 valdors in a list and some good captains, but not much else.

Yeah, I was just a little disappointed in the performance of the IRW Praetus, Here's what I ran.

Khazara - Toreth -Tactical Officer

Valdore - Donatra - All Forward Disrupters

Praetus - Valdore - Cloaked Mines - Plasma Torpedoes

And the Praetus dealt one damage to itself first move by cloaking... Then a 5th Wing attack ship came over and blew it up in the same turn... :/ Enterprise-era vessels should NOT be played seriously...lol

The Khazara's movement dial is fantastic. White Turn 2 and 3 is very rare on a ship.

It looks like you put a bit too many points into your Praetus.

I think Toreth works best on the Valdore since you can green and get 5 attacks.

Plague: You asked a question in the other thread about OP3 strategies. I've tested the scenario a few times now and I'm not convinced that domination of the planet is a realistic goal within the time limits of tournament play. If you get it, great, but I'd rather be attacking opposing ships than attacking the planet. If you're thinking of going the one rear ship to dominate the planet route, I'd take a naked science vessel. Otherwise, my play style is not really being affected by the scenario. If I can't get an attack off on my opponent, I'll go for the planet, but otherwise I want to destroy their fleet asap, like in every other match.

Here's my OP3 Build

IRW Praetus
Gowron
Cloaked Mine
Cloaked Mine

K'Tinga Class
Donatra

K'Tinga Class
Terrel

B'rel Class
GenKhan

This could be a very nasty build IMO, but I haven't had enough practice maneuvering. So I'll likely end up making a mess of my movements. I see this as more training as I am not thrilled with the prizes.

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:


Yeah, I was just a little disappointed in the performance of the IRW Praetus, Here's what I ran.

Khazara - Toreth -Tactical Officer

Valdore - Donatra - All Forward Disrupters

Praetus - Valdore - Cloaked Mines - Plasma Torpedoes

And the Praetus dealt one damage to itself first move by cloaking... Then a 5th Wing attack ship came over and blew it up in the same turn... :/ Enterprise-era vessels should NOT be played seriously...lol

I too have been disappointed by the performance of the praetus, however I an trying to use it more as my sneak attack then a mine layer.

This weekend I managed to get my hands on the Aj'rmr, so now I can throw the weapons array on it so hopefully it will be more useful for what I want.

Okay, so I plan on writing about Cloaked mines very soon, but I really don't like them in multiples. If I see someone running Cloaked Mines, my plan is to get to them asap (and stay out of arcs etc., on the way but you get my drift). You don't want to drop them first turn, and by the third turn your ships should be close enough that the cloaked mines aren't going to be able to be dropped effectively. I'd only recommend one set of cloaked mines per ship. YMMV.

Donatra + Terell in a 4 ship build is great.

Why use GenKhan and not lvl9Martok? In a 4 ship build, lvl9 Martok is great.

I wouldn't run a naked B'rel- the named ship is so much better. Drop a mine, take the named ship.

csimian wrote:
Here's my OP3 Build

IRW Praetus
Gowron
Cloaked Mine
Cloaked Mine

K'Tinga Class
Donatra

K'Tinga Class
Terrel

B'rel Class
GenKhan

This could be a very nasty build IMO, but I haven't had enough practice maneuvering. So I'll likely end up making a mess of my movements. I see this as more training as I am not thrilled with the prizes.

I like this build I lost my 3rd game in OP3 to a very similar list. While trying to avoid the mines all of those little buzzing ships start to hurt.

Gordash wrote:
Okay, so I plan on writing about Cloaked mines very soon, but I really don't like them in multiples. If I see someone running Cloaked Mines, my plan is to get to them asap (and stay out of arcs etc., on the way but you get my drift). You don't want to drop them first turn, and by the third turn your ships should be close enough that the cloaked mines aren't going to be able to be dropped effectively. I'd only recommend one set of cloaked mines per ship. YMMV.

Donatra + Terell in a 4 ship build is great.

Why use GenKhan and not lvl9Martok? In a 4 ship build, lvl9 Martok is great.

I wouldn't run a naked B'rel- the named ship is so much better. Drop a mine, take the named ship.

I plan on using the Cloaked Mines mostly to disrupt my opponent's movement so I can gain control of the planet. I plan on placing them on either side of the planet. If they have a FWD 5 capable ship, I'll make sure I make the minefields cover the planet, else I will "block off" a large section of the map. If they go through the mines, I'm OK with that

GenKhan is simply cheap for the skill level and I am at 100 points.

Gordash wrote:
Okay, so I plan on writing about Cloaked mines very soon, but I really don't like them in multiples. If I see someone running Cloaked Mines, my plan is to get to them asap (and stay out of arcs etc., on the way but you get my drift). You don't want to drop them first turn, and by the third turn your ships should be close enough that the cloaked mines aren't going to be able to be dropped effectively. I'd only recommend one set of cloaked mines per ship. YMMV.

Donatra + Terell in a 4 ship build is great.

Why use GenKhan and not lvl9Martok? In a 4 ship build, lvl9 Martok is great.

I wouldn't run a naked B'rel- the named ship is so much better. Drop a mine, take the named ship.

I am really starting to hate them. The game I lost was against a list that had 3 of them. Over on BGG Andrew Parks even admitted that they never imagined that people would take multiples when they designed them. Personally I would like to see them be unique, because there is really no way to deal with them.

-Gordash
I tried the above plan, first turn he moves directly opposite me leaving one behind him, then layed 2 in front of him making a nice bubble over a quarter of the board. He placed them very well so as you left one you entered another. So it was an up hill battle. In the end though it was the ships that hurt me not the mines. I was avoiding the mines well, but due to avoiding them GOT MYSELF into some bad spots.

I understood from the FAQ that you only get shot at by one set of mines, even where there is overlap. Make sure that your opponent isn't ganking you.

I just think they need more playing against and you'll find strategic counters. I've been playing with an Engage Build recently, so I rush first turn forward towards the opponent- in the Enterprise D, you can effectively move a straight 7 (3+3+ship base (1)). That brings you close enough that you aren't in range of anything, and far enough that sure, they can drop the one mine in front of them, but they won't get to drop two.

Following that, take a few hits to my shields and go to town. I actually haven't found them to be too onerous yet. That being said, if you're relying upon cloaks for survival, cloaked mines are going to wreak havoc- I think this is a good way to curb the Klingon Meta and open up play space. In OP2, people were still running Klingon builds even with the OWP- things were getting a bit too good for that attack build.

I've read that Andrew Parks admitted to the multiples issues. I'd like to know what was being playtested at the time- from my understanding, most of the first four waves were tested against each other and were not tested in waves.

One of the bigger advantages is that a person can use the measuring stick in the planning phase to drop the things- if you cross reference your straight templates with your attack template, you could do some premeasuring in the planning phase. That's an abuse that I don't really think benefits the game too much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There's always scan!

Gordash wrote:
I understood from the FAQ that you only get shot at by one set of mines, even where there is overlap. Make sure that your opponent isn't ganking you.

I just think they need more playing against and you'll find strategic counters. I've been playing with an Engage Build recently, so I rush first turn forward towards the opponent- in the Enterprise D, you can effectively move a straight 7 (3+3+ship base (1)). That brings you close enough that you aren't in range of anything, and far enough that sure, they can drop the one mine in front of them, but they won't get to drop two.

Following that, take a few hits to my shields and go to town. I actually haven't found them to be too onerous yet. That being said, if you're relying upon cloaks for survival, cloaked mines are going to wreak havoc- I think this is a good way to curb the Klingon Meta and open up play space. In OP2, people were still running Klingon builds even with the OWP- things were getting a bit too good for that attack build.

I've read that Andrew Parks admitted to the multiples issues. I'd like to know what was being playtested at the time- from my understanding, most of the first four waves were tested against each other and were not tested in waves.

One of the bigger advantages is that a person can use the measuring stick in the planning phase to drop the things- if you cross reference your straight templates with your attack template, you could do some premeasuring in the planning phase. That's an abuse that I don't really think benefits the game too much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There's always scan!

If you enter a Cloaked Minefield, then leave its area of effect and enter a second Cloaked Minefield's area of effect (not counting the overlap), then you take damage from both.

If I see an Engage or Incha-based fleet in OP3, then I will simply line my ships to one side of the planet at the very back of the deployment area and move forward 1" and let them come to me.