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csimian wrote:

If you enter a Cloaked Minefield, then leave its area of effect and enter a second Cloaked Minefield's area of effect (not counting the overlap), then you take damage from both.

If I see an Engage or Incha-based fleet in OP3, then I will simply line my ships to one side of the planet at the very back of the deployment area and move forward 1" and let them come to me.

Thus the problem with cloaked mines. Also not everyone can scan either. In this respect for once the dominion has the advantage.

Hmm.. I could get rid of one Cloaked Mine, replace the Praetus with a generic Romulan Science Vessel and give GenKhan Barrage of Fire. Tempting

ummm...

"11. If the trigger areas for two Cloaked Mines overlap, does an enemy ship passing through the overlapping trigger area sustain damage from both Cloaked Mines?

No. In this case the ship would only be damaged by one of the Cloaked Mines.

However, if a ship passes through (and completely out of) the trigger area of one Cloaked Mine and into the trigger area of another Cloaked Mine, then the ship sustains damage from both Cloaked Mines."

The way I'm reading this is that in order to take damage, you have to move from an area completely out of the trigger area, into the trigger area, then completely out of the trigger area and into a new trigger area... on the same turn... in order to get hit by two mines. You don't get hit if you START in the trigger area and move out. The people that are playing it that way are wrong. If your ship doesn't move "completely out of" the area, it doesn't take damage from both mines- I'm interested to know whether completely out of means that the entirety of your base would have to be able to occupy a space outside of one of the minefields. I'll probably ask Andrew tonight on the BGG forums.

If you're getting hit by two triggers/turn, you've taken some upgrades that allow you to move twice and have done so in the worst way possible, or your movement overlapped two trigger areas and a wide space between those areas- in both cases, it sounds like a pretty terrible movement phase for you. And if there is ANY overlap, you only get hit by one mine on your fly through.

Unless you're flying aggressively, you should only get hit by one mine/turn and decide whether it's time to scan or not.

You should be able to take sensor echo as a way to get out of the field. THAT's a solution I could get behind, since it forces the player to decide re echo or cloak.


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... if I thought they were a problem, which I dont.

Gordash you CANNOT sensor echo out of the mine field if you ship passes within range 1 of the mine field at any point in its movement you are hit. So once you put your move template down at any point as you move the ship along the template if it gets with in range one the mines go off. Sensor echo is at the end of your inital movement so it doesn't help you as far as the mines are concerned.

Yes. I am aware. I was proposing it as a potential solution to the problem- if you immediately SE out of the trigger area, you don't get hit in addition to the scan mitigation. That would have been a decent addition to the card.

I see what you mean now.

After thinking it over I believe it should have been one of those things that was 5 exyra points to put on any other ship. At 8 points on another romulan ship or 9 out of faction people would think before taking so many. It would also have been a good reeason to take a generic praetus which is kind of worthless right now.

seriously Park & Guild could see the Breen ED and Federation Cloak as abusive but not cloaked mines where were they on this one.

I can only speculate, but I think their meta is different- which is to say that they didn't spend a lot of time playing OP3 with only wave 1 and 2 ships. I think that the OP tournaments were probably made late in the process, after most of the ships had already been designed.

I think that having all the ships available probably skews the playtesting process... I actually don't think that the Federation Cloak at 5pts was seen as abusive- I think that its a flavourful move to make it more expensive to put on any ship and not really that it would be amazing on other ships.




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That cloaked mines are REALLY good is not up for debate. They are REALLY good. They are really efficient and good for what they do. Are they too good? I think a lot of the problem stems from the fact that they affect the movement phase- which is the phase that requires the most skill- and makes that phase harder.

I really think that the metagame shifted significantly with Wave 2. It's like when a new MtG set changes all the previous decks- Wave 2 was a big shock to the status quo of Klingon Attack Builds and Cloaked Mines are that big shock.

So far we haven't seen the big cards from the new wave yet, but Alexander is great tool against Cloaked Mines- sure you take a hit, but now you have a free action on a ship that gets significantly better with Battlestations.

I don't think cloaked mines are going to change the klingon builds that much. I can see it decreasing cross faction builds with klingon ships, to allow the player to put more points into hull value over outside captains.

in all I was pleased with how my list did in OP3. I won my first 2 rounds and lost my last by one hull point, so I can not complain too much. I came in 2nd and got an Aj'rmr which is the most important thing. Soo many romulan goodies in that pack.

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
I don't think cloaked mines are going to change the klingon builds that much. I can see it decreasing cross faction builds with klingon ships, to allow the player to put more points into hull value over outside captains.

in all I was pleased with how my list did in OP3. I won my first 2 rounds and lost my last by one hull point, so I can not complain too much. I came in 2nd and got an Aj'rmr which is the most important thing. Soo many romulan goodies in that pack.

What were other people's fleets like? Any surprises?

I'm probably taking my Engage Build to OP3 in two weeks. I need to test it out a bit more though. I'm not convinced that the 4 ship strategy that a lot of people are touting is going to work for me. I want to make sure that I can deploy on the same side as my opponent, so I want really high skill captains- Picard for sure and possibly Kirk. The problem with the second ship in the Engage Build is that nothing is really as good as the Enterprise D... so I'm stuck on deciding between the Vorcha and the Valdore. I tried out the Galor, but didn't like the movement. I may be forcing Engage onto a second ship when I really should just be happy with my 50 pt Enterprise.

The D with Engage is my favourite ship in the game right now. It's so much fun to play.

csimian wrote:


What were other people's fleets like? Any surprises?

first up my fleet
Negvar class
Martok (regular)
Hull plating

Negvar class
Picard
Hull plating

ChTang
Gowron

and if IRRC
round 1
Negvar
Klingon Captain

MaTah
Martok

Defiant
Gowron

He had stuffmon the ships but I can't remember what. I won this game and never lost a ship. Sensor echo threw him off wnd he only focused on the planet the first few turns. Turn 3 I think I got him down to 1 ship then chased him with the ChTang and took the planet from him. I never though about using the defiant in klingon fleet before but he got me thinking...

round 2
Enterprise D
Picard
Sulu

MaTah
GEN Khan
Cheat Death
cloaked mines

science vessel
sar
cloaked mines

This was my favorite game this guy really new how to fly his ships ( probably why he won the OP) and he was a great person. The game was close, in one turn my picard and Gen Kahn killed each other in a simultaneous attack. The last turn was just my ChTang and his science vessel. I one shotted him, but he had the planet. Great game.

Round 3
Khazara
Valdor
cloaked mines

Preatus
Donatra
cloaked mines
cloaked mines

B'rel class
klingon captain

B'rel class
klingon captain

I screwed my self this game, tried too hard to avoid the mines. Should have just gone for it. Martok and Gowron got Khazara down to 1 hull, but khazara returned fire and took out Gowron. Then everyone gang banged martok. Wasted too many turns flying picard around the planet.

Oh well even if I wom I was still goimg for 2nd place the guy I beat in round 2 won his other 2 games and had the planet in both.

Other lists I did not play
federation pure list
Ent D
Picard
sulu
spock

defiant
sisko
quantums

reliant
terrel
and stuff

klingon pure
negvar
Martok

vorcha
chang

kronos one
krell
photons

and there was a mixed klingon list in there too but I have no idea what he had. I did here him say his negvar was one shotted by the guy with picard and spock. Apparently rolled 2 hits and 3 crits. He evaded one and two of the crits were double damage... Ouch town population you bro.

Thats it we had a bye the first round and the klingon pure guy left before round 2 started nursing a hangover. I should have another later this week we will see how yhat goes.

On one of the "Cloaked Mines are OP!!!OHNOES!" threads on BGG, Andrew Parks has said the following:


"Just to gather more information on our end, are people who are devastated by Cloaked Mines running builds that Scan and repair Shields?

It is clear that big naked ships running cloaked in close formation will do particularly bad against Cloaked Mines, but how are other builds faring?

Andrew "

They're interested in more information, and from what I see, cloaked mines could have been designed to hose tight klingon formations.

Unfortunately in our OP the federation guy never player the 3 cloaked mine guy. He lost to the guy with 2, but I think his Ent D taking a core breach early had a lot to do with that. The guy with 3 played against mostly the klingon lists, go figure.

I think I'll be trying this out for my OP3 tomorrow:

Romulan Science Vessel
Gowron (he can do science!)
Cloaked Mine

K'Tinga
GenKhan
Barrage of Fire

K'Tinga
Terrel

B'rel
Donatra

100 points

The RSV will move up in the middle of the field to deploy mines on the side of the planet the opposing force veers to. If the opposing fleet is using In'Chas or Engages to deny mine deployment, then I will save the mines for later.

Donatra will be GenKhan's wingman. I'll use GenKhan to alpha (if I can get into range) any big ship or if they bum-rushed me.

I figure this gives me a little of everything with a fair amount of attack dice, Barrage of Fire, one set of Cloaked Mines and 4 ships to conduct the ground battle. Thoughts?

The one cloaked mine is good stuff. The Barrage of Fire isn't bad with GenKhan, just don't pop it right away. I still think the B'rel is so outclassed by the named ship.

Gordash wrote:
The one cloaked mine is good stuff. The Barrage of Fire isn't bad with GenKhan, just don't pop it right away. I still think the B'rel is so outclassed by the named ship.

2nd that on the ChTang. It is a free target lock every time you are cloaked & it works against cloaked ships for only 2 more points. I would think about ddropping something for it. Will pay off in the long run.

In that it works against cloaked ships, it's SO much better than a normal target lock. Ch'Tang with Advanced Weapon System is pretty good as well.

True it is not a real target lock, it is better. As we had to point out to someone at my last OP because you can't use that romulan tactical officer with the ChTang's ability

Ok ok. You sold me on the 'Tang

So far my list has the following

Romulan Science Vessel
Gowron
Cloaked Mine

K'Tinga
Donatra

K'Tinga
Terrel

IKS Ch'Tang
Martok (standard)

I now have Martok so he can provide another action which may be very useful and flexible.

I have 2 points remaining. I could upgrade the RSV to the Apnex; a K'Tinga to Kronos One; or add a cheap crew member.

Regular Martok is good in this list.

Honestly I would think of upgrading to LE martok. Most of the time the regular martok's free action is used so gowron can cloak & buff in the same turn, but on a science vessel he will probably won't be shooting much. So gowrons action is free most of the time for buffing other ships. So use the LE martok to really boost those k'tingas and with his captain skill 9 there is little chance of a picard one shotting him before you can fire. Remember only 3 hull on the chtang. A picard valdor/negvar could easily take it out, even with a cloak.

I figured that this is a list that could benefit from a sensor echo over +1 attacks, which is why I thought that regular martok was better- I generally think that regular Martok is better, since it opens up actions, rather than buffs.

Regular Martok also gives an action while LE Martok requires an action for the buffs


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Of course with the 2 points left I could just replace Martok with Picard


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I think I like that, the 'Tang could use Battlestations....

csimian wrote:
Regular Martok also gives an action while LE Martok requires an action for the buffs


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Of course with the 2 points left I could just replace Martok with Picard


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I think I like that, the 'Tang could use Battlestations....

Battle stations is always good. With the reroll you can save it for defense.

Picard on the Ch'Tang is a bit redundant. Picard on a Neg'Var being pumped up by Donatra and Gowron - delicious.

Wow, when the dice aren't with you the are against you!

I played in my second OP3 last night. I did terrible, lost all three games. There was nothing stellar about my opponents, my luck was just BAD.

I tried something a little different fleet wise:
negvar class
martok
hull plating

vorcha
khan
hull plating
attack pattern omega

chtang
koloth

In all I think it has potential, however I think my klingons were offended by the presence of khan. I counted through all three games (except planet rolls aced them) I only had 2 attack rolls with more than 2 hits One round I had khan fixed on a reliant with no shields and whiffed on all dice. Same turn had martok shooting at an uncloaked vorcha in the back at close rankge... 2 hits I hade the planet in all three games, game 2 I lost by one point, but it was a good friend so I don't mind too much. In all an awful night for my fleet, the only bright note was that I picked up a 2nd AJ'RMR for being the red shirt.

Oh well, regroup and plan again. Though next time Khan is staying at home.

Which Khan did you use? What was the rationale for putting him on a Vor'cha, which can't get Battlestations? or do you have access to GenKhan?

The rationale was he is still skill 8 and no faction penalty for upgrades and to be a little different all of the players took picard. Its a little boring to see him everywhere.

I feel your pain. I couldn't seem to roll hits or evades last night. I lost two rounds and had a bye for the third since I was doing so badly.

Oh well. Time to start thinking of OP4....

Ah, well, my advice would be- don't take Khan again in that situation- but you seemed to have figured that out already!