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Hey im planning too use vanguard squad for my raven guard army but idk whats the best way too equipped with

I love jumpacks and giving half the squad LC or some form of Power weapons.

I like 2 power fist/ 4 storm shield

but I rarely use them :/

Being able to own two squads at once is situationally handy. Like everything else, they have to survive the shooting phases.

If I use them, I give the sergeant lightning claws and everyone melta bombs. (And jump packs.)

Ofernandez wrote:
Hey im planning too use vanguard squad for my raven guard army but idk whats the best way too equipped with

I think it's too expensive to go wild on the power weapons. If you want power armor power weapon users, look to Honor Guard.

As for Vanguard, I think Jump Packs are obvious, especially for RG. After that I'd do 50% with melta bombs and one hidden power axe somewhere. Champion has options but a single claw and SS is pretty good for tanking challenges and still being a threat.

if your going to hide a power axe, take a power fist. I like to use the one PF per 5 men.

This is a nice points efficient way to kit out yo vets.




the guy in the back is magnetised. Guy in the front is a cm with armor indomitus. add a chappie with powerfist to complete the circle of ownage.

and not a single bolt pistol was fired that day.

I like to give my RG Vanguard Veterans the basic loadout and melta bombs, and the Sgt gets dual LC (just because RG).

Looks like more people are giving a few models both a single LC and then a PF or Thunderhammer for the ability to pick and choose what to attack with while retaining the additional attack.

With VV, there is a fine line between overdoing their upgrades and not having redundancy. In a game I played the other week, I went up against a 10-man squad led by Shrike, they had JP, one TH/SS, one 2xLC, and one Power Sword. By the end of 1 turn of shooting between a captain, some snipers and a tactical squad, precision hits had taken out all 3 upgrades, and reduced the squad to overpriced ASM. By the time they reached my lines, there was 2 VV and Shrike left, and they lacked the power to kill anything.

So I'd say you want a 1:1 mix of upgrades to barebones, to give you that redundancy. In a squad of 10, I'd suggest 2 power swords, 2 power axes and then a fist/hammer+SS or 2xLC. That's a load out I run on my wolf Guard and they have the survivability of 5 extra guys while still hitting hard enough to wreck face on most targets.

Ideally, you want your VV guarding a character, either a tooled-up captain or a Chaplain, to add to the killing power or make the squad more reliable.

 Paradigm wrote:

Ideally, you want your VV guarding a character, either a tooled-up captain or a Chaplain, to add to the killing power or make the squad more reliable.

VV vets with a Chaplain are simply awesome. Especially if you give them JP and run RG Chapter Tactics.

 d-usa wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

Ideally, you want your VV guarding a character, either a tooled-up captain or a Chaplain, to add to the killing power or make the squad more reliable.

VV vets with a Chaplain are simply awesome. Especially if you give them JP and run RG Chapter Tactics.

As I wrote that, I had an evil idea brewing of a 10-man JP VV squad with a Teeth Of Terra JP chaplain. Re-rolls, huge volume of attacks, and a leader that can hack through entire squads. Swap Teeth for Burning Blade if you want a challenge-winner instead. Serious xenos/heretic behind would be kicked if you can get this squad into CC.

 Paradigm wrote:
With VV, there is a fine line between overdoing their upgrades and not having redundancy. In a game I played the other week, I went up against a 10-man squad led by Shrike, they had JP, one TH/SS, one 2xLC, and one Power Sword. By the end of 1 turn of shooting between a captain, some snipers and a tactical squad, precision hits had taken out all 3 upgrades, and reduced the squad to overpriced ASM.

One way to avoid this situation is just give all your vanguard vets jump packs and nothing else. Let them use their massed attacks (rerollable hammer of wrath plus 4 attacks on the charge) to overwhelm opponents without the need for expensive melee upgrades.

Then use the points you saved to buy more guys.

I've been having good success with just giving them all meltabombs (and jump packs) to take on monstrous creatures.

I agree, leaving them bare with just JP is pretty nice in and of itself, getting an extra attack and better Ld over an AM squad for just a few points. The only problem there is that they then fill exactly the same roll, that of killing light infantry, which something equal points of AM could probably handle. Meltabombs can counter this, giving them a bit more versatility, but on the other hand, it also boosts the cost while only making them more specialised and dividing their roles.

 Paradigm wrote:
With VV, there is a fine line between overdoing their upgrades and not having redundancy. In a game I played the other week, I went up against a 10-man squad led by Shrike, they had JP, one TH/SS, one 2xLC, and one Power Sword. By the end of 1 turn of shooting between a captain, some snipers and a tactical squad, precision hits had taken out all 3 upgrades, and reduced the squad to overpriced ASM.

I wonder if this was more of a case of a single squad being focus fired on. I'm not sure if bulking up the squad would add as much protection as taking a second squad to split incoming fire.

I could see leaving off power fists, but I would never leave home without my four storm shields for 40 pts. The Storm shield guys in the front are great for griefing plasma and the like.

 minigun762 wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
With VV, there is a fine line between overdoing their upgrades and not having redundancy. In a game I played the other week, I went up against a 10-man squad led by Shrike, they had JP, one TH/SS, one 2xLC, and one Power Sword. By the end of 1 turn of shooting between a captain, some snipers and a tactical squad, precision hits had taken out all 3 upgrades, and reduced the squad to overpriced ASM.

I wonder if this was more of a case of a single squad being focus fired on. I'm not sure if bulking up the squad would add as much protection as taking a second squad to split incoming fire.

Focusing fire did have a lot to do with it, as it was half his points in a 1k point game. VV do need to be properly supported more than anything else, either by another vet squad or some AM running up with them.

Of course, with full squads, you can save on FOC slots and combat squad, doubling your target saturation and splitting weapons. However, this does lead to them losing some power, ceding more KP and being easier to destroy. My ideal set up would be:
10 VV
2 swords
2 axes
1 hammer
5 bare.

Either in a LRC/R or with JP, depending on points, and led by a chaplain either way.

I don't think there is a general consensus on how to arm Vanguard other than to keep it as cheap as possible.

If I ran them I would probably do 1 power sword, 1 thunder hammer, 1 melta bomb per 5.

Not a SM player but I've had a look over the new 'Dex. I'd probably go for Jump Packs, Power Weapon/Relic Blade on the Champion and 2 Storm Shields, possibly a Melta Bomb tossed somewhere in the squad.

I like to take mine with 3 StormShields (one goes to the Serg) and 2x Lightning Claws. That way I can lock up tougher units. I managed to hold Mephiston in combat for 4 turns with just a 6 man squad, even put a wound on him.

I play BA and some occasional games with my friends RG.

For both armies I like to have 5 guys with JP's. Two with nothing but Storm Shields (meatshields) and 3 (including the Sgt.) with Power Sword/Axe depending of who are you facing. Add a killy HQ such as Captain (or Chaplain for re-rolls).

If I make a 10 man squad, I try to cap my points at around 400pts, because if I go higher I have to consider Terminators instead.

I go Sarge with PF/SS, two PF/SS, two Grav pistols/Power Axes and 3 Melta bombs with the rest plain. Oh, and Jump packs, of course. Why ignore their special rule by not taking jump packs.

But if I knew I was going to be combat squading, I go Sarge with PF/SS, two Grav Pistols/Power Axes with Melta bombs, and two plain guys in one 5 man group. The other is one with PF/SS, two Grav/Power Axes with Melta bombs, and 2 plain guys. So in that 10 man squad I drop a PF/SS for two extra Grav/PA and a extra melta bomb. Jump Packs for everyone.

I like the Storm Shields on the Power Fists because it means they might stay alive long enough to get their Init 1 swings off. I also put them to the front to soak any Overwatch with a 3++. I know the Fists have a shot against AV 14, so I put the Melta bombs on the guys that can't effect it normally. The Grav pistol/Power Axe guys get +1 attack for two CC weapons and are behind the fists with the normal guys covering the back and rear. In the first 10 man squad, one normal guy ends up with a melta bomb. Of course you can ditch the Grav Pistols if you want and just focus on beating stuff down. Personally, I don't find a Thunder Hammer to be worth the extra 5 points over a Fist just for Concussive. If I don't kill my target in the first turn of CC, I am probably (even with a SS) not going to survive the return attacks because I do not have multiple wounds or a high Toughness. I have a 33% chance to fail my save, so for every 3 attacks back I am probably going to die. Because of this, the idea is overwhelm them offensively and use your Pistol shots and Hammer of Wrath. But I feel spending points on pistols is optional.

I also think dual LC is a waste of points for 1 attack. I rather go with a Pistol/Power Weapon and get my extra attack that way. Yeah, the fig looks cool, but since they didn't add a special rule like give someone with two LCs Rend, all your doing is spending points on an extra attack. I would rather go Power Axe/Power Maul for the same points, still get an extra attack, and be a mini PF/LC guy. Obviously the cheap route is PW/Pistol... but if you are going to waste points on a Power Sword, then you might as well get a Lightning Claw. I just can not see a reason for a Power Sword right now as a legit option over a Lightning Claw, Axe or a Maul.

 Paradigm wrote:
I agree, leaving them bare with just JP is pretty nice in and of itself, getting an extra attack and better Ld over an AM squad for just a few points. The only problem there is that they then fill exactly the same roll, that of killing light infantry, which something equal points of AM could probably handle. Meltabombs can counter this, giving them a bit more versatility, but on the other hand, it also boosts the cost while only making them more specialised and dividing their roles.

Vanguard vets, in addition to light infantry, can take on other power-armored infantry and win, even all with just the basic chainswords. The extra attack lets them win comfortably in attrition against 1A power-armored guys, and also to have a decent chance of winning against the 3+ save guys who also have two weapons: Space Wolves, Blood Angels and some chaos armies.

Also, Vanguard vets are now elite (instead of fast like the last codex). So that allows slots for stormtalons.

They also change Heroic Intervention to something worse.

I must admit I'm not convinced by Storm Shields, especially up front, for the simple reason you're paying to make your armour save an invuln, but will still die to bolter/pulse/gauss shots at exactly the same rate. I'd take one or two max, as although they offer an increase in defence against AP1-3, they do nothing but exacerbate the problem of dying to weight of fire.

In terms of use, I think the best way to use them is to DS near a selection of targets and then run to spread out, before charging as many targets as possible the next turn. This means you only have to take one turn of fire (and through use of terrain you can limit the numbers of enemies shooting you) and will probably survive with enough strength to achieve the goal. This really works best with several threats in one area, forcing the enemy to split fire, so some AM, termies or more VV are essential, and you really need to build a good portion of your list around a 'threat overload' principle. This could also work well with a Drop Pod list, as the first wave can create a safe landing zone for the more valuable stuff.

 BlkTom wrote:
They also change Heroic Intervention to something worse.

I don't really think its worse, because it wasn't good before for the cost.

 Paradigm wrote:
I must admit I'm not convinced by Storm Shields, especially up front, for the simple reason you're paying to make your armour save an invuln, but will still die to bolter/pulse/gauss shots at exactly the same rate. I'd take one or two max, as although they offer an increase in defence against AP1-3, they do nothing but exacerbate the problem of dying to weight of fire.

In terms of use, I think the best way to use them is to DS near a selection of targets and then run to spread out, before charging as many targets as possible the next turn. This means you only have to take one turn of fire (and through use of terrain you can limit the numbers of enemies shooting you) and will probably survive with enough strength to achieve the goal. This really works best with several threats in one area, forcing the enemy to split fire, so some AM, termies or more VV are essential, and you really need to build a good portion of your list around a 'threat overload' principle. This could also work well with a Drop Pod list, as the first wave can create a safe landing zone for the more valuable stuff.

I thought you could charge after deep strike with vanguard vets?

That's the 5th edition rules for VV. But they paid SO dearly for that rule. They were 20+ point models with 10 point jump packs. It was insane. They are still available in the BA codex, and they are truly terrible.

They were so bad that they were one of the few units I mocked my opponent for bringing. They'd announce them and I would say something like, "Oh, I see you're wasting a lot of points on five guys in flimsy power armor. Thanks for making my job easier." They'd come down, lock up some unit that I really didn't care about (because I don't build lists that really care about any single unit) and then I'd kill them.

For what it's worth, I just finished cutting bits off of sprues and allocating them to marines to build.

Sarge has a LC/SS
One with a Axe/SS
One BP/CCW, plus a meltabomb
Two with basic BP/CCW

I also made a TH/LC jump captain while I was at it; I splashed a few normal assault marine parts into the vanguard to stretch for the extra marine. I'll probably end up magnetizing both arms and the jump packs on everyone. Just so many options to choose from. But that's my basic squad (for now) Purely theoretical at the moment.