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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/02 23:53:24
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Not at all. Treats as must mean is or the rules break spectacularly... Which transitively means you agree that ES still functions.
No it does not, unless you fail your FNP roll. If not, then you agree that FnP may not be used against the Hexrifle. FNP can create a saved wound, but the USR is not a save. (It even says this in the FNP rules). Therefore you can take a FNP against the Hexrifle (And Perils of the warp that ignores all saves just like the Hexrifle, Perils allowing FNP has been clarified on Page 5 of the Main rulebook FaQ).
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/02 23:53:43
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 00:16:13
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Sinewy Scourge
Crawfordsville Indiana
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It can not simultaneously be saved, and unsaved, be a save, and not a save. If treat as is a save, than it can not be used against a hexrifle. If it is not a save than ES works.
How can you say it is not a save because the rule says it is not, and than say it ignores other special rules that trigger on unsaved wounds because it is a save. All special rules that activate in a given situation are activated by said event. Remember multiple special rules may effect the same model, and stack. The end effect of a special rule that does not say it ignores other special rules can not change the effect of the previous special rule.
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All the worlds a joke and the people merely punchlines
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 00:27:09
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
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Correct. Thats why FNP states the wound is saved.
be a save.and not a save
The FNP rule is no save but creates saved wounds. Your point?
If treat as is a save, than it can not be used against a hexrifle. If it is not a save than ES works
FNP is no save and can be used against the hex rifle. This has absolutely no bearing on the question at hand.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/11/03 00:29:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 00:32:01
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Sinewy Scourge
Crawfordsville Indiana
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Mywik wrote:
FNP is no save and can be used against the hex rifle. This has absolutely no bearing on the question at hand.
It very much does. You have now stated twice that it is no save. As such, ES works.
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All the worlds a joke and the people merely punchlines
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 00:34:48
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Yes it can as that is the way the rules are written. It is not a save (Says so in the FNP rules) but it can create saved wounds just like Armor, Cover, or Invuln saves do...
If treat as is a save, than it can not be used against a hexrifle.
This is clearly not the case.
If it is not a save than ES works.
Only on a failed FNP roll can ES work because if you pass your FNP there is no Unsaved wound to proc effects off of. You do not know if you have an unsaved wound until FNP resolves.
How can you say it is not a save because the rule says it is not, and than say it ignores other special rules that trigger on unsaved wounds because it is a save.
I never said that. I said the rules tell us it is not a save. The rules also tell us that it can create a saved wound just like a save, but it is a special rule and not a save, because the rules say it is not a save. Also if it were a save we would not be able to use FNP ater a failed save because you can only ever take one save.
All special rules that activate in a given situation are activated by said event. Remember multiple special rules may effect the same model, and stack. The end effect of a special rule that does not say it ignores other special rules can not change the effect of the previous special rule.
Except FNP does ignore the effects of other special rules because it changes an unsaved wound into a saved wound. anything that triggers off of that unsaved wound can not be in effect after a successful FNP roll because FNP turns an unsaved wound into a saved wound, and you can not trigger effects off of a saved wound that require an Unsaved wound.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 00:35:43
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
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megatrons2nd wrote: Mywik wrote:
FNP is no save and can be used against the hex rifle. This has absolutely no bearing on the question at hand.
It very much does. You have now stated twice that it is no save. As such, ES works.
So, you think that the feel no pain rule is generally unable to create saved wounds because it states (itself) that its not a save?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/03 00:38:55
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 00:44:39
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
Armageddon, Pry System, Armageddon Sector, Armageddon Sub-sector, Segmentum Solar.
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Point about fnp v hex rifle, the wound is discounted either way you fall on counting the wound as saved or not in regards to the hex rifles rules.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 02:04:10
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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rigeld2 wrote:copper.talos wrote:He is using FNP like every other rule in the game, he applies its effects after the rule is activated and not before, as you propose.
And get FNP specifically (as in, in its rules) alters what happened before it's resolved.
It must or it would be literally useless.
No, it does not. The sentence indicates a present action to conceptualize an 'as if' scenario and consider it as the actuality for what had previously occurred. That is not time travel that is just considering a different scenario and acting in accord with it and only in regards to the wound itself, as Nem pointed out long ago. "treat it as having been saved" (emphasis mine) only permits you to treat the wound as having been saved and does not allow you to alter anything else. Unless you can show that FNP allows you to alter the status of anything but the wound you have no cause to do so.
Mywik wrote:copper.talos wrote:He has explained quite a few times and very accurately why FNP works after it has been activated and not before.
When you activate ES how are you treating the wound?
ES was already activated at the same time as FNP. It does not teat the wound in any way.
Mywik wrote:
Okay i also answer that question for you.
Part of suffering an unsaved wound is reducing the models wound count by 1 and if the model has no remaining wounds it being removed as a casualty.
Now my next question. If feel no pain is passed do you reduce the models wound count by 1?
This is a problem with FNP and has nothing to do with ES but for clarity- FNP and ES are both triggered by the unsaved wound. Once that occurs both are permitted to resolve their effects. That one of them removes the cause that originally triggered them does not matter at that point.... like I said. It's not a time loop.
Mywik wrote:
Okay i answer that question for you too.
If you pass feel no pain you dont reduce the models wound count by 1.
Now my next question. If part of suffering an unsaved wound is reducing the models wound count by 1 and you pass feel no pain and therefor dont reduce the models wound count by 1 did you suffer an unsaved wound?...
Necessarily you did or you would not have made an FNP roll.
Mywik wrote:...And now to nems post. Nems post assumes that reducing the models wound count by 1 isnt part of suffering an unsaved wound. This is the flaw in his argumentation.
That is a problem with FNP.
rigeld2 wrote: Nem wrote:Nem is a she, my avatars is me,
As for not reducing the wound,you don't because FNP addresses that 'treat (the wound) as having been saved'
FNP happens after a unsaved wound, before modifying the characteristics of 'Wounds'. Now, applying the effect of FNP, the next action is the modification. We check, and the wound is saved. Literal permission to do so in FNP 'Avoid being wounded' (spoke about that part on my post this morning). So you avoid the -w modification (not words 40k uses for that, but you understand my meaning)
We know special rules can interrupt the order, nothing suggests any can be played backwards
Sorry about the "he"s.
You are still, even using your interpretation, not discounting the wound or treating it as saved. The FNP rules require that you do both.
Why are you applying an unsaved wound effect to a model that has not suffered an unsaved wound?
It did suffer an unsaved wound. You can say it didn't and be correct because both are correct. ES however does not care about the part about the saved wound and only cares about the unsaved wound portion.
You suffer an unsaved wound.
FNP triggers and ES triggers.
Now you need denail of their effects for either not to resolve.
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-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 02:16:31
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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The Hive Mind
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In which case the model loses a wound and is removed. After all, it suffered an unsaved wound.
By applying ES you are not discounting the wound. Why are you choosing to break this rule?
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 02:20:45
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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nosferatu1001 wrote:Wrong; FNP is specifically not a save; it converts an unsaved wound to a saved one, and erases the unsaved part from ever existing.
Again: part of having an unsaved wound is reducing a models wounds by 1. Stating ES operates means the models wounds must have been reduced by 1.
(emphasis mine)
The underlined part is not true. Particularly the 'from ever existing' part. There is a time at which there is an unsaved wound. At any present point it does not matter that a future event may cause a current one to not have transpired. The unsaved wound happened, even if later it did not. Automatically Appended Next Post: rigeld2 wrote:In which case the model loses a wound and is removed. After all, it suffered an unsaved wound.
By applying ES you are not discounting the wound. Why are you choosing to break this rule?
It suffered an unsaved wound before you made the FNP roll, why didn't you remove it?
You seem to ball up the whole Allocate Unsaved Wounds and Remove Casualties section into one function. While that could be a valid interpretation of the mechanics they describe in that section (they do not specifically lay out an order of events) I would say it should be looked at differently as that makes FNP by itself dysfunctional. By necessity then it should be seen as a series of steps during which at some point FNP can be rolled before the final outcome of removing the model. This is also a valid interpretation IMO and does not force you into time travel which as far as I can tell does not exist in RAW.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/03 02:49:41
-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 02:49:53
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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The Hive Mind
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No, it can't have ever happened. Unless, of course, you're advocating that FNP does nothing. Automatically Appended Next Post: Abandon wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:In which case the model loses a wound and is removed. After all, it suffered an unsaved wound.
By applying ES you are not discounting the wound. Why are you choosing to break this rule?
It suffered an unsaved wound before you made the FNP roll, why didn't you remove it?
Because FNP says to discount the wound and that it has been saved. Actual rules ahoy!
You seem to ball up the whole Allocate Unsaved Wounds and Remove Casualties section into one function. While that could be a valid interpretation of the mechanics they describe in that section (they do not specifically lay out an order of events) I would say it should be looked at differently as that makes FNP by itself dysfunctional. By necessity then it should be seen as a series of steps during which at some point FNP can be rolled before the final outcome of removing the model. This is also a valid interpretation IMO and does not force you into time travel which as far as I can tell does not exist in RAW.
It only makes it dysfunctional if you ignore the rules FNP lays out.
And there's no time travel involved - FNP is tested before you know there's an unsaved wound.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/03 02:52:13
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 04:27:24
Subject: Re:FNP and Entropic Strike
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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rigeld2 wrote:No, it can't have ever happened. Unless, of course, you're advocating that FNP does nothing.
Why did you roll FNP? The rule says "When a model with this special rule suffers an unsaved Wound..."
rigeld2 wrote:
Abandon wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:In which case the model loses a wound and is removed. After all, it suffered an unsaved wound.
By applying ES you are not discounting the wound. Why are you choosing to break this rule?
The unsaved wound was counted before it was discounted. You claim it never was and yet in the very process you lay out there it is.. and unsaved wound... starts the whole thing. Stop pretending it did not ever exist. It did and then it didn't.
rigeld2 wrote:
It suffered an unsaved wound before you made the FNP roll, why didn't you remove it?
Because FNP says to discount the wound and that it has been saved. Actual rules ahoy!
...not until after the FNP roll is made. Until then it is indeed an unsaved wound. Actual rules. Huzzah!
rigeld2 wrote:
You seem to ball up the whole Allocate Unsaved Wounds and Remove Casualties section into one function. While that could be a valid interpretation of the mechanics they describe in that section (they do not specifically lay out an order of events) I would say it should be looked at differently as that makes FNP by itself dysfunctional. By necessity then it should be seen as a series of steps during which at some point FNP can be rolled before the final outcome of removing the model. This is also a valid interpretation IMO and does not force you into time travel which as far as I can tell does not exist in RAW.
It only makes it dysfunctional if you ignore the rules FNP lays out.
And there's no time travel involved - FNP is tested before you know there's an unsaved wound.
Except that FNP clearly is tested when there is an unsaved wound.
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-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 04:48:40
Subject: Re:FNP and Entropic Strike
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The Hive Mind
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Abandon wrote:rigeld2 wrote:No, it can't have ever happened. Unless, of course, you're advocating that FNP does nothing.
Why did you roll FNP? The rule says "When a model with this special rule suffers an unsaved Wound..."
And? FNP is irrelevant now - the wound is saved. I wonder if that's what the rules say or something...
Because FNP says to discount the wound and that it has been saved. Actual rules ahoy!
...not until after the FNP roll is made. Until then it is indeed an unsaved wound. Actual rules. Huzzah!
And what do the FNP rules tell you to do after the roll is passed?
Except that FNP clearly is tested when there is an unsaved wound.
Correct. And?
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 12:52:52
Subject: Re:FNP and Entropic Strike
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Sinewy Scourge
Crawfordsville Indiana
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rigeld2 wrote: Abandon wrote:rigeld2 wrote:No, it can't have ever happened. Unless, of course, you're advocating that FNP does nothing.
Why did you roll FNP? The rule says "When a model with this special rule suffers an unsaved Wound..."
And? FNP is irrelevant now - the wound is saved. I wonder if that's what the rules say or something...
Because FNP says to discount the wound and that it has been saved. Actual rules ahoy!
...not until after the FNP roll is made. Until then it is indeed an unsaved wound. Actual rules. Huzzah!
And what do the FNP rules tell you to do after the roll is passed?
Except that FNP clearly is tested when there is an unsaved wound.
Correct. And?
No, FnP allows you to keep your model on the table.
FnP treats the wound as saved, but it does not give you permission to go back in time and ignore any other special rule.
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All the worlds a joke and the people merely punchlines
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 14:08:15
Subject: Re:FNP and Entropic Strike
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
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megatrons2nd wrote:
No, FnP allows you to keep your model on the table.
FnP treats the wound as saved, but it does not give you permission to go back in time and ignore any other special rule.
EIther FNP is generally disfunctional or it has permission to go back in time. Your choice, i go with the option that lets fnp stay functional since ... well the rule is there for a reason. ES stays functional either way so its the option that also causes less rule problems overall.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/03 14:09:11
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 14:41:39
Subject: Re:FNP and Entropic Strike
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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Going back in time causes it to be dysfunctional by negating its own activation requirement, unless of course going back in time and retroactively discounting the unsaved wound wouldn't negate already resolved special rules that require an unsaved wound to activate, like Feel No Pain and Entropic Strike.
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 14:44:54
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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There is no such dillema. FNP is applied just before you remove a wound from a model and everything functions properly. The model doesn't take a wound and everything else that got activated by an unsaved wound still work. No rules broken, or dysfunctional or unnecessarily cancelled.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 14:57:57
Subject: Re:FNP and Entropic Strike
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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The problem many of us are having with no ES version is that by your reading it's lowering the wounds characteristic by one that you are tying "suffer an unsaved wound" to. By this I mean if you were to look at a step by step list of actions you have the trigger of suffering an unsaved wound causing three things, ES, FNP, and lowering the models wound characteristic. By your reading either it changes the past, which would in fact cause it's own paradox by negating both FNP and ES as the trigger is not there so therefor you cannot apply either affect, or you have FNP simply stop the lowering of the wounds characteristic by one. If you argue that the effects of ES cannot apply because the trigger is gone how do you argue you can apply the affects of FNP if the trigger is gone? You can stop the lowering of the characteristic without stopping other things that have been triggered.
I go back to a simpler example, if I give you $5, this causes two things to happen I have less money and you have more. If someone agrees with your need and gives you the money from a fund and leaves my $5 in my account it does not change the fact that you have $5 more even though I do not have less money.
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ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
Specific Vs General |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 15:06:09
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
Armageddon, Pry System, Armageddon Sector, Armageddon Sub-sector, Segmentum Solar.
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Except by treating the wound as saved there is no need for the trigger for fnp so the game goes happily along as if you saved the wound rather than failed your save.
That and lemates would get his bonuses and be at full wounds by the oppositions interpretation, all conditions are met as there "was" an unsaved wound and he wasn't slain.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 15:12:05
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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Is there a FAQ about Lemarte's rule and FNP? No. You can't use it as an argument then.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 15:16:31
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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Just a quick one.
If i have a DE archon with a 2++ (until he fails his save)
How does that work when he has FNP?
I have always assumed that if you fail that but then pass your FNP, it carries on working.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 15:18:26
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Kelne
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Jackal wrote:Just a quick one.
If i have a DE archon with a 2++ (until he fails his save)
How does that work when he has FNP?
I have always assumed that if you fail that but then pass your FNP, it carries on working.
Doesn't it stop working upon failing the invulnerable save, rather than upon taking a wound?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 15:27:05
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
Armageddon, Pry System, Armageddon Sector, Armageddon Sub-sector, Segmentum Solar.
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copper.talos wrote:Is there a FAQ about Lemarte's rule and FNP? No. You can't use it as an argument then.
what? The triggers for lemates' ability are; take an unsaved wound and still be alive. According to the proES side this ability should take effect even if lemates makes his fnp roll. It's a perfectly valid counter point.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 15:30:52
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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And I am sure there a BA players that play Lemartes as such. Is there a faq that says it is wrong?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 15:31:04
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
Armageddon, Pry System, Armageddon Sector, Armageddon Sub-sector, Segmentum Solar.
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Correct Bob, but if fnp does treat the wound as saved for all intents and purposes including removing triggers then the inv would remain intact. The proES side takes the opposing standpoint that the wound is saved but the triggers have already activated other effects so they cannot be undone.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 15:34:14
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Kelne
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Bausk wrote:Correct Bob, but if fnp does treat the wound as saved for all intents and purposes including removing triggers then the inv would remain intact. The proES side takes the opposing standpoint that the wound is saved but the triggers have already activated other effects so they cannot be undone.
There's a difference though. One rule works from an unsaved wound, the other from having failed a save ( IIRC). FNP counts the wound as saved, but the invuln still failed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 15:36:16
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
Armageddon, Pry System, Armageddon Sector, Armageddon Sub-sector, Segmentum Solar.
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copper.talos wrote:And I am sure there a BA players that play Lemartes as such. Is there a faq that says it is wrong?
It's generally accepted to be the wrong way to apply lemates' ability... Even by most BA players standards and even a portion of the proES side. Automatically Appended Next Post: The point is Bob if it counts as saved then the actual fail of the save is gone too. Different trigger yes, but aso the same argument.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/03 15:39:07
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 15:57:05
Subject: Re:FNP and Entropic Strike
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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The difference between Lemartes' Fury Unbound and Entropic Strike is that Fury Unbound can't activate until wound removal, by which point a passed Feel No Pain roll has already made it so that the wound counts as saved, therefore there wasn't an unsaved wound as far as Fury Unbound is concerned.
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 16:20:59
Subject: Re:FNP and Entropic Strike
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
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PrinceRaven wrote:The difference between Lemartes' Fury Unbound and Entropic Strike is that Fury Unbound can't activate until wound removal, by which point a passed Feel No Pain roll has already made it so that the wound counts as saved, therefore there wasn't an unsaved wound as far as Fury Unbound is concerned.
There is NO wording of wound removal ....
Fury Unbound: If Lemartes suffers an unsaved wound, but is not slain, his Strength and Attacks both immediately increase to 5.
That is the rule as written in the codex on pg. 43. It does not say that he must only have one wound remaining, only that he must not be slain, and that he suffer an unsaved wound.
As a BA player I would never say that it activates after failing a wound and passing FNP, just like I would not let him lose his armour after failing a wound and making his FNP, because you "TREAT THE WOUND AS SAVED" is how FNP is worded.
It is worded the same way as ES. If you are wanting one to go off then you MUST advocate for the other to go off.
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Now, we like big books. (And we cannot lie. You other readers can’t deny, a book flops open with an itty-bitty font, and a map that’s in your face, you get—sorry! Sorry!) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 16:25:34
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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I disagree. If Fury Unbound said immediately, then, you would be correct. Since it doesn't, you have two rules going off at the same time, and (using the old Eldar codex faq as precedent) the current player would choose the order.
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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