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i have a game against DE coming up soon. I've never played DE, although I understand that they are FAST, have good anti-tank, and use a lot of 4+ poison weapons.

Here is what I have in my toolbox for list-building:

HQ:
Chaos Lord with power (or force) sword and plasma pistol
Chaos sorcerer in terminator armor with power (or force) staff
Dark Apostle with power maul

Troops:
roughly 25 CSM, mostly vanilla, but heavy bolter and magnetized pistol and bolter/plasma/melta/flamer weapon combinations available
2x Aspiring champions, one with power axe, one with power fist
(20) DV cultists (9 with autopistols, 1 shotgun, 1 flamer, one close combat only, 1 heavy stubber, 8 autoguns)

Transports:
(2) Rhinos. Magnetized for additional combi-bolter or havoc missles

Elites:
(5) terminators, built more or less per the box. Reaper autocannon and heavy flamer are magnetized/swappable
(7) plague marines, one with plasma gun
(1) DV helbrute with powerfist and multi-melta

Fast Attack
(5) raptors. one meltagun, champion with plasma pistol and lightening claw, one magnetized for plasma/melta options. two are vanilla
(1) heldrake

Heavy Support
(3) Obliterators
(1) Predator with TL lascannon. Lascannon side sponsons are magnetized. I do not have the HB side sponsons, thought (it was used)

I have been running mostly Mark of Nurgle to make the plague marines troops.

I'm thinking along these lines:

HQ:

Lord and Sorcerer.
MoN on lord to make plague marines scoring. lord will probably join PM squad, not really sure. warlord.
Sorcerer with terminator armor. ML2 and MoT. MoT has some goodies in psychic power, and MoT gives him 4+ invuln on top of 2+ armor

Troops:
10 person CSM squad with power axe champion. +1 plasma pistol, +1 plasma gun backfield objective grabbers
7 person plague marines

transport: 1 rhino with extra combi-bolter. Plague marines into rhino to try and get to midfield objectives and hold it, moving flat-out in turn 1.

Elite:
3 termies to escort sorcerer. this is a wandering back-up/strike team, starting in backfield with obliterators. Probably 1x combi-flamer and 2x power fists.

Fast Attack:
5 raptors with 2x melta for deep strike, try to get behind a vehicle and pop it
heldrake with hades autocannon to try and counter his air unit (I'm pretty certain he will bring at least 1 flyer) and pop armor.
(since DE will be unlikely to bring large quantities of troops, the autocannon seems to make more sense than the baleflamer to me)

Heavy Support:
2x obliterators with MoN to avoid instant death They remain in backfield as separate units, sniping with lascannon and plasma cannon/guns

I know I can't move nearly as fast as he can, so I want to "fort up" using cover near objectives and try to focus firepower with relatively large blobs.
The rhino hopefully will live long enough to get the PMs + lord near an objective, and may provide some mobile cover or even wrecked LoS cover.

I only have 2 scoring units, although depending on mission the maybe the raptors or oblits are also scoring.

I usually run my CSMs with close-combat weapons, but since I don't expect the DE to want to get into cc, maybe I can drop these points and spend elsewhere?

Advice?

Oh, and if you are my opponent, then you need to stop reading this...

Thanks,
-Aeglos

aeglos wrote:
i have a game against DE coming up soon. I've never played DE, although I understand that they are FAST, have good anti-tank, and use a lot of 4+ poison weapons.

Here is what I have in my toolbox for list-building:

HQ:
Chaos Lord with power (or force) sword and plasma pistol
Chaos sorcerer in terminator armor with power (or force) staff
Dark Apostle with power maul

Troops:
roughly 25 CSM, mostly vanilla, but heavy bolter and magnetized pistol and bolter/plasma/melta/flamer weapon combinations available
2x Aspiring champions, one with power axe, one with power fist
(20) DV cultists (9 with autopistols, 1 shotgun, 1 flamer, one close combat only, 1 heavy stubber, 8 autoguns)

Transports:
(2) Rhinos. Magnetized for additional combi-bolter or havoc missles

Elites:
(5) terminators, built more or less per the box. Reaper autocannon and heavy flamer are magnetized/swappable
(7) plague marines, one with plasma gun
(1) DV helbrute with powerfist and multi-melta

Fast Attack
(5) raptors. one meltagun, champion with plasma pistol and lightening claw, one magnetized for plasma/melta options. two are vanilla
(1) heldrake

Heavy Support
(3) Obliterators
(1) Predator with TL lascannon. Lascannon side sponsons are magnetized. I do not have the HB side sponsons, thought (it was used)

I have been running mostly Mark of Nurgle to make the plague marines troops.

I'm thinking along these lines:

HQ:

Lord and Sorcerer.
MoN on lord to make plague marines scoring. lord will probably join PM squad, not really sure. warlord.
Sorcerer with terminator armor. ML2 and MoT. MoT has some goodies in psychic power, and MoT gives him 4+ invuln on top of 2+ armor

Troops:
10 person CSM squad with power axe champion. +1 plasma pistol, +1 plasma gun backfield objective grabbers
7 person plague marines

transport: 1 rhino with extra combi-bolter. Plague marines into rhino to try and get to midfield objectives and hold it, moving flat-out in turn 1.

Elite:
3 termies to escort sorcerer. this is a wandering back-up/strike team, starting in backfield with obliterators. Probably 1x combi-flamer and 2x power fists.

Fast Attack:
5 raptors with 2x melta for deep strike, try to get behind a vehicle and pop it
heldrake with hades autocannon to try and counter his air unit (I'm pretty certain he will bring at least 1 flyer) and pop armor.
(since DE will be unlikely to bring large quantities of troops, the autocannon seems to make more sense than the baleflamer to me)

Heavy Support:
2x obliterators with MoN to avoid instant death They remain in backfield as separate units, sniping with lascannon and plasma cannon/guns

I know I can't move nearly as fast as he can, so I want to "fort up" using cover near objectives and try to focus firepower with relatively large blobs.
The rhino hopefully will live long enough to get the PMs + lord near an objective, and may provide some mobile cover or even wrecked LoS cover.

I only have 2 scoring units, although depending on mission the maybe the raptors or oblits are also scoring.

I usually run my CSMs with close-combat weapons, but since I don't expect the DE to want to get into cc, maybe I can drop these points and spend elsewhere?

Advice?

Oh, and if you are my opponent, then you need to stop reading this...

Thanks,
-Aeglos

If you want to list tailor against DE, drop MoN from everything, as DE care not for toughness. (MoN can be ok on oblits, as DE can spam str8)
Leave the plague marines at home or just call them regular CSM
Take a sorcerer HQ or a cheap cheap chaos lord.

Take the flamer on the drake. If DE arent bringing troops I dont know what they will bring as half their codex is bonked and the other half(FA slot) relies on leet cover saves to survive. You will enjoy flaming beastpacks and reavers more than an additional 2 autocannons.

Do you have raptors with flamers? Melta isnt super useful against DE. No need to get behind AV10 all around but remember that with nightshields meltaguns only have a 6" range. DSing that close is risky to say the least.

Terminators arent super good against DE either. They can spam ap2, torrent them down with wounds, or simple run away from them. Having a mobile reaper autocannon can be nice.

What you want is troops. Masses marines and tons of autocannons.

Cultists can be arlight to force the DE player out of certain areas.

If you want to take the Helbrute, take the rhinos too to prevent one thing getting focused. Leave the predator out if you dont have autocannon/heavybolter.



Drop the upgrades. plasma pistols, Lightning claws, meltabombs, and power fists. keep things cheap so you can have more stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So basically I would run with what you have:
Lvl3 sorcerer running telepethy. TDA to make him live longer, force staff Unmarked

3 terminators with power mauls and a reaper autocannon. unmarked

1 unit of 20 cultists with minimal equipment. Unmarked

3 units of 10 CSM. Each with a flamer and an autocannon. If you cannot get autocannons use heavy bolters. If you cannot get heavy bolters use lascannons. If you cannot get flamers, leave them unarmed. Unmarked

3 units of 1 MoN Oblitorator. 3 units is much better than 1 big unit in this case

Heldrake with flamer

5 raptors with 2 flamers. Unmarked

If points are still a problem, add the helbrute, try to convert the MM into a twinlinked autocannon.
along with the helbrute add in the rhinos to use as mobile cover.

 Exergy wrote:


If you want to list tailor against DE, drop MoN from everything, as DE care not for toughness. (MoN can be ok on oblits, as DE can spam str8)
Leave the plague marines at home or just call them regular CSM
Take a sorcerer HQ or a cheap cheap chaos lord.

Take the flamer on the drake. If DE arent bringing troops I dont know what they will bring as half their codex is bonked and the other half(FA slot) relies on leet cover saves to survive. You will enjoy flaming beastpacks and reavers more than an additional 2 autocannons.

Do you have raptors with flamers? Melta isnt super useful against DE. No need to get behind AV10 all around but remember that with nightshields meltaguns only have a 6" range. DSing that close is risky to say the least.

Terminators arent super good against DE either. They can spam ap2, torrent them down with wounds, or simple run away from them. Having a mobile reaper autocannon can be nice.

What you want is troops. Masses marines and tons of autocannons.

Cultists can be arlight to force the DE player out of certain areas.

If you want to take the Helbrute, take the rhinos too to prevent one thing getting focused. Leave the predator out if you dont have autocannon/heavybolter.



Drop the upgrades. plasma pistols, Lightning claws, meltabombs, and power fists. keep things cheap so you can have more stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So basically I would run with what you have:
Lvl3 sorcerer running telepethy. TDA to make him live longer, force staff Unmarked

3 terminators with power mauls and a reaper autocannon. unmarked

1 unit of 20 cultists with minimal equipment. Unmarked

3 units of 10 CSM. Each with a flamer and an autocannon. If you cannot get autocannons use heavy bolters. If you cannot get heavy bolters use lascannons. If you cannot get flamers, leave them unarmed. Unmarked

3 units of 1 MoN Oblitorator. 3 units is much better than 1 big unit in this case

Heldrake with flamer

5 raptors with 2 flamers. Unmarked

If points are still a problem, add the helbrute, try to convert the MM into a twinlinked autocannon.
along with the helbrute add in the rhinos to use as mobile cover.

So basically 1HQ and lots of bodies then? OK, I can run as cheap as possible. I can probably get 1 flamer into my raptor squad since one of the models is magnetized. The other specialist is glued melta, though.

What do I do about his 1-2 flyers? I know they bring a lot of dakka to the board. I don't have anything with skyfire, unless I get lucky with a skyfire nexus objective. With his speed, I was thinking the autocannon range on the drake would be needed to hit his flyers.

I think I can pull off most of the rest of this, not sure if I can scratch up 30 CSM bodies, but I can get close, with at least 2 flamers and one heavy bolter. I don't have any autocannons on my marines.
We're asked to use WYSIWYG, so I don't feel good about putting my green plague marines next to my red-and-copper CSM and calling them regular marines.

Thanks for your inputs,
-Aeglos

aeglos wrote:



So basically 1HQ and lots of bodies then? OK, I can run as cheap as possible. I can probably get 1 flamer into my raptor squad since one of the models is magnetized. The other specialist is glued melta, though.

What do I do about his 1-2 flyers? I know they bring a lot of dakka to the board. I don't have anything with skyfire, unless I get lucky with a skyfire nexus objective. With his speed, I was thinking the autocannon range on the drake would be needed to hit his flyers.

I think I can pull off most of the rest of this, not sure if I can scratch up 30 CSM bodies, but I can get close, with at least 2 flamers and one heavy bolter. I don't have any autocannons on my marines.
We're asked to use WYSIWYG, so I don't feel good about putting my green plague marines next to my red-and-copper CSM and calling them regular marines.

Thanks for your inputs,
-Aeglos

Yes, you want minimal HQs. Either you arent going to get into close combat, are going to get into close combat with really squishy guys you will beat anyway, or are going to get into combat with a really nasty, really fast guy who will kill your HQ in seconds. So spending points on an HQ isn't a good idea, as none of those results is worth your investment in points.

1-2 flyers. DE flyers are weak and have either AV10(anti infantry) or AV11(anti tank) You are going to be running a lot of infantry, so spread out and use twinlinked bolters and reaper autocannons to glance them to death. Twinlinked hits 30% of the time. Otherwise hug cover and wait for the flyer to run out of missiles(they have 4, and can fire max 2 a turn)

As a DE player I agree with Exergy. I also hate baleflamer Heldrakes.

You could want to deep strike the obliterators depending on your play style. DE players will usually use speed to advantage. They will move out on to the field to strike whatever they can since they are so fragile. This will often leave flanks and the rear empty, lining you up for some nice shots from unexpected positions.

I believe you can vector strike fliers as well, so you do have an option against fliers. Razorwing is the cheaper option (AV10, ani-infantry) so you'll be fine glancing them to death.

Oh and expect your rhinos to blow up on turn one. So do try to hide them.

It was a close-fought battle and the forces of Chaos emerged victorious!

MVP units:

Heldrake, which killed most of his jet bikes and glanced several vehicles along the way. Drew a lot of fire as well.
Plague marines as scoring units took control of a mid-board objective with their final consolidation, winning the game.

Honorable mentions:

Raptors did a lot of damage, including taking out 4 hover boards with a single flamed template
Rhinos, which survived a surprisingly long time and provided tank shock, ram, and distraction/mobile cover while they did.

Thanks for all advice.

-Aeglos