Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What would it take for any space marines chapter to come to the conclusion humans and how their social structure might be the cause for the growing strength of chaos? Not sure I can explain this correct but in the scenario it would be the realization that humans themselves are feeding chaos threw their actions and methods, what would happen? Which chapter would be most likely to even entertain such an idea. If one of the chapters or most of the chapters shared this opinion what do you see happening?

That chapter would start to show deviance and be purged by the Adepta Sororitas or the Inquisition, depending on who found out first.

They either turn to chaos or start becoming like the marines malevolent.

Yes, they would immediately fall to chaos, but the question is what would cause them to realize the truth in the first place?

Well, they could just be told. Tzeentch could reveal the truth to them, for example, while the inquisition does work with certain space marine chapters, and those chapters are going to be much more likely to know what's going on.

That said, I don't know how well-guarded of a secret it is. All psykers that have been filtered through the imperium know that their power comes from the warp, and are going to understand how the warp works intuitively. Given that there are already psykers in space marine armies, that means at least a few of every chapter are going to know what's going on.

Insta-Corruption I guess.

Or complete Civil War amongst the IOM. Imagine if the IG realized this!

But I think that in the end, lets say Chaos DO triumph over the IOM, they will just wither up and die. If there is no killing, there is no Chaos. Honestly, I can not see any of these races survive if they end up to be the last survivors : CSM + Daemons, Orks, Tyranids, Dark Eldar?

Dark Eldar would survive as the last once standing just fine, they'd just use cloned dark eldar as slaves instead of humans.

Or, hell, maybe even cloned humans.

Is this not pretty close to the Alpha Legion?

It's happened before ( soul drinkers ) and will happen again.

At some point I imagine every marine chapter master would have to conclude that the IoM is completely fethed up. The question is simply what they decide to do about it, if anything.

Most would realize that any sort of rebellion is doomed to failure and ignore the wider problems while taking care of their own. Others might conclude that "change from within" is the best path and try to get the ear of a high lord... Hoping the inquisition or Ecclesiarchy doesn't brand them heretics or worse. Still others would go rogue and possibly cut out their own little empires - which generally works for at least a few hundred years before they are crushed and/or driven into the eye.

In the end it's not going to matter. Man is doomed and the scraps left over will be eaten by nids and crushed under the soulless boots of the necron. While the Eldar pass away and Dark Eldar hide in the webway.

grim dark /= morbid failing of all sentient (half decent) life clively... >.> there is still some hope for the eldar and men! if. ever so small a glimmer XD very...very small....

clively wrote:
At some point I imagine every marine chapter master would have to conclude that the IoM is completely fethed up.

No. Space marines are brainwashed religious zealots. They exist for the sole purpose of slaughtering the designated enemies of the Imperium, all that matters is loyalty to the chain of command. Expecting a space marine see and care about the Imperium's problems is like expecting a gun to become sentient and refuse to murder an innocent victim.

 DeathRex wrote:
What would it take for any space marines chapter to come to the conclusion humans and how their social structure might be the cause for the growing strength of chaos? Not sure I can explain this correct but in the scenario it would be the realization that humans themselves are feeding chaos threw their actions and methods, what would happen? Which chapter would be most likely to even entertain such an idea. If one of the chapters or most of the chapters shared this opinion what do you see happening?

well that sound like the soul drinkers ideas they hate the imperiums government due to the fact it is them who keep the people under foot and make them mindless sheep and draws them to the free flow of chaos read the phalanx novel it explained it very well i havent got any of the other novels yet tho

 Mike101 wrote:

 DeathRex wrote:
What would it take for any space marines chapter to come to the conclusion humans and how their social structure might be the cause for the growing strength of chaos? Not sure I can explain this correct but in the scenario it would be the realization that humans themselves are feeding chaos threw their actions and methods, what would happen? Which chapter would be most likely to even entertain such an idea. If one of the chapters or most of the chapters shared this opinion what do you see happening?

well that sound like the soul drinkers ideas they hate the imperiums government due to the fact it is them who keep the people under foot and make them mindless sheep and draws them to the free flow of chaos read the phalanx novel it explained it very well i havent got any of the other novels yet tho

Thanks for that bit of info, I'll give it a look next chance I get.

You know I've often asked myself , if the story line was ever advanced would there be an inevitable 2nd civil war. Not necessarily chapters going to chaos but more like several breaking off from a flawed leadership structure that they feel has lost the way of what the emperor intended for humanity.