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So yeah, I want to print my AS codex. Questions: (I'm pretty tech ignorant, so I apologize if these things seem obvious to some of you)

1) I have the Ipad version. Can I print this version?

2) Anyone know if kinkos or a place like that can print it off for me?

Thanks.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Never mind. Looks like GW revoked the right to print a copy. Oh well.

 Cortez667 wrote:
So yeah, I want to print my AS codex. Questions: (I'm pretty tech ignorant, so I apologize if these things seem obvious to some of you)

1) I have the Ipad version. Can I print this version?

2) Anyone know if kinkos or a place like that can print it off for me?

Thanks.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Never mind. Looks like GW revoked the right to print a copy. Oh well.

At the risk of being a complete rebel, lawbreaker, and dick, I'm going to say something mind blowing here...

print it anyway

You bought the thing, I think you've earned the right to look at it without the iPad on. Besides, I thought this sort of thing was covered under personal use, just like how I scan a book so I can read it in PDF form or burn a CD on my computer so I can listen to it on my phone.

No idea how you would go about doing that mind you, but I'm sure there must be a way to save it in PDF or text only format so you can print it.

DISCLAIMER: I am not even remotely qualified to be a lawyer. Taking my word as law is a very silly thing to do.

The only way you're going to be able to do it with the ipad version is to take screenshots of every single page, plus extra for all the pop out rules, and then print those screenshots out. In the end, you're going to end up with a mass of screenshots, and a huge amount of duplicated information, to print out. The result is going to be poorly organised and a pain to use, unless you invest a huge amount of time in then trimming out all the duplication and rearranging things. In the end, after all the money you spend printing, and all the time you spend making it usable you're probably better off just buying the print codex.

Errrr they didn't make a print copy of it. The Adepta Sororitus Dex is digital only.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:
Errrr they didn't make a print copy of it. The Adepta Sororitus Dex is digital only.

Errr maybe actually read the OP?

 -Loki- wrote:

Boss GreenNutz wrote:
Errrr they didn't make a print copy of it. The Adepta Sororitus Dex is digital only.

Errr maybe actually read the OP?

He's responding to me, and he actually has a point. There isn't a print version of the Adepta Soroitus codex, I didn't see the sneaky "AS" in there and was responding in the general sense. But I stand by my statement that buying the print codex is going to be less of a pain than trying to assemble a usable printed version of an ipad book, even if you have to wait for them to actually print it.

All the ipad codices can be installed just fine on a home computer, where they can be opened as a pdf. You can take a copy of that pdf down to Kinkos and they will print it out for you, sort it, and collect it into a 3-ring binder for your perusing pleasure. Probably cost around ten bucks to get it done.

*edit* Though assuming this is going to be used primarily for gaming, I'd say leave out all the fluff pages and just print out the rules sections.

 Cortez667 wrote:
So yeah, I want to print my AS codex. Questions: (I'm pretty tech ignorant, so I apologize if these things seem obvious to some of you)

1) I have the Ipad version. Can I print this version?

2) Anyone know if kinkos or a place like that can print it off for me?

Thanks.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Never mind. Looks like GW revoked the right to print a copy. Oh well.

The eBook version is the one that allows you to print a copy, it's in the terms and conditions for the purchase as item 3.

I wish we had similar services in the UK - I did a Google search for online printing and binding UK and clicked the first result, uploaded a PDF to see how much it would be and was quoted the low, low price of £54!

I would just as soon bind it and ship it to you, sorry to hear that bud. It would be like 10-15$ for me to get it done here.

 Badablack wrote:
All the ipad codices can be installed just fine on a home computer, where they can be opened as a pdf.

How? I've not been able to do it.

 Badablack wrote:
All the ipad codices can be installed just fine on a home computer, where they can be opened as a pdf.

You can't.

Ibooks is a proprietary system, you can't even open them on a mac at present , let alone a PC, and they certainly won't open with a pdf reader.

Are there that many people that want to sit at their computer and read a book?

 cincydooley wrote:
Are there that many people that want to sit at their computer and read a book?

I was thinking most people don't have iPads, iPods, iPhones, etc... and would like a decent way to perhaps throw the book on their laptop and take it with them. I did that with my netbook before I got my Kindle Fire.

There's always a way. Nerds, like nature, find a way.

It might not, strictly speaking, be "legal," it might not be "easy," it might not be "simple," but there is always a way.

I do not, however, know the way. I suggest poking around on the internets. Do some Googling, check some tech forums.

This is one reason that I absolutely do not like these kinds of BS digital products. You pay basically the same price a lot of the time, but aren't actually buying a COPY of the material, you are buying (limited) ACCESS to the material that is subject to a laundry list of stupid and over-restrictive terms and conditions that are designed to force you to stay within an established ecosystem.

No, Thank you. I don't really get why GW would want to do this to its customers. They don't release the material in anything other than a digital version that only works on an Apple product, you arent "technically" allowed to print the thing, retailers don't get in on the action, but are nevertheless expected to maintain stock of crappy products that no one buys.

This is clownshoes. GW is headed into a downward spiral. GW cannot survive without distributors and indy retailers, period. And yet GW takes these folks for granted. One day GW will push the market too far and the fortress will come crumbling down unless Hasbro buys it in the meantime.

 filbert wrote:
I wish we had similar services in the UK - I did a Google search for online printing and binding UK and clicked the first result, uploaded a PDF to see how much it would be and was quoted the low, low price of £54!

Take it off color and put black and white. The price will drop significantly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

weeble1000 wrote:
GW is headed into a downward spiral.

I love the internet.

From 1998:
"Once the market slackens, they'll back off of the prices a bit...or
begin a burning downward spiral into oblivion. "

People have been predicting the demise of GW since it started. I'm fairly certain we'll be here in another 5 years predicting the same damn thing.

 pretre wrote:

weeble1000 wrote:
GW is headed into a downward spiral.

I love the internet.

From 1998:
"Once the market slackens, they'll back off of the prices a bit...or
begin a burning downward spiral into oblivion. "

People have been predicting the demise of GW since it started. I'm fairly certain we'll be here in another 5 years predicting the same damn thing.

Except that I am looking at stagnating revenue over the past 5 years in a market that is clearly expanding comparatively rapidly. You don't have to be an economics professor to know that GW's market share is diminishing. As GW has become increasingly strained in the past few years, the company has been experimenting with different ways to maintain stagnant year over year revenue. We have all seen it. I'm not just talking about price hikes. I'm talking about GW breaking out of very long-established patterns of behavior. If you look at what these changes in behavior have in common, what you see is that they are designed to rake in a larger profit on fewer sales.

That may be a practical business move, but GW has at the same time been ripping its goodwill to shreds. It is just about monthly nowadays that we see a new piece of negative news about GW, and this has been going on for the better part of a year. That wasn't happening in 1998. There's plenty of data around. Is it more reasonable to compare hyperbolic statements from today with those from 1998 than it is to look at the data that is available today and draw reasonable inferences from that?

Why, for example, release a digital only version of the Sororitas codex? You can see in this thread alone, new though it may be, that plenty of customers, and it seems like a majority even, would prefer a print version of the product. So the digital only version clearly alienates a portion of the customer base. What makes that alienation, that loss of valuable goodwill, worthwhile?

weeble1000 wrote:
You don't have to be an economics professor to know that GW's market share is diminishing.

1997
"What this doesn't show is the general decline in popularity of GW over the last few years...The products still move, but not nearly as
quickly or in as much volume as they used to."

As GW has become increasingly strained in the past few years, the company has been experimenting with different ways to maintain stagnant year over year revenue. We have all seen it. I'm not just talking about price hikes. I'm talking about GW breaking out of very long-established patterns of behavior. If you look at what these changes in behavior have in common, what you see is that they are designed to rake in a larger profit on fewer sales.

2006
"The spiral of increasing prices to keep profits up is a slippery slope, and sure, it works for a while. In the end, you wind up with financials that look like the ones they have now."
"]2004
"Comparison of this financial year to the last finacial year of GW Revenue (in terms of millions of pounds). The percent in the %
increase/decrease relative to the previous year. In business the growth is what is important. Stagnant growth is a very bad thing."

That may be a practical business move, but GW has at the same time been ripping its goodwill to shreds. It is just about monthly nowadays that we see a new piece of negative news about GW, and this has been going on for the better part of a year. That wasn't happening in 1998.

1994
"Yes, I've grumbled about the relentless commercial machine that has produced the "Warhammer" universe (and its attendant universe of figures), the self-indulgent "wackiness," the monopoly even. I've seen the debacle of "Games Day."" That thread is gold, btw.

There's plenty of data around. Is it more reasonable to compare hyperbolic statements from today with those from 1998 than it is to look at the data that is available today and draw reasonable inferences from that?

I'm not saying that it isn't possible that they are going to go down the drain. I am saying that people have been saying the same thing for 15 years and I just don't buy it. Sure, it is possible. Likely? Not really.

What makes that alienation, that loss of valuable goodwill, worthwhile?

GW makes two products: Miniatures and Alienation. One could argue that they make the finest Alienation in the world.

 pretre wrote:

weeble1000 wrote:
GW is headed into a downward spiral.

I love the internet.

From 1998:
"Once the market slackens, they'll back off of the prices a bit...or
begin a burning downward spiral into oblivion. "

People have been predicting the demise of GW since it started. I'm fairly certain we'll be here in another 5 years predicting the same damn thing.

I don't know, man.
I'm with Weeble here. I mean, it seems to me that we might be in the beginning phases of that downward spiral. It's a shame, too. GW is finally doing SO MANY things right, it's a shame that the things they're doing (IMO) wrong are dragging them down so far.


Eric

 MagickalMemories wrote:
I don't know, man.
I'm with Weeble here. I mean, it seems to me that we might be in the beginning phases of that downward spiral. It's a shame, too. GW is finally doing SO MANY things right, it's a shame that the things they're doing (IMO) wrong are dragging them down so far.

It's possible that you're right. But I'm just saying that people have been saying exactly the same thing for 15 years. That this decision by GW is the one that is bringing them down. And you know what? They've only gotten bigger. Sure, if we say it enough times, eventually someone will be right but I'm thinking it isn't this time either.

 pretre wrote:

 filbert wrote:
I wish we had similar services in the UK - I did a Google search for online printing and binding UK and clicked the first result, uploaded a PDF to see how much it would be and was quoted the low, low price of £54!

Take it off color and put black and white. The price will drop significantly.

Take a pen and copy it by hand and the price will drop even more.
But maybe some people expect a bit more for 32€.

 pretre wrote:

weeble1000 wrote:
GW is headed into a downward spiral.

I love the internet.
(...)
People have been predicting the demise of GW since it started. I'm fairly certain we'll be here in another 5 years predicting the same damn thing.

People follow the official numbers for quite some time and see that despite crazy price hikes, revenue is flat for 7 years (inflation adjusted). Even the doubling of prices lately (e.g. Hobbit, Codices, many standards and elites) didn't help:

The market is expanding but lets not forget that GW had a massive hold on the market to begin with. Most of the market expansion is old guard GW gamers shifting into new games because of various reasons. That combined with a shift to online ordering and a general expansion in the hobby market (recession) means that other companies have been able to get their head up a little more.

GW might not be expanding because its likely already reached quite a large market hold in many markets and its harder for them to actually expand further because they've already hit most of the market itself - meanwhile other companies are filling in the gaps - most of the competition is currently small scale skirmish or focuses on the competitive scene more strongly - two areas GW isn't pushing for market dominance and where there is ripe space in the market.

IF anything GW is pushing more toward the larger battles sector of the market with things like APOC





No printing establishment will print copyright material without permission from the copyright holder; but you shoudl be well within your rights to print off a paper copy of a digital book for personal use (just like you can make a copy of any game or book your purchase; for personal use and archiving). It only becomes illegal when you start to distribute the copies.

 Kroothawk wrote:
People follow the official numbers for quite some time and see that despite crazy price hikes, revenue is flat for 7 years (inflation adjusted). Even the doubling of prices lately (e.g. Hobbit, Codices, many standards and elites) didn't help:

Make sure to label the axis of your graphs.

And my point is that people have been saying this kind of stuff for years. When we get the news they are out of business, I'll believe it. Otherwise, in 5 years we can talk about how revenues are flat again despite price changes.

 pretre wrote:

And my point is that people have been saying this kind of stuff for years. When we get the news they are out of business, I'll believe it. Otherwise, in 5 years we can talk about how revenues are flat again despite price changes.

I understand your point, I just do not think it is a basis on which to make a strong inference.

GW isn't doing "badly" right now in terms of revenue. Year over year revenue is about the same now as it was in 2001/2002, before the LOTR bubble. When the bubble popped, GW dipped down, but not below pre-bubble levels. The difference between now and 1994 though is stark. GW is no longer growing. The company was growing like gangbusters in the 90s, and then got on the LOTR train for a few years. That situation has now dramatically changed.

GW has stagnated. Year over year revenue has been essentially flat, but during a period when GW has, each fiscal year, gone to unprecedented lengths to increase its revenue. I don't really believe that GW has hit a saturation point and is sitting comfortably. If GW was comfortable in its position, would we see as many unusual, drastic, goodwill destroying practices? GW is not coasting on a formula that works. GW is constantly trying to find new ways to squeeze blood out of a stone, and even the Chairman/CEO recently said that "Games Workshop has had a mixed year." From the mouth of Tom Kirby, that's next to saying GW is eating its boots to survive.

The data today and the data in the 90s are starkly different. GW knows it is having difficulties. This isn't just me saying this. Tom Kirby is not out in front of investors with a smile plastered on his face talking about how much butt-kicking his company is doing. Kirby is telling investors that things are going okay and that they shouldn't complain because GW is still spitting out dividends. That's a fine message, but the subtext is that GW is struggling to prevent decline.

These digital codices are an example of that. When I asked what made the loss of goodwill acceptable, what I meant was that the potential benefits of a digital only codex are clear: reduced costs and greater revenue. GW does not have to pay to print the books, store them, ship them, and so forth, and GW gets the full MSRP from a direct sale, rather than 40% from a distributor. GW wants that money badly enough that it is willing to risk losing customers, unless GW is trying to attract a different type of customer, but does that mean GW has written off its core customer base already?

Clearly, GW is not trying to both keep its current customers and attract new customers. And this decision is part of a very long and growing list of ways in which GW has been essentially trading a loss of goodwill for potentially greater revenues. This has been going on since 2006, and yet revenue has remained essentially flat. So GW has been destroying goodwill in an effort to remain stable.

But this stability is an illusion, which is my point. It is an illusion because there are only so many ways to cut costs and jack up revenue, and it is an illusion because these "gains" have been at the expense of a shrinking customer base. Wargaming is a social activity. Every customer lost has a compounding effect. Anecdotally, we are seeing this effect as local gaming groups simply stop playing GW games altogether. What we are seeing, I think, is actually an increasingly rapid decline in customers that has been masked by correspondingly aggressive methods of increasing revenue from the extant customer base. This has been done at the expense of goodwill, which has lead to the loss of more customers, and the cycle repeats.

GW is even pricing itself to the point that it will probably run into increasing difficulties acquiring new (even short term) customers. GW has been shedding introductory products, opting instead for limited edition splash releases intended to suck more money out of long term, loyal customers; customers who are already heavily invested in GW, and the same customers GW is steadily alienating.

It seems to me that GW was hoping the Hobbit license would prove to be another bubble, but GW forced out Priestly and the other folks that made LOTR a bubble in the first place, and the Hobbit has been a dramatic failure. Evidence from the Chapterhouse case demonstrates that Warhammer Fantasy is essentially dead in the water, and 40K is fading, being replaced increasingly by one-off licensing and Black Library sales. These are not "sky-is-falling" predictions. These are simple inferences based on easily accessible facts.

GW's demise is neither going to be quick, nor inevitable, but GW is on track to begin a decline. I think we are already seeing that decline in short-term revenue gimmicks that are eroding the company's goodwill with established customers and consequently its market share. GW has cash on hand, few significant debts, very valuable intellectual property, and a huge amount of momentum. So too did TSR, and the comparisons between the two companies are striking. GW started experiencing stagnant revenue in 2006. By 2008, that stagnation was clearly evident. It was around this time that GW hired Gill Stevenson and Mark Wells, and we saw massive changes in the company's behavior. Wells slashed costs to the bone and kept the company revenue stable, and Gill aggressively defended the company's only clearly valuable asset: it's intellectual property.

But the company has likely seen declining unit sales, and Gill has done little other than erode the strength of GW's "IP," cost the company a fabulous amount of money to do it, and set a grease fire in GW's goodwill kitchen. Now, both are gone, and GW has again radically changed its behavior, though the focus of that behavior remains a ruthless attempt to maintain revenue.

Find me a quote like that from 1994.

Can you sum that up for me? Obviously I can't find a quote with quotes that match specific instances of the last 10 years, since those years didn't exist yet.

I have found quotes with people citing stagnation, lack of market share, dilution of intellectual property, failure to accomodate customers, alienation of customer base, giving up old customers for new customers, etc so on, going back to the 90's. While the specific details may be different (as time has passed), the theme is the same...

"GW is doing all these things that will cause their business to fail."

They have all been wrong and I bet that you are going to be wrong.

Tell you what. 5 years from now, when GW is still in business and we have this thread again, paypal me a dollar. If GW goes out of business between now and then, I'll do the same for you.

Guarantee I make a dollar in 5 years.

 pretre wrote:
Can you sum that up for me? Obviously I can't find a quote with quotes that match specific instances of the last 10 years, since those years didn't exist yet.

I have found quotes with people citing stagnation, lack of market share, dilution of intellectual property, failure to accomodate customers, alienation of customer base, giving up old customers for new customers, etc so on, going back to the 90's. While the specific details may be different (as time has passed), the theme is the same...

"GW is doing all these things that will cause their business to fail."

They have all been wrong and I bet that you are going to be wrong.

Tell you what. 5 years from now, when GW is still in business and we have this thread again, paypal me a dollar. If GW goes out of business between now and then, I'll do the same for you.

Guarantee I make a dollar in 5 years.

I never said GW was going to be out of business in 5 years. That is a critical disconnect. I expect that GW is going to find some way to turn things around (there's plenty of room to do it, but it aint what GW has been doing, that's obvious), slide into slowly falling revenue, increasingly shift its focus to IP licensing and Black Library allowing the games to dwindle, or get bought up by someone like Hasbro (which may actually be happening right now).

Tell you what, if you want to make a bet, I'll bet that Hasbro owns Games Workshop 5 years from now. I'll bet that 5 years from now GW's year over year revenue is down 20% from the 2012-2013 fiscal year. I'll bet that 5 years from now GW will have pivoted back towards a focus on its customers, backed off on aggressive IP enforcement, tightened focus on a smaller, higher quality product line, and is employing some of the hottest digital sculptors and game designers in the industry.

I'll make those bets. I will not bet that GW will be out of business in 5 years, that's ludicrous. This is the inherent problem with comparing something someone said in 1994 to what I am saying now and making the sole inference that if so-and-so was wrong in '94, I am wrong today.

weeble1000 wrote:
Tell you what, if you want to make a bet, I'll bet that Hasbro owns Games Workshop 5 years from now.

I'll take that one.

I'll bet that 5 years from now GW's year over year revenue is down 20% from the 2012-2013 fiscal year.

And that one.

I'll bet that 5 years from now GW will have pivoted back towards a focus on its customers, backed off on aggressive IP enforcement, tightened focus on a smaller, higher quality product line, and is employing some of the hottest digital sculptors and game designers in the industry.

edit: This one is weird, so I'll skip it to make the math easy. edit2: To be clear, I'm not taking this one because it is not fair to you since it has too many things in it not because I think it will happen.

$0.50 each.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My main point is that every attempt to predict the future re: GW has been laughable in the past and I think it will be equally laughable in the future.

GW will continue to chug along and make games and people will piss and moan about it.

 pretre wrote:

My main point is that every attempt to predict the future re: GW has been laughable in the past and I think it will be equally laughable in the future.

GW will continue to chug along and make games and people will piss and moan about it.

And that attitude made tons of sense when GW was posting consistent year over year growth. That is no longer the case. The objective reality is that Games Workshop's revenue has been essentially static for seven years in spite of consistent efforts to increase revenue. My inferences are based on these sorts of data, and I am not saying GW is going to be gone in 5 years. Your inferences are solely based on the fact that GW has been in business for more than 25 years. I just think mine are more reasonable.

I could be wrong, but so have the folks, not unlike you, who have been spouting about GW inevitably starting to show growth in the lead up to the next annual report. For seven years, these people have been dead wrong. So I can make the same inference you are making, only I haven't because that would be a rather weak inference. I have heard people say that the Hobbit would be another bubble, that with 6th edition 40K being released there would be solid year over year growth, that Warhammer Fantasy isn't dying, that GW's prices aren't really going up, that GW has bee doing great because we are in the middle of a recession. None of these conclusions have made much sense in light of the facts, and GW's revenue has remained flat. GW is not growing.

GW is growing certain parts of its business, like Black Library, but doing so while other parts are shrinking. In 2012, Warhammer 40K made up 50% of GW's total revenue, not including Forge World, not including Black Library, not including licensing. 50%. I'd have to look, but I think BL alone made up another 20% of GW's revenue. How much room does that leave for Warhammer Fantasy? See, one can look at the data and make a reasonable inference that Warhammer Fantasy sales are pitifully low. One can make a further reasonable inference that Games Workshop is becoming a one trick pony. One can make a reasonable inference that GW's continued success is tied to making zero mistakes in its 40K line. One bungled release and GW could face serious issues.

In the year that saw the release of both the Hobbit and 6th Edition 40K and clever accounting shenanigans, GW was still only able to tell investors with a straight face that it had been a "mixed year." With 40K being at least 50% of GW's total revenue, not showing a growth in revenue in a year in which the entire 40K customer base is obligated to buy new products is simply not a good sign. When you compare that abject failure to growth in other areas of the business, the reasonable inference is a corresponding drop in Warhammer 40K revenue.

Reasonable inferences. That's the key here. Reasonable inferences. Try looking at the data and making some reasonable inferences.

Guess we'll see in 5 years.

 pretre wrote:
Guess we'll see in 5 years.

So we shouldn't have a discussion about it in the mean time?

'You're totes wrong, you'll see.' Is that the level of intellectual discourse into which we have descended?

Okay, fine. You can sit over there, stick your head in the dirt, and pull it out in five years. I will continue to look at the evolving nature of the situation and discuss it like an intelligent adult. If you're right, you can totally come back and say, "I told you so" all you want. I hope that this will be satisfying for you.