Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

weeble1000 wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Guess we'll see in 5 years.

So we shouldn't have a discussion about it in the mean time?

'You're totes wrong, you'll see.' Is that the level of intellectual discourse into which we have descended?

Okay, fine. You can sit over there, stick your head in the dirt, and pull it out in five years. I will continue to look at the evolving nature of the situation and discuss it like an intelligent adult. If you're right, you can totally come back and say, "I told you so" all you want. I hope that this will be satisfying for you.

Woah, down boy. No reason to attack me about it.

I think we've covered most of the bases. I do not disagree with the facts that you have laid out. I simply disagree with the end result. I don't think that you and I continuing to go around in circles is useful (especially in a thread where we have been OT for quite some time).

Feel free to think I'm an idiot for disagreeing with you though.

NoggintheNog wrote:

 Badablack wrote:
All the ipad codices can be installed just fine on a home computer, where they can be opened as a pdf.

You can't.

Ibooks is a proprietary system, you can't even open them on a mac at present , let alone a PC, and they certainly won't open with a pdf reader.

Macs running 10.9 now have iBooks. 10.9 is a free OS upgrade so unless you have a non-Intel Mac, it shouldn't be a problem to view your codex there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Are there that many people that want to sit at their computer and read a book?

I was thinking most people don't have iPads, iPods, iPhones, etc... and would like a decent way to perhaps throw the book on their laptop and take it with them. I did that with my netbook before I got my Kindle Fire.

I keep scans of all of my rule books on my laptop. It is much easier to bring it with me than a bunch of hardback books, and keeps my books in great shape. Really comes in handy for games like Pathfinder, where I can have my entire library of source material with me at games away from home.

This whole things started because you jumped in and denigrated my opinion as being little more than mindless internet hyperbole.

I have since explained my reasoning, based on available data, and your response has amounted to the repetition of the argument that because others have said similar things 10 years ago in radically different circumstances, and were wrong, I am wrong too.

I think 'you're totes wrong' synthesizes that reasoning pretty succinctly, with the added bonus of reflecting your mindless internetness implication back at you, which was admittedly a tad aggressive, but excuse me for thinking that if you could dish out a little bit of ribbing, you could also take it.

If you do not want to engage in the discussion, that's fine. But you may want to consider the manner in which you chose to start it. It seems that you prefer to start a discussion by being vaguely insulting, but don't really want to participate in it in any meaningful way. That does not strike me as being terribly polite or terribly productive.

weeble1000 wrote:
This whole things started because you jumped in and denigrated my opinion as being little more than mindless internet hyperbole.

You're the one who used clownshoes in a 'serious' post. Forgive me for thinking that that post might have been a little over the top.

I have since explained my reasoning, based on available data, and your response has amounted to the repetition of the argument that because others have said similar things 10 years ago in radically different circumstances, and were wrong, I am wrong too.

Yes, that's the point. These conditions and these ideas are the same that they have been for the last 10 years. Yes, the numbers and dates aren't the same because time passes but GW is largely doing the same things that it has always done. I don't expect a different outcome and I don't believe we will see one.

As I advised you several times, I do not disagree with the facts that you have presented. They are, after all, facts. I disagree with your opinion of what those facts mean for the future. Since we have a difference of opinion, it is unlikely that we are going to resolve it simply by going around in circles stating those opinions over and over again. Hence my want to just let the situation play out and see which opinion was correct.

Also, that'll totes be fun. ROFLMAO

Am I doing it right?

Yea, well I did not refer to any opinion that anyone expressed in this thread as "clownshoes." I used that word to describe Games Workshop's policies and business practices, which I find to be inscrutably self-defeating in a manner that defies rational understanding, i.e. clownshoes.

You quoted something I wrote and made a sweepingly insensitive and vaguely insulting characterization of it. Which, by the way, I did not jump on you about. My response was merely to clarify my opinion, and provide a reasoned explanation as to why I disagree.

I agree that you explained your opinion, but it simply does not make a ton of sense. You agree with the facts I referenced (indirectly), which demonstrate that GW's behavior today is not the same as it was 10 years ago. My opinions are based on making inferences about changes in the behavior of the company that have produced markedly different results. Different behavior, different results. You agree with the difference in results, but not the difference in behavior?

Your opinion actually ignores these facts and draws some sort of connection between what I am saying today and what someone said ten years ago. I have tried to explain why that is not a terribly reasonable inference, and you seem to agree with the basis of my opinion (which inherently undermines yours), but nevertheless maintain the same opinion. Then you want to stop discussing it for five years!

What the heck? You provoke a discussion, fail to make a rational argument, and then want to just stop discussing it for half a decade. I think that is pretty crazy. I think that you are simply having trouble making a rational argument, and want to stop discussing it.

If you want to stop talking about it, fine, but what I find frustrating is the idea that you seem to think that it isn't worth discussing when you started the discussion in the first place.

Here, let me apologize for my " sweepingly insensitive and vaguely insulting characterization" of your post. Can we move on now?

Let me repost the second half of my post now that we have that over:

As I advised you several times, I do not disagree with the facts that you have presented. They are, after all, facts. I disagree with your opinion of what those facts mean for the future. Since we have a difference of opinion, it is unlikely that we are going to resolve it simply by going around in circles stating those opinions over and over again. Hence my want to just let the situation play out and see which opinion was correct.

I don't know your chops with regard to history and time served in the hobby, Pretre, but one thing I do find now, having started again two or three years ago after a hiatus of 10 years or so, is that these days I can legitimately choose to play a non-GW game and be confident of finding an opponent/opponents.

This was never the case back in the 90s/early 2000s, where stuff might gain a bit of momentum before ultimately disappearing, and I believe the presence of viable, quality, well supported (by both the community and their producers) alternatives is something relatively new, which ultimately makes the predictions of doom (while still overstated) more plausible now than 10 years ago.

Personally I wonder if there are parallels to be drawn between Kirby/GW and Fergie/Manchester Utd, in that the departure of a significant management figure might be the thing that causes the wheels to fall off.

It is still too early to call for Man Utd and obviously Kirby probably won't be off for at least two or three years yet! but time will tell!

 azreal13 wrote:
I don't know your chops with regard to history and time served in the hobby, Pretre, but one thing I do find now, having started again two or three years ago after a hiatus of 10 years or so, is that these days I can legitimately choose to play a non-GW game and be confident of finding an opponent/opponents.

This is very true. Although there were alternatives back then, but they never lasted long. (Warzone, etc). Seems like WMH, etc are sticking around. GW is still the company where you can get a game anywhere but others are starting to share that as well.

But back to the burning question, where can one print a digital codex in the UK for less than £10?

I changed the print options to the crappiest paper and monotone and the best quote i found was £23. I could pretty much buy a ream of paper and an ink cartridge and do it myself for that price.

 filbert wrote:
But back to the burning question, where can one print a digital codex in the UK for less than £10?

I changed the print options to the crappiest paper and monotone and the best quote i found was £23. I could pretty much buy a ream of paper and an ink cartridge and do it myself for that price.

Did anywhere say they would actually print the material for you? Most printing enterprises won't touch anything with copyright on it at all or indeed anything professional looking unless they have a signed document or know that you're the copyright holder. It's not worth their job or company to do otherwise (you get the same if you turn up with photographs and ask for scan and print when the work isn't yours).

Whilst home use still covers you the company still won't touch it so home printing is likely the only way you'l lbe able to get copies made.

Office Max had no problem printing it for me...

 azreal13 wrote:
I don't know your chops with regard to history and time served in the hobby, Pretre, but one thing I do find now, having started again two or three years ago after a hiatus of 10 years or so, is that these days I can legitimately choose to play a non-GW game and be confident of finding an opponent/opponents.

This was never the case back in the 90s/early 2000s, where stuff might gain a bit of momentum before ultimately disappearing, and I believe the presence of viable, quality, well supported (by both the community and their producers) alternatives is something relatively new, which ultimately makes the predictions of doom (while still overstated) more plausible now than 10 years ago.

Personally I wonder if there are parallels to be drawn between Kirby/GW and Fergie/Manchester Utd, in that the departure of a significant management figure might be the thing that causes the wheels to fall off.

It is still too early to call for Man Utd and obviously Kirby probably won't be off for at least two or three years yet! but time will tell!

Dependant on your view of Kirby, his departure could allow the GW wagon to be fitted with round wheels rather than the hexagonal ones it seems to be using at the moment.

 pretre wrote:
Office Max had no problem printing it for me...

May I ask what the circumstances were that you asked under?
Don't get me wrong; I believe you. I just think it could be valuable to know how you approached the subject, for those of us who might want to do so ourselves.

I'm thinking that something like, "Hey. I bought this ebook, but there are no options to print it out. I don't always have my [machine type here] with me, and I'd like to have a physical copy, as well. Can you guys print a copy for me, if I get you the pdf?" might work. Then again, I don't know if there is any kind of verbiage at the front of the book that might make an observant printer wary.

That said, you can ALWAYS find people willing to copy things for you. In the 90's, I used to go to a small printing place in Richmond, VA to get certain pages from D&D books copied. The first time I asked, he said he couldn't because it was illegal. I thanked him for his time and went to turn away. He stopped me and told me he'd take care of me anyway. After that, it was never a problem. He was the owner, BTW, and not just an employee.


Eric

 MagickalMemories wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Office Max had no problem printing it for me...

May I ask what the circumstances were that you asked under?
Don't get me wrong; I believe you. I just think it could be valuable to know how you approached the subject, for those of us who might want to do so ourselves.

I went to Officemax.com uploaded the PDF, put 'License agreement allows one copy for personal use' in the special instructions and then hit submit.

Drove over to the office max when they called me that it was ready and picked it up.

I imagine you could do the same thing with a jump drive if you drove in and asked them to do it in person.

Can we just agree that GW can go on doubling prices and halving box sales forever?

 filbert wrote:
But back to the burning question, where can one print a digital codex in the UK for less than £10?

I changed the print options to the crappiest paper and monotone and the best quote i found was £23. I could pretty much buy a ream of paper and an ink cartridge and do it myself for that price.

I'd suggest looking into dissertation binding. You can usually find that for fifteen or so.

 pretre wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
I don't know your chops with regard to history and time served in the hobby, Pretre, but one thing I do find now, having started again two or three years ago after a hiatus of 10 years or so, is that these days I can legitimately choose to play a non-GW game and be confident of finding an opponent/opponents.

This is very true. Although there were alternatives back then, but they never lasted long. (Warzone, etc). Seems like WMH, etc are sticking around. GW is still the company where you can get a game anywhere but others are starting to share that as well.

Last OT post in this thread I promise.

You can then include games like infinity or X Wing, where the buy in for a faction is so low that most keen players are likely to have adequate minis to comfortably put together two full blooded lists, which makes introduction that much easier. GW ubiquity circumvents the need for that somewhat, but I've noticed one or two players who play exclusively WHFB really struggle to get games at our club, although others may be interested in playing, they're not prepared to undertake the time and investment to do so. In comparison, two of us started playing X Wing in March/April, I've run demo games and the number of players who have bought in is almost 100% of those I've demoed the game to (and those that haven't have declared their intention to do so, when finances allow, so will ultimately be 100%) Now, almost half of the regular attendance of 25 or so own it, and probably nearer two thirds can play, and like it.

So while I broadly agree that those forecasting GW's demise are probably over-egging things a little, I'd say they're under greater collective pressure from competition than any other time in their history, and personally I do t think they're handling it well.

Wow, that escalated quickly.

So I'm getting the impression that because I bought the most expensive version of it, that it precludes me from printing it off of the iPad?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It looks like I can sync it to my PC and print through my desktop... hmmm. Anyone done this?

It'd probably take a twenty minutes or so, but if you press the lock button and home button simultaneously, it'll take a snapshot of each page. Snap, swipe, snap, swipe, snap, swipe. Once you've got every page snapped, just upload the images to your PC, and create a pdf. If you are careful, and do the images in the right order, you shouldn't need to faff about organising them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Obviously, once you have a PDF, printing becomes a simple affair.

Eggs is right about that.
Now, problem 1 is that you'll have multiple copies of the same page in some instances, since many have special rules that pop up when you touch them. The obvious ones (Instant Death, etc.) you can ignore. Army specific rules, however... not so much.
Might be better off to take all the "pop up" rules and put them on one page... you can do that by screen-shotting or copying the pdf pages, putting them into something as simple as Windows Paint, then editing them.
It would be a PITA, but what are your other choices in that circumstance, if you want to have it all?

That is, of course, unless the iPad versions have them all on one page, somewhere (which I haven't noticed in my VERY LIMITED experience with them).

Eric

 pretre wrote:
Office Max had no problem printing it for me...

What was the price in addition to the digital codex price?
Is the print out as durable as, say, a softcover Codex?
How much time and what programs were necessary to edit the pdf?