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 Psienesis wrote:
I'm not a fan of the power-creep of Space Marines between their Codices, BL novels and video games.

The might of Marines is not explicitly shown in the codices though, for the most part.

BL Marines often seem weaker, if nothing else.

the marines in the game are nothing comparable to marines in the fluff

GE stormtroopers are the Elite of the elite for the Empire

The Imperial Guard (those red-robed dudes hanging out with the Emperor) of Star Wars are the elite-of-the-elite. Stormtroopers are the rank-and-file.

The 501st (You know, the guys on Endor) really were the elite of the Imperial Army though.

no, the 501st were Anakin's personal troopers.

They were not present on endor according to the movies (Battlefront 2 suggests so though) but they were the ones responsible for raising the Jedi Temple

I care not for the who wins debate but that pic is pretty dam awesome.

Youre welcome

I was just posting that

"Stormtrooper armour: Stops all of the following -list of things it stops-"

But is useless vs stones and stone arrowheads

 Void__Dragon wrote:
The 501st (You know, the guys on Endor) really were the elite of the Imperial Army though.

During and immediately following the Clone Wars, yes.

Afterwards, in the Rebellion Era? Not so much. As casualties mounted, the original clones were replaced with either copies of copies of clones, or with natural (non-Mando) humans... and the 501st became a shadow of its former glory.

Problem with this argument is that for the most part neither would be able to move in eachothers respective galaxies.

IoM relies on the Warp, and the GE relies on carefully mapped out Hyperspace lanes, and these take a very long time to properly mapout, hence why parts of the galaxy are still uncharted. It all depends once again on which galaxy the hypothetical conflict is taking place in.

In the milky way, which for all intents and purposes, contrary to an earlier post, seems to be larger than the SW galaxy, the GE would likely lose, simply because they would 1. not be able to move and secondly would be ground down by relentlessness of the 40k universe/IoM.

Now in the SW galaxy, IoM, despite all it has to throw at the GE, would simply be outmaneuvered and outgunned.

If you start adding Chaos, Orks and other parts of 40k into the debate, then 40k simply wins due to its grimdark nature, I highly doubt the GE would even try to persist in any campaign in the Milky Way.

Another problem is that in fiction there is little true consistency, stuff can do stuff for the sake of plot, though there is sources that aim to provide scientific basis for weapons and techs they usually fall short, suffice to say a deal of common sense and fairness has to be used. Fans of one Universe or another also tend to distort things in their favour.

tl;dr Two different Universes, couldn't really say who'd win.

(but srsly 40k would win cuz Orkz)

so you pick up both armies and place them in a random galaxy, neither side has the home field advantage

 IHateNids wrote:
so you pick up both armies and place them in a random galaxy, neither side has the home field advantage

and then the IoM cannot move while the GE ships can move very quickly only after having set up hyperspace lanes.

 Exergy wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
so you pick up both armies and place them in a random galaxy, neither side has the home field advantage

and then the IoM cannot move while the GE ships can move very quickly only after having set up hyperspace lanes.

Same universe or Different universe?

and does random galaxy have sentient life? (that will determine if there are daemons/chaos in that area)

Cause if its the same universe IOM will have speed advantge of a Calm warp (even if they leave the galaxy the warp is still there)

Is there any evidence that the Immaterium exists outside the Milky Way?

Is there any evidence that hyperspace works outside of star wars?

Da krimson barun wrote:
Is there any evidence that hyperspace works outside of star wars?

theoretical physics?

And to get back to my second point - is there anything either of them can gain or even have the ability to pursue by getting into a conflict? The IoM is surrounded by hostile forces on all sides and also ever watchful for inevitable internal struggles. Another enemy is the last thing they need. The GE is also more inclined to keep onto what they have instead of going outside their area of influence. Palpatine has personally stopped efforts to explore outside the domain of his Empire.

 Happyjew wrote:
Is there any evidence that the Immaterium exists outside the Milky Way?

eh really only "The warp is a Parallel of real space" seeing as real space kind of goes to the edge of the universe so does the warp according to that phrase

The oldones built they webway which allowed them to travel across the galaxy without suffering from the tides of the warp, are the old ones from this galaxy or from another one? it seems that if they were from another one what reason would they of had to build the webway if the warp didn't exsist out there.


I don't know what this is from but "The Webway is an extradimensional construct that spans the dimensions of Creation, primarily defined by the fact that it sits between the material realm and the roiling tides of the Warp, an interstice comparable to the fabric of a veil cast over something foul."

Real space spans creation, webway was built between real space and the warp, If the webway spans creation than logically the warp would to.

 Ninjacommando wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 IHateNids wrote:
so you pick up both armies and place them in a random galaxy, neither side has the home field advantage

and then the IoM cannot move while the GE ships can move very quickly only after having set up hyperspace lanes.

Same universe or Different universe?

and does random galaxy have sentient life? (that will determine if there are daemons/chaos in that area)

Cause if its the same universe IOM will have speed advantge of a Calm warp (even if they leave the galaxy the warp is still there)

but they cannot navigate the warp without the astronomican.

If you are assuming that they take earth, the golden throne, and big E with them to the new Galaxy then it is just a matter of time before some GE forces take him out.

IoM navigation depends on big E, how they ever got around before big E is the question.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Da krimson barun wrote:
Is there any evidence that hyperspace works outside of star wars?

from the way it is written, yes it should work anywhere. The issues is that the nav computer needs to have suffiencet data about the route being traveled.

Star Wars ships don't need mapped out hyperspace lanes to travel. Hyperspace lanes in the Star Wars galaxy are simply the fastest routes between the largest commercial hubs, but ships can enter hyperspace in any direction they choose. Their nav computers are sophisticated enough to detect celestial bodies and/or gravitational anomalies that would affect the ship and drop them out of hyperspace accordingly.

Sorry decided to remove my post

 Exergy wrote:


but they cannot navigate the warp without the astronomican.

If you are assuming that they take earth, the golden throne, and big E with them to the new Galaxy then it is just a matter of time before some GE forces take him out.

IoM navigation depends on big E, how they ever got around before big E is the question.

During the GC they were able to navigate the warp with out the astronomican because the warp was relatively calm. the only reason they need the Golden throne is because the warp is now hurricane storm that gaks on everthing 24/7.

if they are in a new galaxy they would be able to get around in this "calm warp" aslong as there aren't any sentient beings in galaxy before they arrive

Only if they suddenly learn how to navigate without triangulating based off the Astronomican. Navigators have been relying on that fixed point for 10,000 years now. It is highly unlikely that any of them know how to pilot a vessel without using that as a reference point.

And if we want to talk about SW vs 40K...

... which era of SW? Are the Sith also involved?


If the Sith get involved...

Darth Nihilus? This man kills planets by flying past them.
Exar Kun? He causes stars to super-nova with his mind.
Naga Sadow? This guy has a tactical mind that gives Yarrick and Creed a run for their money, not to mention that his own Sith Master may have taught him the secret to living as nothing more than a severed head.

The Sun-Crusher? This is a vessel that can destroy worlds without having to go to them. It sits somewhere... anywhere... and fires super-nova-causing torpedoes through hyperspace at a designated target. These torpedoes are unstoppable while in transit, and offer a defense force only minutes to stop them once they arrive in-system and head for the local star.

 Psienesis wrote:
Only if they suddenly learn how to navigate without triangulating based off the Astronomican. Navigators have been relying on that fixed point for 10,000 years now. It is highly unlikely that any of them know how to pilot a vessel without using that as a reference point.

And if we want to talk about SW vs 40K...

... which era of SW? Are the Sith also involved?


If the Sith get involved...

Darth Nihilus? This man kills planets by flying past them.
Exar Kun? He causes stars to super-nova with his mind.
Naga Sadow? This guy has a tactical mind that gives Yarrick and Creed a run for their money, not to mention that his own Sith Master may have taught him the secret to living as nothing more than a severed head.

The Sun-Crusher? This is a vessel that can destroy worlds without having to go to them. It sits somewhere... anywhere... and fires super-nova-causing torpedoes through hyperspace at a designated target. These torpedoes are unstoppable while in transit, and offer a defense force only minutes to stop them once they arrive in-system and head for the local star.

Actually the Sun Crusher has to be in system to fire its torpedoes into a star. The Galaxy Gun is the one that fires Hyperspace capable missiles.

Ah, right.

The Sun-Crusher had the advantage of being able to be shot by a Death Star and not even blink and simply fly through a capital ship (tearing it in half) without even scratching its paint.

 Psienesis wrote:
Ah, right.

The Sun-Crusher had the advantage of being able to be shot by a Death Star and not even blink and simply fly through a capital ship (tearing it in half) without even scratching its paint.

Yup, thats the one. The one that needed to be placed inside a star just to make it inaccessible to the baddies. Of course when it was pulled back out of the sun, it was still fully functional.

We don't even know if it is still functional. It was dropped off in a Black Hole, so nobody would be able to recover it.

Well, true, but then this goes back to my earlier question. At what point in the SW universe are we talking about having them fight the IoM? If it's Rebellion-era... pff... they're worse off, technologically, than the IoM is compared to the Great Crusade.

Star Wars won't get its really good stuff until either very much before this time, or well after it.

 Psienesis wrote:

Darth Nihilus? This man kills planets by flying past them.

Nihilus is indeed very powerful.

Magnus the Red is more-so. Capable of also "killing planets" (Razed the surface of Prospero in his battle with Leman Russ, stopped Ahriman's world-pulverizing Rubric, etc.), has far greater telepathic power since even from the other side of the galaxy he telepathically creamed Lorgar, who similarly mentally dominated the Daemon inhabiting Fulgrim, who as you will recall was able to telepathically control an entire planet. And indeed, in A Thousand Sons, a mere flex of effort on his part caused nightmares among an entire feral world he happened to be astral projecting by as a side-effect.

Exar Kun? He causes stars to super-nova with his mind.

Uh, Kun never did that, to my knowledge. I am pretty sure you are thinking of Naga Sadow, who used tech, and Dark Side relics to accomplish this. It was not under his own power.

Naga Sadow? This guy has a tactical mind that gives Yarrick and Creed a run for their money, not to mention that his own Sith Master may have taught him the secret to living as nothing more than a severed head.

I know relatively little on Sadow so will take your word for it.

The Sun-Crusher? This is a vessel that can destroy worlds without having to go to them. It sits somewhere... anywhere... and fires super-nova-causing torpedoes through hyperspace at a designated target. These torpedoes are unstoppable while in transit, and offer a defense force only minutes to stop them once they arrive in-system and head for the local star.

The Sun Crusher is indeed powerful, as is the Planet Gun. It is hard to say if a world's Planetary Defense Grid could deal with it.

GE would probably beat the Imperium in the long run, simply due to logistics. FTL travel in SW is just so much faster and more reliable, and while the Imperium would have the advantage on the ground and in terms of one-on-one space battles IMO, the GE would decide the terms of combat damn near every time.

That said, to use the best of SW, one must use the best of 40k. In which SW would be unceremoniously crushed. Even the mightiest of beings in SW like Abeloth, the Bedlam Spirits, or the Father, simply can not compare in power or scale to the Chaos Gods, C'tan, Eldar gods, or any other deities. Not to mention the variety of mortal nasties running under them.