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I was leafing through my Codex: Space Marines this evening and read through the chapter relics section again. And then I was like "whoa!"

The 2+ and the 6++ with one turn of 2++ is pretty meh, as everyone agrees. However, what I haven't seen mentioned (I did some searching) is the fact that if also gives Relentless.

So, for drop-pod armies, whether they're all-drop lists or just partially, a chapter master with this relic actually makes a ton of sense:

Chapter Master:
Armour Indomitus
The Primarch's Wrath
Power Weapon

=225 points

That's a lot less expensive than most of the Shield Eternal variants, and he can drop that Orbital Strike on turn 1, same as a biker. Except, unlike a biker, he's more likely to be in short-range with his squad, who might be a squad of Sterns with combi-weapons.

Bearing in mind that the Chapter Master -already- has a 4++. You're paying 25 points more for than Artificer Armour and a Storm Shield, and adding Relentless and a Shadow Field for 1 turn.

It's not buried treasure, but I think this item is worth a second look. for non-biker armies.

The problem is you can't pair it with a grav cannon or similar weapon that really benefits a great deal from Relentless.

Even if you don't play a biker army, many people will simply give their chapter master a bike anyways for the T5.

I wouldn't bother. Say you do put him in a drop pod, disembark, fire the orbital bombardment. What happens next? It will probably scatter off target and quite possibly land on your own guys that just dropped in. Relentless is best used on models packing heavy weapons or salvo weapons. Besides, unless you are taking a named character, I believe your HQs should be fairly cheap but still killy/durable enough to not easily give up a VP.

While I agree that the Armor Indomitus can be useful in certain situation, I see it more as a "fun" relic for Apoc games and such. For smaller scale or more competitive play there's a much cheaper alternative: Tactical Dreadnought Armour, it's half the price and provides a constant 5++ and relentless...

Neither is relevant for their invuls. If you get either on a Chapter Master or Captain, they have an Iron Halo anyway.

It's simply too expensive. Even if you subtract 20 points for artificer armor, I'm not spending 40 points to get a single turn 2++ when I can buy a stormshield for 15 points.

The armor is worth it alone for the ability to move and shoot the orbital bombard, and then for a 2+ invul, which means he can take out anything in melee. You only need 1 round in melee to win/lose.

I like it combined with Primarch's Wrath (and Teeth of Terra for good measure) as getting 5 AP4 bolter shots at 24" every turn can actually make a cap/chapter master surprisingly shooty.

The 2++ is situational, but nice if you run into any AP2 CC monsters. While this setup is epxeisive, I find he can compete with most of the other special characters in that price range.

if i was using primarch's wrath, it would only be on a captain attatched to a shooty bike squad.

Otherwise i'd make him a CC beast or a tank for the command squad.

Corollax wrote:
It's simply too expensive. Even if you subtract 20 points for artificer armor, I'm not spending 40 points to get a single turn 2++ when I can buy a stormshield for 15 points.

Think of it as, you're spending 40 points for 1 turn of 2++ and Relentless for the entire game.

I feel like its better on a librarian or a master of the forge, as the librarian has no invulnerable save whatsoever (considering the powers that provide that are in the pyromancy or telekinesis department), even though it is only a 6++ until you overload it for a turn for a 2++ and I recall vortex of doom is a heavy 1 large blast, which can benefit from the relentless if rolled for. This also pairs up well with primarch's wrath as other members have mentioned.

Master of the Forge can benefit from this with a conversion beamer if you don't have one on a bike for some reason and have a invulnerable save.

CDRAlbrecht wrote:
Think of it as, you're spending 40 points for 1 turn of 2++ and Relentless for the entire game.

That's overpriced because bike gives Relentless, +1T, and increased movement.

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:

CDRAlbrecht wrote:
Think of it as, you're spending 40 points for 1 turn of 2++ and Relentless for the entire game.

That's overpriced because bike gives Relentless, +1T, and increased movement.

Quite. The bike is such a good deal on a Captain or Chapter Master that it's practically a foregone conclusion. Once I've got relentless from the bike, all I'm left with is spending 40 points for a single turn 2++. That is plainly not worth the points because, again, I can get a 3++ for 25 points less.

Corollax wrote:

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:

CDRAlbrecht wrote:
Think of it as, you're spending 40 points for 1 turn of 2++ and Relentless for the entire game.

That's overpriced because bike gives Relentless, +1T, and increased movement.

Quite. The bike is such a good deal on a Captain or Chapter Master that it's practically a foregone conclusion. Once I've got relentless from the bike, all I'm left with is spending 40 points for a single turn 2++. That is plainly not worth the points because, again, I can get a 3++ for 25 points less.

Actually, you'd be spending 30 or so points for it, since you had to PAY for the bike in the first place.

I find that when defending conventional wisdom, people use funny math. Artificer Armour, a bike and a storm shield is 55 pts. Is that a good HQ? Yes. But nowhere in my OP did I say the Armour Indomitus build is better overall than a bikemaster. Of course, I guess I'm just taking it for granted that you read it in the first place.

What I said was: This relic makes a lot of sense for a drop pod army HQ. In fact, I'm starting to think it's the -best- generic HQ for a drop pod army.

If you're running a biker army, you should put your chapter master on a bike and not pay for the Armour Indomitus. I think it's weird that I'm even having to clarify that.

I used this yesterday, and it does combo very well with the primarch's wrath, which is a surprisingly good gun for 20 points (in the hands of a relentless BS 5 IC)

The thing is your already paying 20 points for the artificer armor, so your paying 40 points for the 2++ save and relentless. In the right situation that can be really valueable.

Regular Terminator AArmour also grants relentless though, so i don't see the point. It's not worth it for the one time 2++

 Brother Sergeant Bob wrote:
Regular Terminator AArmour also grants relentless though, so i don't see the point. It's not worth it for the one time 2++

Although the AI doesn't prevent you from doing sweeping advances. Given that outside the PW drop pod combo, the chapter master wants to be in combat, where sweeping advances can fell even riptides and wraithknights. Given that for 35 points more than terminator armor you get the 2++, Relentless, and can sweep, I think that makes the deal for me. Your HG blob will thank you for buying that armor once you sweep that annoying riptide.

The reason I was using it in my army is because I was running a "Skies of Death" list over the weekend.

On turn one I drop down 2 pods with 20 marines inside. The idea is that I want to make sure that those models are not killed. That's when I pop the 2+ save -- to keep me from losing the game before I begin

It's decent for Master of the forge with a conversion beamer(relentless, and an invulnerable save of some sort)

That is about it, and a bike is cheaper with more maneuverability + survivability.

 Paradigm wrote:
I like it combined with Primarch's Wrath (and Teeth of Terra for good measure)

Two Relic weapons is one more than you're allowed to take. See this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/109/550940.page

Terminator armor keeps you from sweeping the enemy, which is why most people who want to do that take artificer armor.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
I like it combined with Primarch's Wrath (and Teeth of Terra for good measure)

Two Relic weapons is one more than you're allowed to take. See this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/109/550940.page

The codex says that the armor does not replace a weapon, unlike the other relics.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
I like it combined with Primarch's Wrath (and Teeth of Terra for good measure)

Two Relic weapons is one more than you're allowed to take. See this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/109/550940.page

The codex says that the armor does not replace a weapon, unlike the other relics.

Primarchs wrath and teeth of terra are both relics.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
I like it combined with Primarch's Wrath (and Teeth of Terra for good measure)

Two Relic weapons is one more than you're allowed to take. See this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/109/550940.page

The codex says that the armor does not replace a weapon, unlike the other relics.

Primarchs wrath and teeth of terra are both relics.

It was mentioned towards the end of that thread that the Digital Edition allows you to take 2. Regardless, that's the way we've decided to play it until it is FAQed otherwise. No one I've played has had a problem with it once I've explained the ambiguity, and have accepted it.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

Two Relic weapons is one more than you're allowed to take. See this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/109/550940.page

The relevant post from that thread is this one:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/210/550940.page#6072258

There's nothing stating you cannot take 2 relic weapons, there is a rule saying you can replace one weapon with a relic. Some relics do not replace a weapon, however, leaving someone free to replace that weapon. This is the basis of models with multiple relic weapons / artefacts / etc.

 ace101 wrote:

 Brother Sergeant Bob wrote:
Regular Terminator AArmour also grants relentless though, so i don't see the point. It's not worth it for the one time 2++

Although the AI doesn't prevent you from doing sweeping advances. Given that outside the PW drop pod combo, the chapter master wants to be in combat, where sweeping advances can fell even riptides and wraithknights. Given that for 35 points more than terminator armor you get the 2++, Relentless, and can sweep, I think that makes the deal for me. Your HG blob will thank you for buying that armor once you sweep that annoying riptide.

Sweeping advance can fell a wraith knight ? Not sure how you guys play but fearless guys in my area tend not to leave combat