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Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Brisbane, Australia

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/04/california-police-body-cameras-cuts-violence-complaints-rialto

The occupant was said to be violent, so officer Carlos Ramirez approached the apartment warily. A dank smell wafted from inside. Ramirez bristled with body armour, radio, gun and Taser, but before knocking on the door he adjusted just one piece of equipment: a tiny camera on his collar.

A tubby, barefoot man with broken teeth and wild eyes opened the door. He appeared to be high. Ramirez questioned him about allegedly beating and evicting his stepson, a mentally disabled teenager. The man shifted from foot to foot and babbled about death threats.

The encounter, tense but polite, ended inconclusively, a routine police foray into family dysfunction – except for the fact it was all recorded. As he returned to his patrol car and next assignment, Ramirez tapped an app on his phone and uploaded the video. "Somewhere down the line something could happen and what that guy said, his demeanour, could be evidence."

Rialto, a small, working-class city that bakes in the San Bernardino foothills outside Los Angeles, appeared in the films Transformers and The Hangover. Among law enforcers, however, it is becoming better known for pioneering the use of body cameras on police officers.

Over the past year all 70 of its uniformed officers have been kitted out with the oblong devices, about the size of stubby cigars, and the results have emboldened police forces elsewhere in the US and in the UK to follow suit.

The College of Policing recently announced plans for large-scale trials of body-worn video in England and Wales, saying Rialto's experiment showed big drops in the use of force and in public complaints against officers. David Davis, a former shadow home secretary, has backed the idea. It follows "plebgate's denting of public trust.

Rialto has also become an example for US forces since a federal judge in New York praised its initiative.

"I think we've opened some eyes in the law enforcement world. We've shown the potential," said Tony Farrar, Rialto's police chief. "It's catching on."

Body-worn cameras are not new. Devon and Cornwall police launched a pilot scheme in 2006 and forces in Strathclyde, Hampshire and the Isle of Wight, among others, have also experimented.

But Rialto's randomised controlled study has seized attention because it offers scientific – and encouraging – findings: after cameras were introduced in February 2012, public complaints against officers plunged 88% compared with the previous 12 months. Officers' use of force fell by 60%.

"When you know you're being watched you behave a little better. That's just human nature," said Farrar. "As an officer you act a bit more professional, follow the rules a bit better."

Video clips provided by the department showed dramatic chases on foot – you can hear the officer panting – and by car that ended with arrests, and without injury. Complaints often stemmed not from operational issues but "officers' mouths", said the chief. "With a camera they are more conscious of how they speak and how they treat people."

The same applied to the public; once informed they were being filmed, even drunk or agitated people tended to become more polite, Farrar said. Those who lodged frivolous or bogus complaints about officers tended to retract them when shown video of the incidents. "It's like, 'Oh, I hadn't seen it that way.'"

Cameras made officers more careful about using force. "It's still part of the business, they still do it. But now they make better use of what we call verbal judo."

Fewer complaints and calmer policing, said Farrar, would reduce lawsuits and expensive payouts.


Images of police brutality have shaken California since grainy footage of Los Angeles police officers beating Rodney King ignited riots in 1992. (Rialto police fished King out of his pool after he accidentally drowned last year).

In May sheriff's deputies in Kern county confiscated videophone footage of them fatally beating a father-of-four, David Silva, prompting suspicion of a cover-up.http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/13/local/la-me-ln-bakersfield-beating-20130513 In those and other cases the officers did not know they were being filmed.

Farrar is a wonkish contrast to the stereotypical abrasive commander of TV dramas. He has several degrees, including a recent master's from Cambridge's Institute of Criminology, which planted the idea of methodically assessing the impact of body cameras.

Upon returning to Rialto (city motto: "bridge to progress") he obtained $100,000 (£62,640) in state and federal funding for the Taser-made cameras – about $1,000 each – plus servers and fibre-optic cables. Each officer has his or her own camera, mounted on collars, spectacles or caps, and is expected to activate it during interactions with the public. Encounters are logged and uploaded to a secure digital cloud service, evidence.com.

The chief advised bigger departments who wish to do the same to scale up incrementally, to iron out technical bugs and let officers get used to the idea.

In Rialto some bristled at the intrusion, fearing loss of privacy and autonomy. "I heard guys complaining it would get them into trouble, but I've had no problems so I'm OK with it," said Ramirez.

Most now accepted cameras as another part of the job, said Sgt Josh Lindsay. A self-confessed technophile, he said they provided context to contentious incidents partially captured by bystanders' phones. "Now you can see the [suspect] punching the officer twice in the face before he hits him with his baton."

Even more valuable, cameras aided evidence gathering, such as statements from domestic abuse victims, he said. "By the time those cases get to court often things have cooled down and the victim retracts. But with the video you see her with the bloody lip. There's nothing lost in translation."

Under California law police are not obliged to inform people of the filming. Local media coverage has spread awareness of the cameras but many, like the barefoot man questioned by Ramirez, appear oblivious. If there is to be a backlash, it is too early.

Even Orwell did not anticipate body cameras in 1984, but the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California, a frequent critic of police abuses, said with the right controls accountability gains would outweigh privacy concerns. It urged the department to regularly delete videos, and keep them private, unless needed for prosecutions.

Farrar said controls were in place. "No one wants to see these videos on YouTube."


While not a complete panacea to issues of police behaving badly, I think it's a great initiative in general, and should be instituted far more widely. It obviously . One of the big issues of more recent times has, I believe, been police jumping to violence and escalating situations without trying other options first, and if having cameras makes them consider other options first, that's an excellent outcome.

Looking for a club in Brisbane, Australia? Come and enjoy a game and a beer at Pubhammer, our friendly club in a pub at the Junction pub in Annerley (opposite Ace Comics), Sunday nights from 6:30. All brisbanites welcome, don't wait, check out our Club Page on Facebook group for details or to organize a game. We play all sorts of board and war games, so hit us up if you're interested.


Pubhammer is Moving! Starting from the 25th of May we'll be gaming at The Junction pub (AKA The Muddy Farmer), opposite Ace Comics & Games in Annerley! Still Sunday nights from 6:30 in the Function room Come along and play Warmachine, 40k, boardgames or anything else! 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

This has more application than police behaving badly. How many times has a cop said 'this is what happened' and the other guy said 'no this happened instead!' Now there will be evidence of what really happened. A cop chases a perp but never gets a good look at him? Video evidence that can be examined.

It's a good idea. Lets see where it goes.

   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Brisbane, Australia

 LordofHats wrote:
This has more application than police behaving badly. How many times has a cop said 'this is what happened' and the other guy said 'no this happened instead!' Now there will be evidence of what really happened. A cop chases a perp but never gets a good look at him? Video evidence that can be examined.

It's a good idea. Lets see where it goes.


Yeah, that's the great thing about this sort of study, it shows that the cameras are good for both the police and the public. The fact the benefits go both ways means there's a much better chance of police introducing them in more departments.

Looking for a club in Brisbane, Australia? Come and enjoy a game and a beer at Pubhammer, our friendly club in a pub at the Junction pub in Annerley (opposite Ace Comics), Sunday nights from 6:30. All brisbanites welcome, don't wait, check out our Club Page on Facebook group for details or to organize a game. We play all sorts of board and war games, so hit us up if you're interested.


Pubhammer is Moving! Starting from the 25th of May we'll be gaming at The Junction pub (AKA The Muddy Farmer), opposite Ace Comics & Games in Annerley! Still Sunday nights from 6:30 in the Function room Come along and play Warmachine, 40k, boardgames or anything else! 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

For some reason, somehow, our State Police has dashboard cameras that are specifically excluded from our Open Record laws.

Of course this is Oklahoma, the state where everybody has to comply with Open Record laws. Except the legislature, which is also specifically exempt per the law...
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

Awesome idea, however I think for it to work effectively, the data should not only record to physical memory but also upload directly to a central location. If the officer can just turn it off or choose not to upload the data it won't fix much when it comes to brutality or corruption.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/10 09:30:43


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in ca
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





There are pros and cons to this, and I'm torn between the two. While the pros are definitely laid out in the article as mentioned, the always-on recording of civilians could easily be taken as a massive 4th amendment rights violation, as *everyone* is being recorded, irrespective of whether or not there would otherwise be cause to record them.
   
Made in ca
Lieutenant Colonel







people are already subject to CCTV recordings, and every electronic move, be in on computer, cell phone, or whatever, being recorded and stored should organizations like the NSA ever want to look at it. your 4th amendmant is not violated every time you walk into a place with CCTV (Which is every single store, ever, and a lot of public places as well, even in canada, its everywhere)

this would, if anything, ensure the 4th amendmant, as a cops word is pretty much always taken over a "normal" persons, so this would in fact protect your rights.



Im for this, it seems like a good idea, although its easy to get around with a bit of tape or something.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

 azazel the cat wrote:
There are pros and cons to this, and I'm torn between the two. While the pros are definitely laid out in the article as mentioned, the always-on recording of civilians could easily be taken as a massive 4th amendment rights violation, as *everyone* is being recorded, irrespective of whether or not there would otherwise be cause to record them.


I think some of the dashboard cam systems only record when the lights are activated, in those systems you are only recorded when the police already has a reason to pull you over to begin with.
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear







Did any of y'all see the go-pro of an officer entering a home during domestic abuse? That was tiiiiiight, I'll try to find it.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






I like it... Anything that will keep some of the overzealous "wrong mentality for the job" police officer types from acting out on the citizenry is a good thing.

GG
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Speaking as a Brit, my trust in the police has not been eroded by Plebgate.

Everyone knows the police are not squeaky clean knights in armour. Nor are politicians.

It's pretty obvious that the Tories are prepared to spend as much public money as it takes to get revenge for a very petty matter that happened months ago, and they are banging on this "public trust" drum to justify it.

Ironically, "Plebgate" was recorded on CCTV without sound, and neither the policemen nor the cyclist involved had cameras on them.

Back to the main topic which would seem to revolve around the general concept of 4th Amendment rights.

People have the right to carry cameras and photograph anything in a public place, except for designated secret buildings or areas.

Lots of car drivers and especially cyclists already carry cameras in case of accident. We also have people with smartphones everywhere, police and demonstrators at public meetings recording stuff, CCTV as mentioned before. Drone cameras are the coming thing.

A lot of that footage has already been used in evidence. The police bodycam is a minor extension of the principle. A genie has been let out of the bottle and society as a whole needs to think about whether it wants everything that happens in a public place to be recorded or not.

IMO public camera work probably does more good than harm. I don't agree with the idea of recording everything we do in private.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in de
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience






Nuremberg

I think it's a good idea. The benefits outweigh the costs to me. When I was a teacher in a public school (I teach in a private school now) I would have loved a camera and microphone in my class room. Would have solved so many issues for me, and I was confident that I always acted in a professional manner so I had no worries about it.

   
Made in ca
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





easysauce wrote:
people are already subject to CCTV recordings, and every electronic move, be in on computer, cell phone, or whatever, being recorded and stored should organizations like the NSA ever want to look at it. your 4th amendmant is not violated every time you walk into a place with CCTV (Which is every single store, ever, and a lot of public places as well, even in canada, its everywhere)

The difference is that those CCTV security cameras are not placed there by the state; they represent private interests and thus are not found in the public sphere. (the exception being in the UK, but that is exactly the kinda of Big Brother effect to which I'm referring)

EDIT: and for what it's worth, your argument of "your rights COULD be violated, so they SHOULD be violated" might be the worst argument I've ever heard. Hang your head in shame and feel bad about that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/10 16:44:52


 
   
Made in ca
Lieutenant Colonel






actually, yes, there are plenty of state placed cctv cameras everywhere....
red light cameras, traffic video cameras, and other state palced CCTV abounds in every major city now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 azazel the cat wrote:
easysauce wrote:
people are already subject to CCTV recordings, and every electronic move, be in on computer, cell phone, or whatever, being recorded and stored should organizations like the NSA ever want to look at it. your 4th amendmant is not violated every time you walk into a place with CCTV (Which is every single store, ever, and a lot of public places as well, even in canada, its everywhere)

The difference is that those CCTV security cameras are not placed there by the state; they represent private interests and thus are not found in the public sphere. (the exception being in the UK, but that is exactly the kinda of Big Brother effect to which I'm referring)

EDIT: and for what it's worth, your argument of "your rights COULD be violated, so they SHOULD be violated" might be the worst argument I've ever heard. Hang your head in shame and feel bad about that.


dont put words in my mouth, my argument is not that rights should be violated, so stop with it right there, you are just trolling.

and actually, yes, there are plenty of state placed cctv cameras everywhere....
red light cameras, and traffic video cameras abound here.

cops having cameras on their guns is less invasive then what we already have... and it only makes sense to look back, instead of it being a one way street... ESP since cop dash cams and gun cams would go a long way to PROTECTING peoples rights from being trampled because their word is over ruled by a cops.

the right to privacy, and protection from unreasonable search and seasure, is not violated when you happen to be filmed in a public place, especially when that film can be used to oh, I dont know,

PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS....

Go worry about the actual 4th amendment violations that obama and his NSA are up to,

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/11/11 05:50:02


 
   
Made in gb
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

Whilst in general i am not a huge fan of being recoreded on cctv everywhere i go, cop-cam is something i would support - especially if as mentioned above it is made especially hard to tamper with (though i would not look forward to the govenment bungling buying the system and computer system to run this ).

   
Made in us
Sniping Reverend Moira





Cincinnati, Ohio

Would be really, really interesting to see these in NYC with some of the recent issues regarding stop and frisk.

 
   
Made in gb
Major





The same applied to the public; once informed they were being filmed, even drunk or agitated people tended to become more polite, Farrar said. Those who lodged frivolous or bogus complaints about officers tended to retract them when shown video of the incidents. "It's like, 'Oh, I hadn't seen it that way.'"


Strange that this part of the article seems to be overlooked. I think people are unfairly assuming that the police automatically are ones at the fault whenever a complaint is made.

I’d argue that a good portion of complainants against the police are malicious in nature and are often made in order to help aid the defense of someone caught bang to rights. That they may no longer be able to get away with frivolous claims of brutality is bound to be a major factor in any drop in the number of complaints.

"And if we've learnt anything over the past 1000 mile retreat it's that Russian agriculture is in dire need of mechanisation!" 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Brisbane, Australia

On the Privacy issue, I tend to think that there shouldn't be a general expectation of privacy when talking to a police officer on his official duties*. If the police are involved, for whatever reason, it is a public matter, as they are representatives of the state and public, and what you say to them shouldn't be considered any more private than talking loudly in a park. That doesn't mean that any evidence or videos gathered by police should automatically be released to the public - there's no need for your domestic dispute or drunken slurring to turn up on Youtube - but rather that what is seen by and said to a police officer can be used if needed for a valid public purpose, such as evidence in a legal case or while investigating alleged complaints, for example.

There must, of course, be some limits to stop abuse by police of recording powers. I don't think police should be able to secretly record you with a body cam, just as they cannot secretly wiretap without due reason and a court order (well, that used to be the case...), so they should let it be known that they are there. A law that evidence gathered by body cams before informing people that they are police and are watching could not be admissible in court (unless the police were turning up to a crime in progress) would help in that regard. Another law that video evidence gathered cannot be released publicly except if there is a legitimate public interest in doing so (evidence in trials, identifying fugitive suspects or responding to public complaints about official conduct for example) that cannot be assuaged without public release, or where permission is given by those filmed to do so.

Those sorts of rules would be great in the interests of privacy, in my opinion, but even without them I think the benefits of Body Cams for the public and for the police far outweigh the potential drawbacks.


*and only on his official duties, if he's off duty, or talking with someone for non-official reasons, then an expectation of privacy might well apply.

Looking for a club in Brisbane, Australia? Come and enjoy a game and a beer at Pubhammer, our friendly club in a pub at the Junction pub in Annerley (opposite Ace Comics), Sunday nights from 6:30. All brisbanites welcome, don't wait, check out our Club Page on Facebook group for details or to organize a game. We play all sorts of board and war games, so hit us up if you're interested.


Pubhammer is Moving! Starting from the 25th of May we'll be gaming at The Junction pub (AKA The Muddy Farmer), opposite Ace Comics & Games in Annerley! Still Sunday nights from 6:30 in the Function room Come along and play Warmachine, 40k, boardgames or anything else! 
   
Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord







 Kilkrazy wrote:
Speaking as a Brit, my trust in the police has not been eroded by Plebgate.

Everyone knows the police are not squeaky clean knights in armour. Nor are politicians.

It's pretty obvious that the Tories are prepared to spend as much public money as it takes to get revenge for a very petty matter that happened months ago, and they are banging on this "public trust" drum to justify it.

Ironically, "Plebgate" was recorded on CCTV without sound, and neither the policemen nor the cyclist involved had cameras on them.



So the Police lied and Andrew Mitchell was made to resign. It wasn't petty at the time people were supporting the police for their abuse by arrogant "Tory Scum". They fabricated an event for no particular reason and I don't think getting the ones responsible out of the force should be considered "revenge".

   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Let's just complete the circle. Everyone must wear cameras all the time! It will deter terrorists.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 14:30:16


Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in jp
Dakka Veteran




Anime High School

This will be the world after Google Glass. No one will ever commit crimes because there will always be someone watching and you'll probably never take yours off either.

Enjoy anonymity while you can


 
   
Made in ca
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





easysauce wrote:actually, yes, there are plenty of state placed cctv cameras everywhere....
red light cameras, traffic video cameras, and other state palced CCTV abounds in every major city now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 azazel the cat wrote:
easysauce wrote:
people are already subject to CCTV recordings, and every electronic move, be in on computer, cell phone, or whatever, being recorded and stored should organizations like the NSA ever want to look at it. your 4th amendmant is not violated every time you walk into a place with CCTV (Which is every single store, ever, and a lot of public places as well, even in canada, its everywhere)

The difference is that those CCTV security cameras are not placed there by the state; they represent private interests and thus are not found in the public sphere. (the exception being in the UK, but that is exactly the kinda of Big Brother effect to which I'm referring)

EDIT: and for what it's worth, your argument of "your rights COULD be violated, so they SHOULD be violated" might be the worst argument I've ever heard. Hang your head in shame and feel bad about that.


dont put words in my mouth, my argument is not that rights should be violated, so stop with it right there, you are just trolling.

and actually, yes, there are plenty of state placed cctv cameras everywhere....
red light cameras, and traffic video cameras abound here.

cops having cameras on their guns is less invasive then what we already have... and it only makes sense to look back, instead of it being a one way street... ESP since cop dash cams and gun cams would go a long way to PROTECTING peoples rights from being trampled because their word is over ruled by a cops.

the right to privacy, and protection from unreasonable search and seasure, is not violated when you happen to be filmed in a public place, especially when that film can be used to oh, I dont know,

PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS....

Go worry about the actual 4th amendment violations that obama and his NSA are up to,

I'm not putting words in your mouth; I'm describing the framework of your argument. You are effectively saying that everyone should be resigned to having their rights to privacy violated by the state in situation X because your right to privacy may already be violated in situation Y. That is exactly what your argument is, as evidenced below:
easysauce wrote:people are already subject to CCTV recordings, and every electronic move, be in on computer, cell phone, or whatever, being recorded and stored should organizations like the NSA ever want to look at it.

The only other explanation for your statement, other than the aforementioned inference, is that you were simply saying a meaningless phrase for the sake of filling space, akin to "some dogs are big; some dogs are not as big".

Red light cameras do not always record you; they are automated to take a photo when its sensor is tripped, which can only happen if a law is being broken (running the red light). And the article is not about the police having cameras mounted on their duty firearms, it is about the police having mounted cameras on them at all times. I sincerely hope you understand the difference:

When a peace officer draws his duty firearm, an incident is already under way such that the peace officer believes there to be a situation entailing the potential for grievous bodily harm or death to himself or another person. This would be the equivalent of running a red light and a camera snapping a picture, insofar as the requirement to meet a specific criteria in order to perform an action goes.

However, an police officer with a GoPro mounted on his shoulder that is always turned on is the equivalent of a police officer with an automated photo radar camera on the side of the road, monitoring everyone, irrespective of the officer having reason to suspect a person is breaking the law (which the supreme court ruled to be in violation of the Charter right to unreasonable search).

Now, as I said well before you decided to make this a binary argument, I see pros and cons to the idea. I agree that in many cases the video evidence would help protect your rights; the difficulty I have with it is that it becomes a question of exactly how far it can go (again, I refer to the UK and its CCTV cameras everywhere).

EDIT: altered language; the post read as being kinda hostile, which wasn't the intent.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 23:06:12


 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




WA

 azazel the cat wrote:
Now, as I said well before you decided to make this a binary argument, I see pros and cons to the idea. I agree that in many cases the video evidence would help protect your rights; the difficulty I have with it is that it becomes a question of exactly how far it can go (again, I refer to the UK and its CCTV cameras everywhere).


At leas this time they're doing something useful for the masses

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Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

I think this is a good idea .. but, wouldn't a cop need to tell the person they are being videotaped? kind of like how you can't just record a phone conversation without telling someone?

 
   
Made in ca
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





Necros wrote:I think this is a good idea .. but, wouldn't a cop need to tell the person they are being videotaped? kind of like how you can't just record a phone conversation without telling someone?

Which becomes particularly difficult when that cop happens to be looking at a busy sidewalk where hundreds of people may be recorded.

Generally speaking, I love the idea of peace officers having GoPros available to them, however it does create some logistical problems. Personally, I think (not too carefully yet, mind you) that cops with GoPros might work well if the cameras are only turned on upon arriving at the site of a response call.

On the surface, that seems like it strikes a solid balance between the desire to have the cops using the cameras, while still respecting the privacy of passersby in public spaces.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 23:03:46


 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 azazel the cat wrote:
Necros wrote:I think this is a good idea .. but, wouldn't a cop need to tell the person they are being videotaped? kind of like how you can't just record a phone conversation without telling someone?

Which becomes particularly difficult when that cop happens to be looking at a busy sidewalk where hundreds of people may be recorded.

Generally speaking, I love the idea of peace officers having GoPros available to them, however it does create some logistical problems. Personally, I think (not too carefully yet, mind you) that cops with GoPros might work well if the cameras are only turned on upon arriving at the site of a response call.

On the surface, that seems like it strikes a solid balance between the desire to have the cops using the cameras, while still respecting the privacy of passersby in public spaces.


For what it's worth, my understanding is that in the same way that you do not have to send out consent waivers to everyone who was in a crowd when you were filming home movies on vacation at a busy tourist destination the police only have to make you aware that you are being recorded if they are directly interacting with you since the video can and most likely will be used as evidence against you in that case.
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Necros wrote:
I think this is a good idea .. but, wouldn't a cop need to tell the person they are being videotaped? kind of like how you can't just record a phone conversation without telling someone?


You have no reasonable expectation of privacy if you are out in public and anyone may photograph you as they like, all things being equal.

Recording phone conversations is a different situation because you are considered to have a reasonable expectation of privacy.


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





I think the cameras are great. They've been used in multiple cases here in Australia, most times substantiating the officer's statement, but a few times supporting the defendant's case and leading to not guilty verdicts. But in all those cases the main point is that the cameras helped the court come to the real truth of the matter.

I also don't think there's really much of an issue with the loss of privacy from a cop having a camera. I mean, if you're being viewed by a police officer, you're already in a position where you have no privacy. If you're interacting with a policeman, then you're either in public, or the cop has reasonable grounds, or a warrant... he has a right to be there interacting with you, and if he doesn't then you've still got all the same legal protections whether he has a camera or not.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/13 03:02:12


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Sniping Reverend Moira





Cincinnati, Ohio

 sebster wrote:
I think the cameras are great. They've been used in multiple cases here in Australia, most times substantiating the officer's statement, but a few times supporting the defendant's case and leading to not guilty verdicts. But in all those cases the main point is that the cameras helped the court come to the real truth of the matter.

I also don't think there's really much of an issue with the loss of privacy from a cop having a camera. I mean, if you're being viewed by a police officer, you're already in a position where you have no privacy. If you're interacting with a policeman, then you're either in public, or the cop has reasonable grounds, or a warrant... he has a right to be there interacting with you, and if he doesn't then you've still got all the same legal protections whether he has a camera or not.


But but. What about all the added cost!

 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 cincydooley wrote:


But but. What about all the added cost!


Pleeeease. The government loves spending money

   
 
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