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 edbradders wrote:

Also, the legion tactical support squad only has 9 special weapons at full strength-the sergeant does not have a flamer to start with and can't take a different special weapon. He can have a combi-weapon though.

I'll check when I get home, but I think this is incorrect.

I remember it saying "All members of the squad" can upgrade to a special weapon instead of a flamer, and "Alternatively, the Squad Sergeant can exchange his flamer for..."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 edbradders wrote:

I have a correction to add though. I noticed under the "Apothecarian detachment" you say they can take a power weapon and you suggest a maul. Unfortunately, they may only take a sword as per the rules (unless the errata has been updated and I haven't noticed).

Pretty sure this is incorrect, as well, and that it says Power Weapon...maybe you have an old copy??

Might be in the FAQ. I am 100% positive that just like the heavy support squad, it is all members of the squad, including the sgt.

 jasper76 wrote:

 edbradders wrote:

Also, the legion tactical support squad only has 9 special weapons at full strength-the sergeant does not have a flamer to start with and can't take a different special weapon. He can have a combi-weapon though.

I'll check when I get home, but I think this is incorrect.

I remember it saying "All members of the squad" can upgrade to a special weapon instead of a flamer, and "Alternatively, the Squad Sergeant can exchange his flamer for..."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 edbradders wrote:

I have a correction to add though. I noticed under the "Apothecarian detachment" you say they can take a power weapon and you suggest a maul. Unfortunately, they may only take a sword as per the rules (unless the errata has been updated and I haven't noticed).

Pretty sure this is incorrect, as well, and that it says Power Weapon...maybe you have an old copy??

I guess it could be possible that I have an old copy but it definitely says that in the book I have (I'm looking at it right now).

Fair enough, I could be wrong, as well. I do remember their being some kind of difference between searges for Tactical Support Squads and Heavy Support Squads, and maybe that's what it was. I'll check my book when I get home to see if we have any differences. I know there were some changes between HH Book 1 and the Redbook...like sergeant's weren't originally listed as Characters, for example.

Col. Dash wrote:
Might be in the FAQ. I am 100% positive that just like the heavy support squad, it is all members of the squad, including the sgt.

The FAQ mentions the recon squad and says it includes all models including the sergeant but does not mention the support squad.

OK, so there are some differences between my redbook Crusade Army List and the HH 1 Crusade Army List as pertains to Tac Support Squads.
Book 1 of the Horus Heresy lists Tac Support Squads exactly as you have described. The rules have since been updated (when, I don't know, but the Redbook has different rules for Tac Support squads than HH1)

1. There is no separation between base wargear listings for a Legion Space Marine and a Legion Seargeant....they both have flamers.

2. All of the models in the squad (including the sergeant) can upgrade to a special weapon choice. Again, no differentiation between a Legion Space Marine and a Legion Sergeant.

3. As discussed earlier, HH1 does not list Legion Sergeants as Charachters, but they are listed as Characters in the red Crusade Army List book.

4. In the redbook, Sergeants have the option to upgrade to a Heavy Chainsword.

5. In the redbook, Sergeants do not come equipped by default with a CCW.

You were right about Apothecaries...they can only upgrade to a Power Sword (vs." Power Weapon").

 jasper76 wrote:
OK, so there are some differences between my redbook Crusade Army List and the HH 1 Crusade Army List as pertains to Tac Support Squads.
Book 1 of the Horus Heresy lists Tac Support Squads exactly as you have described. The rules have since been updated (when, I don't know, but the Redbook has different rules for Tac Support squads than HH1)

1. There is no separation between base wargear listings for a Legion Space Marine and a Legion Seargeant....they both have flamers.

2. All of the models in the squad (including the sergeant) can upgrade to a special weapon choice. Again, no differentiation between a Legion Space Marine and a Legion Sergeant.

3. As discussed earlier, HH1 does not list Legion Sergeants as Charachters, but they are listed as Characters in the red Crusade Army List book.

4. In the redbook, Sergeants have the option to upgrade to a Heavy Chainsword.

5. In the redbook, Sergeants do not come equipped by default with a CCW.

You were right about Apothecaries...they can only upgrade to a Power Sword (vs." Power Weapon").

Fair enough. I don't have the red books yet (I only own books 1, 2, and 3). I assume the red ones would take priority over the other books?

It is also worth noting that 'power weapon' in the Legion lists excludes the power lance as mentioned in the wargear section, and so far to my knowledge only Palatine Blades are able to take power lances, which is mentioned as a separate option to power weapons. I expect White Scars will also have access to power lances.

 edbradders wrote:

Fair enough. I don't have the red books yet (I only own books 1, 2, and 3). I assume the red ones would take priority over the other books?

I guess so??? I don't really know the answer to that.

I certainly wouldn't expect my buddies to adjust an army they built using HH1 to a "redbook legal" army or anything like that if their army wasn't completely compliant with the redbook updates. Hell, my army is so illegal, they'd just laugh in my face if I even brought it up.

 jasper76 wrote:

 edbradders wrote:

Fair enough. I don't have the red books yet (I only own books 1, 2, and 3). I assume the red ones would take priority over the other books?

I guess so??? I don't really know the answer to that.

I certainly wouldn't expect my buddies to adjust an army they built using HH1 to a "redbook legal" army or anything like that if their army wasn't completely compliant with the redbook updates. Hell, my army is so illegal, they'd just laugh in my face if I even brought it up.

The red books made several "stealth" updates to the lists. Offhand, I can't think of anything that was actually taken away, but quite a few things were added in, like Tactical Support Squad Sergeants also getting the special weapons, Palatine Blades being able to go up to a 10 man squad, and so on. So, not using the red books actually means you're losing options rather than gaining.

The support squad thing is you can give the sergeant the combo weapon so you can 'lose points'.

You can take 5 plasma guns for 175, or 4 and a combi for 160.
Can help if you need the points.

I trade in the flamer for a bolter + AS for plasma squads (with Apothecary for some FNP), keep the sarge with a flamer in melta squads, and give the sarge a combi-melta or maybe combi-plasma in flamer squads.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 edbradders wrote:

Fair enough. I don't have the red books yet (I only own books 1, 2, and 3). I assume the red ones would take priority over the other books?

I guess so??? I don't really know the answer to that.

I certainly wouldn't expect my buddies to adjust an army they built using HH1 to a "redbook legal" army or anything like that if their army wasn't completely compliant with the redbook updates. Hell, my army is so illegal, they'd just laugh in my face if I even brought it up.

The red books made several "stealth" updates to the lists. Offhand, I can't think of anything that was actually taken away, but quite a few things were added in, like Tactical Support Squad Sergeants also getting the special weapons, Palatine Blades being able to go up to a 10 man squad, and so on. So, not using the red books actually means you're losing options rather than gaining.

Jetbikes going to a 2+ save was one of them, IIRC. I'm going to be trying a full unit with a Primus Medicae attached. I think it'll be interesting against some stuff, but obviously vulnerable to the wrong pie plate.

Ugh, I have nine scimitar jetbikes for my EC, and when I fielded all nine in a squad, they formed a rather large and unwieldy unit due to the massive footprint nine of those flight bases create. A cool looking unit, to be sure, but, ye gods, the table space they take up...