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Before I moved up north GW Maidstone had something similar, if you spent a certain amount in store you got little coupons that gave you the right to spend on various things, occasionally in rafffles in the store and stuff but also could be used to pay for games at their local gaming club. It didnt limit the gaming in the store via coupons but encouraged people who bought stuff in store to attend the club.

 Melcavuk wrote:
Before I moved up north GW Maidstone had something similar, if you spent a certain amount in store you got little coupons that gave you the right to spend on various things, occasionally in rafffles in the store and stuff but also could be used to pay for games at their local gaming club. It didnt limit the gaming in the store via coupons but encouraged people who bought stuff in store to attend the club.

This.

Tickets let you participate in raffle, challenge Store Manager etc... No one will ask you to pay to play.

There was a recent change in management (it is a new Managers first week in GW Croydon) and he is just updating table booking schedule. That's it IMO.

Just check their Facebook page.

Cheers.

 Kroothawk wrote:
So there are GW stores left that allow in store gaming?

Are there any that don't?

I think we had one comment re Derby not allowing games, but then somebody popped up and said they'd had a game there recently. I know you keep a close eye on this, I thought you'd be more abreast of the news, Kroot!

I'm just shocked that none of the UK-based Dakkaites seem to have a working telephone and are therefore unable to confirm or deny something simple like this.

I'm more shocked that people actually choose to game in GW stores.

I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but most of the GW stores I have been into here in the UK are shoebox sized and with tiny tables. Now, my gaming room at home is hardly massive but I can at least fit a 6x4 board in it. My local GW has two small 2x3 or thereabouts boards as well as the obligatory hordes of screaming pre-teens and obnoxious adults crammed into a minuscule store front. Not my idea of gaming nirvana.

 filbert wrote:
I... the obligatory hordes of screaming pre-teens and obnoxious adults c

Ah, Hell is other gamers. Very Jean-Paul Sartre.

I imagine the locations are more about what kind of storefronts you can get for minimal rent than simply choosing the smallest available. When my local GW moved from the shopping mall in the next suburb over to just far enough away to be too far to bother with (I used to get my WDs there, and occasional paints) they did the whole downgrade from multiple staff to 1-man band manager, but the store size actually increased - looked like about double the space the one time I went there...

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

 filbert wrote:
I... the obligatory hordes of screaming pre-teens and obnoxious adults c

Ah, Hell is other gamers. Very Jean-Paul Sartre.

Well, there is a kernel of truth there. I have yet to go into a GW store and not wanted to be in and out with my purchases inside of 5 minutes. I can't say whether the same holds true for all gaming stores since I haven't been into an indie store in the UK.

 filbert wrote:
I can't say whether the same holds true for all gaming stores since I haven't been into an indie store in the UK.

I have been to a few and they are much more like normal shops, hardly any screaming brats and a much more restrained atmosphere.

This again...

I don't say this out of exasperation as I believe there was a thread on this earlier this year with someone else having a similar encounter, in that they received tokens to use on things like using the painting table or gaming.

Sooo.... I suspect there is a kernel of truth to this, but whomever told the OP may have their wires crossed.

 Grimtuff wrote:
... in that they received tokens to use on things like using the painting table or gaming.

But can customers use the painting table and game in the store if they don't have one of these tokens?

Because if they do, then those tokens are basically worthless;
If they don't then GW as just instated pay-to-play (or to paint) in their stores;

In wither case: on

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Oh sure, it's dumb when GW does it but when independents charge for table space it's just business sense...

It's dumb when GW does it because GW stores are not individual businesses, they're a branch of the company dedicated to providing easy local sales and a place to play (and therefore encouraging people to buy the game). It makes no sense for GW to charge for table space because no matter who you buy GW products from GW is still making a profit. It's potentially good business sense for an independent store to charge for tables because they need income to that store specifically if they want to survive, and they can potentially provide a much better gaming experience that justifies charging for table space.

The GW shop in question might have a community where there are people who are very vocal about how they buy only from online stores while playing at the shop.

So what? If you buy online you still give your money to GW. Don't make the same idiotic mistake that GW does and think that each individual retail store is its own business that needs to do everything it can to keep sales in that one store.

Precisely this. The only rational purpose for GW stores to exist, even at a loss, is to have a high street presence and serve as a marketing tool. It would be like getting charged 25 cents for a sample at the grocery store.

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
So there are GW stores left that allow in store gaming?

Are there any that don't?

The GW store in Vernon Hills had 4 tables full of terrain for people to play on. Also a painting area. No chicks when I was there, though.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Oh sure, it's dumb when GW does it but when independents charge for table space it's just business sense...

It's dumb when GW does it because GW stores are not individual businesses, they're a branch of the company dedicated to providing easy local sales and a place to play (and therefore encouraging people to buy the game). It makes no sense for GW to charge for table space because no matter who you buy GW products from GW is still making a profit. It's potentially good business sense for an independent store to charge for tables because they need income to that store specifically if they want to survive, and they can potentially provide a much better gaming experience that justifies charging for table space.

The GW shop in question might have a community where there are people who are very vocal about how they buy only from online stores while playing at the shop.

So what? If you buy online you still give your money to GW. Don't make the same idiotic mistake that GW does and think that each individual retail store is its own business that needs to do everything it can to keep sales in that one store.

Each individual retail store is not its own business, but the sales figures (and potentially the behavior of the community) for a GW shop will drive how the employees are going to manage the shop within the guidelines set by GW corporate.

Because the employees are working on what amounts to a modified commission paycheck, their pay and how much leeway they are given to run their shop is based upon the sales figures of the shop.

And as a bit of a fun fact?
Purchases made in the store(including gift cards) and Direct only purchases made in the store for pick-up in the store count towards the store sales figures, but orders made via the GW website at home for pick up at the store do not count.

I wonder if GW have a regional system for dividing online orders in the UK. For example, depending on your postcode, the amount of money you spend online is attributed to a certain region. If they have a store in that region it gets a bit of the credit, deserved or otherwise. This is how it works in the Department Store i work in.

 kronk wrote:

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
So there are GW stores left that allow in store gaming?

Are there any that don't?

The GW store in Vernon Hills had 4 tables full of terrain for people to play on. Also a painting area. No chicks when I was there, though.

They left before you arrived and came back only to find you had gone, or so the tragic tale goes...

weeble1000 wrote:

Precisely this. The only rational purpose for GW stores to exist, even at a loss, is to have a high street presence and serve as a marketing tool. It would be like getting charged 25 cents for a sample at the grocery store.

There are limits as to how many "free samples" you can get at the grocery store, are there not?

I do agree that GW stores should be serving as more of a marketing tool but I don't think that means they should not be allowed to tie gaming space to purchases made in store. I do not think having something where you spend 15GBP(which is around 25 USD) at the shop for a voucher or some kind of token or whatever that lets you book up a table is unfair or excessive.

If it's not clear at this point, I popped in after reading this, and it sort of isn't true. Apparently it was going to be the case, but now it's just a simple give them a call to book/book a table in store system, with no vouchers/spending necessary.

Ty Verses.


Everyone can blame Japan for the 1 man stores. They were initially popular over there and made a ton of money, so they decided to try them everywhere.....

OK all - Croydon is my local store - I think the OP has this confused with Heroes and Legends - our local non GW gaming store - which is AWESOME btw.
They've just started charging monies. 2.50 for a three hour slot per person, which aint bad really. Unlike GW you can use bathrooms, make tea and eat in their and generally have 3-5 big tables to choose from.
It has lost a few people to this but still good value for my 2 cents.. or is that pennies?

General Hobbs wrote:


Ty Verses.


Everyone can blame Japan for the 1 man stores. They were initially popular over there and made a ton of money, so they decided to try them everywhere.....

I blame Japan for the worst hang-over ever. Stupid saki... That gak sneaks up on you.

ellis_esquire wrote:
OK all - Croydon is my local store - I think the OP has this confused with Heroes and Legends - our local non GW gaming store - which is AWESOME btw.
They've just started charging monies. 2.50 for a three hour slot per person, which aint bad really. Unlike GW you can use bathrooms, make tea and eat in their and generally have 3-5 big tables to choose from.
It has lost a few people to this but still good value for my 2 cents.. or is that pennies?

That sounds like a sweet deal, anybody turning that down seems to have reacted a little harshly. Cheers for the clarification.

 Medium of Death wrote:

ellis_esquire wrote:
OK all - Croydon is my local store - I think the OP has this confused with Heroes and Legends - our local non GW gaming store - which is AWESOME btw.
They've just started charging monies. 2.50 for a three hour slot per person, which aint bad really. Unlike GW you can use bathrooms, make tea and eat in their and generally have 3-5 big tables to choose from.
It has lost a few people to this but still good value for my 2 cents.. or is that pennies?

That sounds like a sweet deal, anybody turning that down seems to have reacted a little harshly. Cheers for the clarification.

It has probably lost the few people the owner explicitly intended to lose with such a policy, usually non-customers monopolizing space from real customers. I consider pay to play perfectly reasonable.

But of course, when a FLGS does it, it is reasonable, and when GW does it, it is a sign of the Apocalypse and resulting in the murder of babies.

nkelsch wrote:


But of course, when a FLGS does it, it is reasonable, and when GW does it, it is a sign of the Apocalypse and resulting in the murder of babies.

Do we need to repeat what Peregrine posted? Did you even read it?

nkelsch wrote:

It has probably lost the few people the owner explicitly intended to lose with such a policy, usually non-customers monopolizing space from real customers. I consider pay to play perfectly reasonable.

True dat!

They probably also had neck-beards, smelled bad, and would follow customer around the store giving free advice like "You're buying terminators? They suck and you're a bad player!"

nkelsch wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:

ellis_esquire wrote:
OK all - Croydon is my local store - I think the OP has this confused with Heroes and Legends - our local non GW gaming store - which is AWESOME btw.
They've just started charging monies. 2.50 for a three hour slot per person, which aint bad really. Unlike GW you can use bathrooms, make tea and eat in their and generally have 3-5 big tables to choose from.
It has lost a few people to this but still good value for my 2 cents.. or is that pennies?

That sounds like a sweet deal, anybody turning that down seems to have reacted a little harshly. Cheers for the clarification.

It has probably lost the few people the owner explicitly intended to lose with such a policy, usually non-customers monopolizing space from real customers. I consider pay to play perfectly reasonable.

But of course, when a FLGS does it, it is reasonable, and when GW does it, it is a sign of the Apocalypse and resulting in the murder of babies.

All that the FLGSs that have tried it around here managed, was to loose customers and subsequently go bankrupt, so no, I don't think that it is reasonable when an FLGS does it as well.

Table space in a store should be considered as advertisement for their products and as community building "helpers". If you have a community of loyal people that plays at your store, chances are that they will also buy at your store. Sure, you'll always have the 1 or 2 free loaders that only buy online and basically use the tables "for free", but it makes much more business sense to endure these 1 or 2 people than to risk alienating all your other customers by charging them a fee to use the store tables.

 Grimtuff wrote:

nkelsch wrote:


But of course, when a FLGS does it, it is reasonable, and when GW does it, it is a sign of the Apocalypse and resulting in the murder of babies.

Do we need to repeat what Peregrine posted? Did you even read it?

I read it and I don't agree with it. It's predicated upon the notion that good GW employees are interchangeable.

We see complaints when someone's local GW undergoes a change of management and they've lost their "favorite manager ever", but then it comes out that they liked the manager because the manager was essentially a doormat for the community.

PhantomViper wrote:

All that the FLGSs that have tried it around here managed, was to loose customers and subsequently go bankrupt, so no, I don't think that it is reasonable when an FLGS does it as well.

Table space in a store should be considered as advertisement for their products and as community building "helpers". If you have a community of loyal people that plays at your store, chances are that they will also buy at your store. Sure, you'll always have the 1 or 2 free loaders that only buy online and basically use the tables "for free", but it makes much more business sense to endure these 1 or 2 people than to risk alienating all your other customers by charging them a fee to use the store tables.

I have seen the opposite, I have seen loudmouth freeloaders drive entire customer bases away, and the result is usually a removal of open gaming 100% from the store and a total transition to Magic or YuGiOh. If you attempt to tolerate the freeloaders and unpleasant people who buy nothing in your store and often campaign for online sales vs your store, then having them around is a drain on your store. if they come for the 'free gaming' then 'free gaming' is a negative now. Sometimes it is fine to purge non-customers who are ruining your establishment.

Sadly it usually results in gaming being removed or banished to 'tuesday night' because one or two freeloading loudmouths have to ruin it for all. If squeezing a small amount of money out of those guys makes them evaporate, then it is worth every penny. Considering the number of freeloaders on Dakka who don't pay where they play but then in turn demand free gaming... I believe more and more in this policy with every passing day.

And I have seen Peregrin's comment, I disagree with its premise. In stores where tablespace is a premium, every peak time I have been to a GW, the tables are PACKED, and there are people waiting to use them. I see nothing wrong with allowing actual customers who actually spend money to be prioritized for space. My local store does so via a campaign system and house rules which allow you to make a 'unit card' when you buy a set of models and that unit gets bonus rules when you assemble and then again when you paint it. It is a 'I bought it here in store' reward. If you don't have at least one unit like this for the campaign period, you don't get to use the tables when other people are there. Basically paying customers play first. It works, the people who are there are happy, it drives sales. Anyone who doesn't like it is already in the parking lot pounding sand and probably posting false rumors on online boards.

Working as intended.

I'm not sure whether the OP's story is truthful or not, but I'd actually be somewhat in favour of this voucher system.

GW locations are stores after all and not clubs where you can just go hang out whenever you are bored. I often see people enter my local GW and just start playing games then hang around for a few hours. Now you might think this is perfectly fine and helps keep the community strong - fair enough.

However, there are a few regulars that are in the store all the time and I mean almost every day for 3+ hours and I'm sure they are not buying each day. It clutters up the store and takes gaming space away from people (like myself) who come in to purchase something and then grab a quick game or two. I can only imagine the impact on a smaller locations with only 2-3 gaming tables.

I'm not saying you should always buy something just to participate in the hobby, but there are freeloaders out there who abuse the honour system of supporting your store.

nkelsch wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

All that the FLGSs that have tried it around here managed, was to loose customers and subsequently go bankrupt, so no, I don't think that it is reasonable when an FLGS does it as well.

Table space in a store should be considered as advertisement for their products and as community building "helpers". If you have a community of loyal people that plays at your store, chances are that they will also buy at your store. Sure, you'll always have the 1 or 2 free loaders that only buy online and basically use the tables "for free", but it makes much more business sense to endure these 1 or 2 people than to risk alienating all your other customers by charging them a fee to use the store tables.

I have seen the opposite, I have seen loudmouth freeloaders drive entire customer bases away, and the result is usually a removal of open gaming 100% from the store and a total transition to Magic or YuGiOh. If you attempt to tolerate the freeloaders and unpleasant people who buy nothing in your store and often campaign for online sales vs your store, then having them around is a drain on your store. if they come for the 'free gaming' then 'free gaming' is a negative now. Sometimes it is fine to purge non-customers who are ruining your establishment.

Sadly it usually results in gaming being removed or banished to 'tuesday night' because one or two freeloading loudmouths have to ruin it for all. If squeezing a small amount of money out of those guys makes them evaporate, then it is worth every penny. Considering the number of freeloaders on Dakka who don't pay where they play but then in turn demand free gaming... I believe more and more in this policy with every passing day.

You do realise that there are other options between "accept everything from everyone that enters your store regardless if they spend any money in there or not" and "start charging everyone for playing", right?

If someone is as disruptive and harmful as you state, then the store manager can simply bar that person from entering the store. There, problem solved without endangering the store's relationship with the rest of its paying customers.

It is indeed fine and even desirable to purge non-customers who create a negative atmosphere, but never at the expense of your real customers and that is exactly what these blanket measures do.

PhantomViper wrote:


You do realise that there are other options between "accept everything from everyone that enters your store regardless if they spend any money in there or not" and "start charging everyone for playing", right?

If someone is as disruptive and harmful as you state, then the store manager can simply bar that person from entering the store. There, problem solved without endangering the store's relationship with the rest of its paying customers.

It is indeed fine and even desirable to purge non-customers who create a negative atmosphere, but never at the expense of your real customers and that is exactly what these blanket measures do.

The other options often are: "Stop wargaming open play, have Magic the Gathering non-stop all weekend. Make cheap deadbeat wargamers play on 'club night'"

And 'banning' people is a huge logistical pain in the ass. It is much better to simply have policies which make those people either get with the program or get out.

Pandering to non-customers is not the way to run a business. Usually real customers understand and don't mind supporting the store. 'Store credit to play' is somewhat common and doesn't hurt anyone who already pays to play. You can't please all of the people all of the time. Every policy will lose customers, it is up to a store owner to decide if the real customers LOST via pay to play outweigh the added customers of people happy to Pay to Play and the environment it builds as pay to play can justify weekend primetime opposed to being banished by Magic the gathering. If such a policy increases customers, then so be it. You can't make a blanket statement that it always results in a negative as many stores have proven it to be false.

You have to know your customer base and what works for you.