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So, apparently the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is collecting people's DNA. According to the news article, it's for research on the number of drunk or impaired drivers but what happened in North Texas certainly seems a little sinister.
Scott Gordon wrote:North Texas Drivers Stopped at Roadblock Asked for Saliva, Blood
Fort Worth police apologize for its role in federal survey
Some drivers along a busy Fort Worth street on Friday were stopped at a police roadblock and directed into a parking lot, where they were asked by federal contractors for samples of their breath, saliva and even blood.
It was part of a government research study aimed at determining the number of drunken or drug-impaired drivers.
"It just doesn't seem right that you can be forced off the road when you're not doing anything wrong," said Kim Cope, who said she was on her lunch break when she was forced to pull over at the roadblock on Beach Street in North Fort Worth.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which is spending $7.9 million on the survey over three years, said participation was "100 percent voluntary" and anonymous.
But Cope said it didn't feel voluntary to her -- despite signs saying it was.
"I gestured to the guy in front that I just wanted to go straight, but he wouldn't let me and forced me into a parking spot," she said.
Once parked, she couldn't believe what she was asked next.
"They were asking for cheek swabs," she said. "They would give $10 for that. Also, if you let them take your blood, they would pay you $50 for that."
At the very least, she said, they wanted to test her breath for alcohol.
She said she felt trapped.
"I finally did the Breathalyzer test just because I thought that would be the easiest way to leave," she said, adding she received no money.
Fort Worth police earlier said they could not immediately find any record of officer involvement but police spokesman Sgt. Kelly Peel said Tuesday that the department's Traffic Division coordinated with the NHTSA on the use of off-duty officers after the agency asked for help with the survey.
"We are reviewing the actions of all police personnel involved to ensure that FWPD policies and procedures were followed," he said. "We apologize if any of our drivers and citizens were offended or inconvenienced by the NHTSA National Roadside Survey."
NBC DFW confirmed that the survey was done by a government contractor, the Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation, which is based in Calverton, Md.
A company spokeswoman referred questions to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
An agency spokeswoman sent an email confirming the government is conducting the surveys in 30 cities across the country in an effort to reduce impaired-driving accidents.
She did not respond to another email from NBC DFW asking specific questions about the program..
But a Fort Worth attorney who is an expert in civil liberties law questioned whether such stops are constitutional.
"You can't just be pulled over randomly or for no reason," said attorney Frank Colosi.
He also noted the fine print on a form given to drivers informs them their breath was tested by "passive alcohol sensor readings before the consent process has been completed."
"They're essentially lying to you when they say it's completely voluntary, because they're testing you at that moment," Colosi said.
He also questioned the results of the "voluntary" survey -- speculating that drivers who had been drinking or using drugs would be more inclined to simply decline to participate.
Cope said she is troubled by what happened.
"It just doesn't seem right that they should be able to do any of it," she said. "If it's voluntary, it's voluntary, and none of it felt voluntary."
Asked Tuesday if she accepted the police department's apology, Cope said she would wait to see what the review showed.
"They need to make sure this doesn't happen again," she said.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/20 13:31:34
feeder wrote: Frazz's mind is like a wiener dog in a rabbit warren. Dark, twisting tunnels, and full of the certainty that just around the next bend will be the quarry he seeks.
They have been doing this survey and collecting samples for decades. The last survey, complete with saliva and blood, was done in 2007. Nobody said anything about it then, but it's an issue now because Obama.
Also, thread title is false and misleading since samples are tested for drugs and alcohol and not DNA.
d-usa wrote: They have been doing this survey and collecting samples for decades. The last survey, complete with saliva and blood, was done in 2007. Nobody said anything about it then, but it's an issue now because Obama.
Riiiiiiiight.
Or maybe its an issue now because it's happening now and no one knew about it before, and it's a gross violation of a person's civil liberties.
This seems weird. I now say, with a straight face, that I don't give a gak which president is in office, because that appears to be totally unrelated to what we're discussing.
Still, "voluntarily" taking breath tests seems... strange at best, unconstitutional at worst.
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums.
kronk wrote: *Starts practicing "DNA extraction" in case I get pulled over*
You know that if they were after DNA all they would need is a check swab right? Right?
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
d-usa wrote: Also, thread title is false and misleading since samples are tested for drugs and alcohol and not DNA.
You hope.
Unless you have a shred of proof that DNA is being analyzed the title is false and misleading.
Still, are you okay with being pulled over by the cops and directed into the parking lot and subjected to a survey?
Considering it is voluntary nobody is subjected to anything. You would be randomly selected to pull over to see if you wanted to participate in the survey, but you are free to decline. From the methodology of the 2007 survey:
NHTSA wrote:Drivers were then randomly selected from
the traffic passing the survey site.
...
The basic survey procedure involved the use of
law enforcement officers to direct traffic at the survey
sites, but not otherwise to interact in any way with the
survey subjects. Trained data collectors solicited
participation of the drivers in the survey
(offering incentives for participation). Participation was voluntary
and anonymous.
The survey procedure involved a brief explanation of
the purpose of the survey, a passive alcohol reading,
a breath alcohol test, a brief set of demographic questions, drinking and driving behavior, oral fluid collection,
Alcohol Use Disorder (AUD) questions, drug use
questions, and blood sample collection.
d-usa wrote: They have been doing this survey and collecting samples for decades. The last survey, complete with saliva and blood, was done in 2007. Nobody said anything about it then, but it's an issue now because Obama.
Riiiiiiiight.
Or maybe its an issue now because it's happening now and no one knew about it before,
The survey has been going since 1973. It was also conducted in 1986, 1996, and 2007.
The '73, '86 and '96 surveys all included breathalyzer tests. The 2007 survey was the first time saliva and blood samples were also collected.
In 2007 survey included almost 11,000 drivers that entered the survey sites, 9,413 drivers that did the breathalyzer, 7,719 drivers that gave saliva samples, and 3,276
that gave blood samples.
So the only way that "nobody knew about it before" would have been if GWB had his jackbooted government thugs ensure complete silence from these 11,000 people, Al Gore shut down the internet on any mention of this, and it would have relied on the NHTSA to maintain complete radio silence on these surveys.
But of course the 11,000 drivers were free to report on this, people were able to post their conspiracy theories online, and the NHTSA published the results of every National Roadside Survey to date.
That's how I found out all these details. Because all this information is on the INTERNET. It is there RIGHT NOW. So if people don't know about this it is because they didn't care in 2007 or because they are too lazy to actually do any kind of research to see if this is a real thing that has been happening for decades and just go "Thanks, Obama".
and it's a gross violation of a person's civil liberties.
Nope.
It's a sample collection that relies on voluntary participation and collects no identifying information.
But maybe you also scream "theft theft, this person is robbing me" somebody solicits a donation from you.
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
Using police to pull people off the road is the first wrong move. Police should not be involved in any way, nor should people be forced off the road to take part.
SilverMK2 wrote: Using police to pull people off the road is the first wrong move. Police should not be involved in any way, nor should people be forced off the road to take part.
Yeah, this is a huge problem to me. Plenty of people are non-confrotnational enough with figures of authority that they're going to comply regardless, even if they dont "need" to.
SilverMK2 wrote: Using police to pull people off the road is the first wrong move. Police should not be involved in any way, nor should people be forced off the road to take part.
From the description that D-Usa posted of how the NHTSA ran this, it's not unreasonable. They were "randomly selecting drivers"--not just having a roadblock where everyone would be involved.
The point of the survey is to get an idea as to if people are driving drunk or while under the influence of drugs. If you did a roadblock or checkpoint and word got out, then you would have the people you are looking for avoiding the activity you are trying to catch them in the process of.
SilverMK2 wrote: Using police to pull people off the road is the first wrong move. Police should not be involved in any way, nor should people be forced off the road to take part.
From the description that D-Usa posted of how the NHTSA ran this, it's not unreasonable. They were "randomly selecting drivers"--not just having a roadblock where everyone would be involved.
The point of the survey is to get an idea as to if people are driving drunk or while under the influence of drugs. If you did a roadblock or checkpoint and word got out, then you would have the people you are looking for avoiding the activity you are trying to catch them in the process of.
SilverMK2 wrote: Using police to pull people off the road is the first wrong move. Police should not be involved in any way, nor should people be forced off the road to take part.
From the description that D-Usa posted of how the NHTSA ran this, it's not unreasonable. They were "randomly selecting drivers"--not just having a roadblock where everyone would be involved.
The point of the survey is to get an idea as to if people are driving drunk or while under the influence of drugs. If you did a roadblock or checkpoint and word got out, then you would have the people you are looking for avoiding the activity you are trying to catch them in the process of.
Couldn't you refuse to participate?
Sure, but you missed the point I was making.
People adjust their behavior when they find out police are in the vicinity of where they are driving. If the police set up an actual roadblock you will sometimes see people go out of their way to avoid any potential contact with the area where the police roadblock is set up--or if they get an idea that the roadblock is going to be a daily/time specific thing then they might adjust their overall behavior to avoid any incidents if they have to interact with the roadblock.
By having the police effectively doing traffic stops rather than a roadblock, it keeps an element of surprise to the survey.
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