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Without dipping into other Codices, do Chaos Marines have any effective Deathstars without using Nurgle?

Spawn and Bikes, without MoN can still be pretty effective, but who can really say no to T6 units. Combine it with a Black Mace or BBoS Lord or Sorceror with Invisibility for extra shenadigans. Apart from that, I can't really think of any other Deathstards which stand out that much.

Depends on the relativity of 'effective'.

I'd say in any sort of competitive setting, there is no build that makes it an effective deathstar that would last versus other strong lists.

That's pretty much it: Chaos have some very powerful units but they wouldn't last long against other deathstars such as Seer Councils or Screamers

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Depends on the relativity of 'effective'.

I'd say in any sort of competitive setting, there is no build that makes it an effective deathstar that would last versus other strong lists.

Any Deathstar or Chaos specifically?

I had been practicing with a 1750 list that I felt was pretty strong (no real deathstar unit) and practice games had gone fairly well. When it came to a tournament, I more or less had my teeth kicked in. The first game my teeth were kicked in by White Scars with Space Wolf allies, Game two was a draw but only because the game went to turn 7 and I was able to get my Heldrakes to remove his last troop choices. Game three was a slugfest with Blood Angels that left me defeated because of game ending on Turn 5 when I was banking on at least turn 6 and even then it was only a draw.

Generally they have good melee units like spawn and bikes, their terminators can get into squads of 10, but can't get a better invul then a 4+ normally.

Now you can always take 20 CSM dudes, make them MOK, add fabius, take kharn and charge like a madman. Works well.

How about a Chaos Lord with the Axe of Blind Fury and a Juggernaut of Khorne? Pair him with a bunch of Chaos Spawn or maybe bikes and go nuts.

Although you may just get shot to pieces as you try and close in. But you know its pretty awesome and manly.

The khorne lord on jugger with spawn is sound. Use khorne hounds or furies to give them a cover screen.

What about a Slaanesh Deathstar? Lord on bike with BBoS, MoS, Lightning Claw, Bikers with MoS, Icon of Excess?

 Rivet wrote:
What about a Slaanesh Deathstar? Lord on bike with BBoS, MoS, Lightning Claw, Bikers with MoS, Icon of Excess?

Thats pretty sound. Just take a ton of bikes to make the icon of excess worth it.

 captsabre wrote:

 Rivet wrote:
What about a Slaanesh Deathstar? Lord on bike with BBoS, MoS, Lightning Claw, Bikers with MoS, Icon of Excess?

Thats pretty sound. Just take a ton of bikes to make the icon of excess worth it.

Define a "ton"

 Rivet wrote:

 captsabre wrote:

 Rivet wrote:
What about a Slaanesh Deathstar? Lord on bike with BBoS, MoS, Lightning Claw, Bikers with MoS, Icon of Excess?

Thats pretty sound. Just take a ton of bikes to make the icon of excess worth it.

Define a "ton"

More than 5. Probably a full unit.

 Rivet wrote:

 captsabre wrote:

 Rivet wrote:
What about a Slaanesh Deathstar? Lord on bike with BBoS, MoS, Lightning Claw, Bikers with MoS, Icon of Excess?

Thats pretty sound. Just take a ton of bikes to make the icon of excess worth it.

Define a "ton"

I would say as many as you can fit in to be honest. The more the merrier!

Why would you want one?

I'm not questioning your ethics, or anything like that. But your motivation for what you want it to do is important to figuring out what can actually be used.

10 MoS terminators with banner of excess and Abbadon.

600ish point unit but It'll tear up anything.

I've seen a chaos lord attached to spawn be an easy deathstar that gets into combat without any problem at all (even in a competitive tournament setting). Of course, adding the mark of nurgle to the spawn makes it even nastier.

well, if you were lenient with adding a BL supplement. 20x MoS possessed with Huron, 3 ML sorcerer (MoS,spell familiar, sigil, BBoS, force weapon, steed) , and a 4 ML sorcerer (MoS,spell familiar, last memory, sigil, hand of darkness, force weapon), icon of excess.

TBH you can change the mark to whatever, always the chance of getting endurance

Grab 3 obliterators , add a sorcerer with the power that allow to re role to miss and ignore cover ( where i game we can pick the powers) , put them just before the mid field in cover and you got a very strange ranged death star ( 3 plasma cannons shots that "do not scatter" or 3 twin linked las cannons that ignore cover ) and the good thing of it is that you can have 2 units of those!

 GarretAsh wrote:
Grab 3 obliterators , add a sorcerer with the power that allow to re role to miss and ignore cover ( where i game we can pick the powers) , put them just before the mid field in cover and you got a very strange ranged death star ( 3 plasma cannons shots that "do not scatter" or 3 twin linked las cannons that ignore cover ) and the good thing of it is that you can have 2 units of those!

I like it! Will have to research it

some deathstars that come to mind(not all of these are point effecient, but they all kill things):

10 man terminator squads with a terminator lord deepstriking in
ahriman and 5 havocs with plasma guns infiltrating in in a rhino using ahrimans warlord trait
5 spawn and a chaos lord on a bike
10 bikers and a chaos lord on a bike
20 warp talons and a chaos lord with a jetpack deepstriking in
abaddon and 3 mutilators in a land raider with a chaos lord in terminator armor
kharn and 9 bezerkers in a land raider
2 daemon princes and a BL daemon prince in an allied detachment, fly up the board
3 vindicators surrounded by 2 land raiders to cover their side armor, slowly roll up the board
3 heldrakes deep striking in
20 plague marines footslogging
20 noise marines IoE, various upgrades, sitting behind an ADL or footslogging

Abaddon
Lv 3 Terminator Sorcerer with Sigil of Corruption, the BL Artefact that improves by 1 your Invuln save, the Nova artefact and the Skull for the Eternal Warrior.
6 Chosens with 3 Power Weapons (one for the champ) and 2 Meltaguns. All with MoS and Icon of Excess
Land Raider with Extra Armour, Dirge Caster and re-rolling dangerous terrain tests.

Really unstoppable in close combat.
But I'd call you crazy for taking that in anything with 3000 points or less...

 Rivet wrote:
Without dipping into other Codices, do Chaos Marines have any effective Deathstars without using Nurgle?

Not really.

They have more like Star Destroyers and less like death stars.

Very strong. Bad news for a squad of X-Wings, but not quite as deadly as a screamerStar or SeerCouncil.

 Rivet wrote:

 GarretAsh wrote:
Grab 3 obliterators , add a sorcerer with the power that allow to re role to miss and ignore cover ( where i game we can pick the powers) , put them just before the mid field in cover and you got a very strange ranged death star ( 3 plasma cannons shots that "do not scatter" or 3 twin linked las cannons that ignore cover ) and the good thing of it is that you can have 2 units of those!

I like it! Will have to research it

CSM sorcerers cannot get divination, so no reroll to miss or ignore cover.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Rivet wrote:
Without dipping into other Codices, do Chaos Marines have any effective Deathstars without using Nurgle?

Not really.

They have more like Star Destroyers and less like death stars.

Very strong. Bad news for a squad of X-Wings, but not quite as deadly as a screamerStar or SeerCouncil.

This was amusing. I will be happy with a Star Destroyer and I like all the ideas I have received. I have 10 bikes total so one Chaos Lord on bike with a 9 man bike squad with MoS, IoE, replace two biker's bolters with plasma guns.

 Rivet wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Rivet wrote:
Without dipping into other Codices, do Chaos Marines have any effective Deathstars without using Nurgle?

Not really.

They have more like Star Destroyers and less like death stars.

Very strong. Bad news for a squad of X-Wings, but not quite as deadly as a screamerStar or SeerCouncil.

This was amusing. I will be happy with a Star Destroyer and I like all the ideas I have received. I have 10 bikes total so one Chaos Lord on bike with a 9 man bike squad with MoS, IoE, replace two biker's bolters with plasma guns.

If you want a fast, tough and killy unit that is quite "cheap" and can handle almost anything (but it's very far from being a deathstar) I'd suggest this:

Chaos Lord with MoN, Bike, PF, LC, Sigil of Corruption
5 Chaos Spawn with MoN

For 345 points you get 15W with T6, a Lord with 3W, T6, 3+/4++ saves, moves 12", run 12", 5*(D6+1) attacks on the charge (plus 5 LC or PF attacks of the lord).
There are very few units that can easily shrug off this unit in CC (possibly 5 TH/SS terminators), but as I recall none of them has their mobility. And any gunline has to kill it turn 1 otherwise they will have them in their face by turn 2 and it will be already too late


The only real issue of such a unit is that it competes for a FS slot with the Heldrakes..

Not going the Nurgle route. Wanting to avoid Codex Nurgle because there is plenty good in the book, I am just seeking advice on it.

Are you going for a different god or you prefer to stay unmarked?

Diablix wrote:
Are you going for a different god or you prefer to stay unmarked?

I lean Heavily Slaanesh otherwise unmarked. Open to Tzeetch but not heard a lot of cheering of them.

Here is a point from one of Tzeentch's Lords of Change:

I'm using the DV Chaos (x2 cause I traded my DA for more Chaos) and here is how I've set up my Warlord.

Lvl 3 Sorcerer w/ Force Sword, BBoS, MoTz, Sigil of Corruption, Spell Familiar, Disc of Tzeentch.

What you have here is a mini-heldrake Psyker, with 12" Jetbike move (which also gives +1T, so there is your MoN), and a 3++ invuln to go with the 3+ armor sv and Jink jic you need it for some reason.

Now, this still isn't a "proven" build, except by me. I am exceptionally happy with my Sorcerer, especially because he makes other Psykers look like children playing with matches. I'm told this can also be put along side Spawn and Bikes, however I like to let this guy run along by himself and press the backfields for squishies.


So here is how it pans out, and keep in mind, I'm not really playing points-based, which is apparently the big thing people keep telling me is wrong with this build; It costs too much.

The BBoS is MEQ exterminator. So there is your solid range. I know people go "But Psyker can shoot?" and I submit that there are very few shooting spells out there that are as good a killer as the BBoS. But I digress: When I'm rolling for Psyker abilities, I'm after 3 things. An attack, a buff and a malediction. Because I'm Mark of Tzeentch, I'm not going to get a great Tzeentch ability. They're ok, but that's really it. In this case, I like to try for Doombolt because that can crack open Vehicles, something my Sorcerer isn't so good at by himself.

Now this seems pretty self-explanatory, but the reason I aim for this is that you've only got 3 Warp Charges to burn at any given time and some good de/buffs take two charges. So if I use a Blessing at Two Charges and a Malediction at 1 charge, I don't have any charges for my Warpflame attack, and that's fine because it's Doombolt, and BBoS burns up infantry better anyways. lol So it works. And there is also the force weapon that needs a charge should someone get funny and decide to have a psyker battle. It's proves to be more functional this way.

And did I mention you're essentially getting two marks for the price of one? Mark of Nurgles Toughness (from the Disc of Tzeentch) + Mark of Tzeentch's Inv Sv?


I think I might be in a rut, but here is the Tzeentch model I love. Another, albiet different but still good way to put a Sorcerer of Tzeentch to work? Give him Terminator Armor, Deep Strike with Terminators of Tzeentch and then soak up those 2+/4++ Invuln Saves. Beastly, imb, though I don't know if this is necessarily stronger or better than say, a Khorne Lord riding a Juggernaut or the Nurgle Biker Lord with Spawn.

On that note, the Termi-Tzeentch Sorcerer also mitigates more of those Psyker powers to Bio-Buffs to increase the Terminators survivability. Probably don't BBoS with that one, but then with so many brutes, why would you? Probably turn around and take the Murder Sword and hunt down enemy Warlords at that point. -shrug-

So there is some Tzeentch strategery. Not quite Deathstar, but certainly gives my opponents a headache when they think they've punched out my armor and I'm rolling an Invuln for it anyways. lol

 Rivet wrote:

Diablix wrote:
Are you going for a different god or you prefer to stay unmarked?

I lean Heavily Slaanesh otherwise unmarked. Open to Tzeetch but not heard a lot of cheering of them.

Because 6++ is not very good on a small unit, and their Icon is not very good. MoT Characters are good because Sigil gives them 3++ saves so they can sort of tank, but otherwise it is just not worth it. MoN Bikers need a Biomancy Sorc with Endurance to make them a real death star. FNP on them is huge, but without it I don't think they are that great, even at T6. To much stuff ignores Cover saves and armor saves, like the Helldrake. MoK bikers with a IoW and Lord might be really good, just no one ever talks about them. They lack the defense of the other Gods (even a 6++ is still a 6++), but make up for it offensively and as a device to get your Lord into Melee (btw, I prefer a bike lord over a Jugger because of the Jink). They should really hit like a ton of bricks, better than any other God.

With that said, and since your leaning toward Slaanesh and I run a EC list, this is probably what you want to hear. I run a Lord and a ML 3 Sorc with Biomancy in it, but the unit is small with 6 bikes (plus HQs). Since I am not shooting for Endurance, I take MoS and just take the 2 rolls looking for Enfeeble and Life Leech, but I am more than happy with Iron Arm and Warp Speed to make him a beast in melee. Every HQ takes Sigil and Melta bombs (and bikes, obviously). I like Melta bombs on my Champ as well, but he is otherwise naked for bad challenges. I give my Sorc a Maul to keep his Init and for the +2 Str (with Iron Arm you can hit Str 10 pretty quickly and Warp Speed means a super high Init+attacks) and my Lord has a LC+PF to give him options depending on who or what he is facing. I then run 2 bikes with Plasma and lead with the 2 normal bikers and my Lord (or Sorc if his Toughness is cranked to stupid levels). The Icon Bearer is the most important part of the unit and I keep him in the center, but even if he does get sniped out, that is another reason to stay on Biomancy because Endurance would give me redundancy (and then possible a extra body to soak wounds for the Lord and Sorc). If I have both, I save the Warp Charge for the Force Maul.

End of the day, you have to remember your army is more than this. Your going to need long range firepower and troops to take and hold objectives. Sure, you can have a 10 bike unit, but then your hurting really bad in other areas. Find the balance for your list and your play style. Besides, bad dice for you and good dice for your opponent means nothing is impervious to fire.