Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

There are several players in my area that all use 2 masters of ordnance i think it is, the Leman Russ with large blast and anthor IG tank with large blast. plenty of heavy weapons squads 3 valkyries Aegis and 2 large ish blobs.

i have eldar and Marines. none of the new big toys Centurions and wraith knights. I have alot of bikes power armor and Termies. as well as a couple of rhinos a Land raider crusader a single storm talon and a pair of TFC. Eldar i have a pretty general collection of everything.

the general issue im having is with all that ordnance barrage templates getting thrown at me no mater whether i go first or second in terrain or not on turn one i loose at least 25% if not more. my worst was he rolled perfect and i roll like crap i lost 60% before i just gave up. he hadn't fired everything. my eldar tend to fair a bit better than my DA. i just picked up the new Marine codex.

Any suggestions on how to deal with IG pie plate spam would be great because im at the point i just dont wanna play my IG friends any more.

Thanks

Drop pods. Doesnt give the guy an opportunity to spend 3 turns pie plating you whilst you walk to him.

Well the Leman Russ with the S8 AP3 large blast can't fire any of its other weapons properly, make sure he is playing that correctly. It is pretty easy to mess up, because they used to be able to shoot everything else normally.

Also, they aren't barrage weapons on the Leman Russ for the S8 AP3, just ordnance. If he is using the S10 AP2 one then it only has a 24" range, so you should be able to hit it before it hits you.

Spread your guys out, deep strike and assault the tanks, blow them up, spam high toughness units and don't forget Air Superiority fighters.

Try some drop pods with melta, speeders with dual MM, or an all termie list if you can. If you are Dark Angels like you said, a 10 man squad of termies with belial can get two heavy weapons (with split fire) exactly where you need them. Have fun next turn multi-assaulting the entire parking lot. If you need anti-air, look up the mortis (not contemptor) rules from FW. Easy to convert from any dreads you have around and should be able to knock down a vendetta or two.

Master of orb is as inaccurate as can be. Safer for him to aim at you than it is for him to aim at your mate across the field. Remember that most of the ord pie plate shooters have a min range as well as a max. Just get close enough that he cant even target you with it.Then assault the crap out of him/her.

 EVIL INC wrote:
Master of orb is as inaccurate as can be. Safer for him to aim at you than it is for him to aim at your mate across the field. Remember that most of the ord pie plate shooters have a min range as well as a max. Just get close enough that he cant even target you with it.Then assault the crap out of him/her.

I'm pretty sure minimum range doesn't work that way anymore. If you are within minimum range, you just can't subtract your BS from the scatter when you are shooting.

I can't see how the OP is having problems with the Master of Ordnance, since his shot scatters 3d6" if an arrow is rolled and 2d6" if a hit is rolled, so he never hits anything.

Have you tired using wave serpents as transports for your troops?

Hope that helps

 Bonde wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:
Master of orb is as inaccurate as can be. Safer for him to aim at you than it is for him to aim at your mate across the field. Remember that most of the ord pie plate shooters have a min range as well as a max. Just get close enough that he cant even target you with it.Then assault the crap out of him/her.

I'm pretty sure minimum range doesn't work that way anymore. If you are within minimum range, you just can't subtract your BS from the scatter when you are shooting.

I can't see how the OP is having problems with the Master of Ordnance, since his shot scatters 3d6" if an arrow is rolled and 2d6" if a hit is rolled, so he never hits anything.

Always Scatter??????????? i love when people don't know there own codex..................

Learn your rules, people.

There's no excuse for not knowing how barrage weapons work. There's also no excuse for not knowing how far you can displace your models and still be in coherency.

Once you know both of those, you have your answer to handling pie plate spam. Just be glad that you're merely facing off against blast weapons.

The local player that's using something similar uses two MoO, two Basilisks, a Medusa and a Manticore. The rest of the army, if I remember correctly, is a whole bunch of walking Joes, though I seem to remember him using a Valk. He's been doing pretty well with it lately, but not wiping face or anything.

Mali wrote:

 Bonde wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:
Master of orb is as inaccurate as can be. Safer for him to aim at you than it is for him to aim at your mate across the field. Remember that most of the ord pie plate shooters have a min range as well as a max. Just get close enough that he cant even target you with it.Then assault the crap out of him/her.

I'm pretty sure minimum range doesn't work that way anymore. If you are within minimum range, you just can't subtract your BS from the scatter when you are shooting.

I can't see how the OP is having problems with the Master of Ordnance, since his shot scatters 3d6" if an arrow is rolled and 2d6" if a hit is rolled, so he never hits anything.

Always Scatter??????????? i love when people don't know there own codex..................

What didnt he know about the scatter ?

Keep every single one of your models 2" away from another model. He'll be lucky to hit 3 with a single large blast

 tybg wrote:
Keep every single one of your models 2" away from another model. He'll be lucky to hit 3 with a single large blast

Gotta love the time I killed 14 grey hunters (mighta ben more but know was at least that many) with my very first shot in a game against a wolf player when he deployed them clumped base to base in a perfect little circle. My battlecannon was happy that day.

Fragile wrote:

Mali wrote:

 Bonde wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:
Master of orb is as inaccurate as can be. Safer for him to aim at you than it is for him to aim at your mate across the field. Remember that most of the ord pie plate shooters have a min range as well as a max. Just get close enough that he cant even target you with it.Then assault the crap out of him/her.

I'm pretty sure minimum range doesn't work that way anymore. If you are within minimum range, you just can't subtract your BS from the scatter when you are shooting.

I can't see how the OP is having problems with the Master of Ordnance, since his shot scatters 3d6" if an arrow is rolled and 2d6" if a hit is rolled, so he never hits anything.

Always Scatter??????????? i love when people don't know there own codex..................

What didnt he know about the scatter ?

not sure if he knew and conveniently forgot or not. I'm not really surprised this isn't the first time i have caught an IG player "forgetting his Dex". thanks for the suggestions i definatly try the ones i havent but i think i need to go buy and IG Dex and rules laywer the players in my area too

This is 40K. You need to know the opponent codex better than your own. Because the humanoids either forget or "forget" how their own book works quite often.

This is exactly why I read and re-read my cidex to ensure I know my own rules. I also make a point to read the other dexes as well. You'd be surprised how many players conveniently "forget" something when it suits their purposes.

 EVIL INC wrote:
This is exactly why I read and re-read my cidex to ensure I know my own rules. I also make a point to read the other dexes as well. You'd be surprised how many players conveniently "forget" something when it suits their purposes.

You do realize that the "read your rules" comment was aimed at you and your complete misunderstanding of how minimum range works for barrage weapons, right?

MOO is real simple.

On an arrow it scatters 3d6-BS if the MOO has LOS
On a hit it scatters 2D6-BS

Wildly inaccurate

The CCS can give the order their own squad bring it down to reroll to hit As long as the intended target is a vehicle or mc.

Now it's wildly inaccurate with a reroll.

In larger games odds are it will hit something.

There is also the option of adding a witch hunter inquisitor to make the squad bs10 when shooting a psyker.

you might not have noticed this but the MoO Does indeed deviate. Even if you roll a "hit" you go in the direction of the arrow on the hit side of the dice. Read page 31 of the guard codex. as for getting in close you are indeed a lot safer. can you point out in the guard codex what page has the rule on it that allows you to fire "pie plates" so that they cover your own models? I knowthey can accidentally deviate onto and damage your stuff, but was unaware that you could purposely do so. having read and re-read the codex, I have yet to find that passage. of course, I would have to be in dire straights indeen to pop 9 pie plates down onto my own army from a manticore squad rolling for 3 shots each.
now I see where Inquisitor Karamazov can do so and hit automatically if he centers his orbital bombardment ona model within his own army (grey knights codex page 46 but just cant seem to find it in the guard codex in reference to barrage weapons. so so far, my post remains accurate.

 EVIL INC wrote:
you might not have noticed this but the MoO Does indeed deviate. Even if you roll a "hit" you go in the direction of the arrow on the hit side of the dice. Read page 31 of the guard codex.

Yes, which is what everyone just said. Please stop being so eager to prove everyone wrong and "win" at forums that you don't even bother to read what they're saying.

as for getting in close you are indeed a lot safer. can you point out in the guard codex what page has the rule on it that allows you to fire "pie plates" so that they cover your own models?

That's not what you said. You claimed that once you get inside the weapon's minimum range they can't target you, which is obviously false. Allow me to quote:

Remember that most of the ord pie plate shooters have a min range as well as a max. Just get close enough that he cant even target you with it.

And then you criticized other people for not knowing the rules, which is hilarious irony.

 EVIL INC wrote:
Peregrine you are indeed correct. I'm sorry.

I'm glad you finally realized that.

he has yet to show me where I am incorrect on the MoO as he claims and how guard is able to target their own units with barrages to hit models amongst them as he suggests. Until he is able to do that, I remain correct.

@ EVIL INC I am not sure Peregrine indicated you could target your own troops with Barrage weapons. He simply indicated your comments about minimum range were incorrect.

The MoO isn't THAT bad. After all, he's BS4, and then as mentioned, can get the order.

Assuming that you can scatter 3" and still hit what you're pointing at (due to blast template size), which means you're firing at a pretty small model, then when you roll a hit on the scatter die then, on average, you're still hitting what you're shooting at. Move the target to a larger size, where you can scatter, say, 5" and still clip the model with your template, and that means that you can scatter up to a 9 on the die roll and still hit. With orders, you get to reroll the scatter die to boot.

Assuming orders, and said larger target, you get a hit on a .55, which then hits the target on a .83, and you get a scatter on a .45 which then hits the target on a .38.

The end result of all that math is that a master of ordnance, shooting at a monstrous creature or vehicle with bring it down still hits the target on a .62.

Which is about BS4. The inaccuracy of masters of ordnance is usually grossly exaggerated. The problem isn't getting them to hit stuff, but rather to keep them alive long enough to get their first hit. Given that the CCS is so fragile, and such bait for both first blood and slay the warlord...

 Archer wrote:
@ EVIL INC I am not sure Peregrine indicated you could target your own troops with Barrage weapons. He simply indicated your comments about minimum range were incorrect.

page 31, guard codex states that the MoO does indeed deviate even if you roll a "hit. As has been suggested, there is at least 1 way to get a reroll, but even then, it will STILL deviate. I defer to Ailaros's mathhammer. it may be that my luck is so horrible that mine deviated more than average. Even while it may not be a inaccurate as presented, it IS still inaccurate enough that I don't bother taking him in my army.

Page34 of the rulebook states that there are penalties to firing at targets within your min range of a barrage. You treat it as indirect fire and you do not get to subtract your BS from the distance deviated if it deviates (I have yet to find this magic rule he is talking about that lets guard ignore this.). this means that you are safer from barrages within the min range than you are outside the min range. (took me a bit to find exactly where this was but I knew if I kept looking, I' find the passage that supported me and the page number to give) This combined with the next part...

page 33 of the rulebook states that you are unable to target a model such that any friendly models are also covered (I have yet to find this magic rules that he is talking about that allows guard barrages to ignore this). This combined with the previous point stands to reason that it is safer in amongst the enemy units than sitting out in the middle of the field trading shots with them. s you are space wolves, up close and personal is where you want to be against all of these tanks and artillery weapons. Despite what others are suggesting. As I have YET to see a guard player that lines all of their artillery up on the front line in front of everything else in the army (including the front av 14 russes, we will assume that they are being kept in the back (I know I keep mine as far from the front line as possible) that if you get within their min range you will essentially in amongst the rest of their army. at least close enough to it to make shooting at you almost as dangerous for him as it is for you.

THIS is why I read and re-read my codex and try to read as many other codexes as possible. For just such occasions as when someone else "forgets" their rules or as in this case, tries to pull one over on me assuming I have 'forgotten" my own rules.

Holy flying baby jesus with a jetpack, you're doing it on purpose or what?

Bonde made the comment about you misunderstanding a rule, which is what Peregrine ment, and then you go on a tagent about the MoO which is only relevant because he has a Barrage weapon

Here:

 EVIL INC wrote:
Remember that most of the ord pie plate shooters have a min range as well as a max. Just get close enough that he cant even target you with it.Then assault the crap out of him/her.

This is innacurate, unless the plate hits some of your own models, at which point you're pretty much done for, as your enemy would have to be within spitting distance of your line. Arguably, bunching up is probably the best your enemy can do if he're that close to your line, otherwise you can simply put the blast on the units on the rear without hitting your own troops.

You can fire under your minimum range (unless specified, see: mortars and heavy mortars), but shots will be flying all over the place, which is still better than not be firing at all, its not the same as not being able to fire at all.

I refer you to page 33 and 34 of the main rulebook and page 31 of the guard codex.

 Ailaros wrote:
The end result of all that math is that a master of ordnance, shooting at a monstrous creature or vehicle with bring it down still hits the target on a .62.

Just note that you're making some rather generous scatter assumptions and ignoring the chance of failing the BiD order (or desire to use it elsewhere).

 EVIL INC wrote:
page 31, guard codex states that the MoO does indeed deviate even if you roll a "hit.

Yes, and nobody is arguing that it doesn't. You're attacking an imaginary opponent here.

Page34 of the rulebook states that there are penalties to firing at targets within your min range of a barrage. You treat it as indirect fire and you do not get to subtract your BS from the distance deviated if it deviates (I have yet to find this magic rule he is talking about that lets guard ignore this.). this means that you are safer from barrages within the min range than you are outside the min range. (took me a bit to find exactly where this was but I knew if I kept looking, I' find the passage that supported me and the page number to give) This combined with the next part...

That's not what you said. You said that if a unit is inside the weapon's minimum range you can't target it at all. Instead of embarrassing yourself trying to defend your mistake just admit that you got it wrong and move on.

(I have yet to find this magic rules that he is talking about that allows guard barrages to ignore this)

Again you're attacking an imaginary opponent. Nobody is arguing that you can place a barrage shot in contact with a friendly unit.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Holy flying baby jesus with a jetpack, you're doing it on purpose or what?