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 pretre wrote:
Kind of early to be asserting exactly what's in it, isn't it?

Erm ... maybe read the official descriptions on the website confirming what is written in WD.
We know that both books features only data sheets for models we already have data sheets for.
Only uncertainty is whether the actual new stuff would fit on 1, 2 or 3 pages.

 azreal13 wrote:
While I will of course be ordering them from a discounter...

Logged into the GW store. Added them to my basket. Went to the check out and then suddenly thought: "What the hell am I doing?". Closed the window, went to Combat Company, ordered them all for about 15-20% off.

I must keep remembering that Australia has discounters as well.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Not sure if serious.
50c per page with most of them just a reprint or slight modification of existing rules plus some added WD pics is not what I call a good deal.

Totally serious.

It's no more expensive than a Codex, for a similar page count, it gives the rules for a few of the iconic units I would very much like to field one day, but doesn't require the purchase of the (much more expensive) Apoc rulebook, which I have never had, and likely will never have, any desire to play.

Perhaps I'm just a good fit for one of the ever more specific niches GW seems to be releasing product for, and in no way am I calling this cheap, but less expensive than expected (because I had assumed it would be direct only, and Wayland are taking preorders at -15%, which means Darksphere may well be cheaper again) and "not a blatant price gouge" is about the best we get from GW with most releases these days.

Erm ... maybe read the official descriptions on the website confirming what is written in WD.
We know that both books features only data sheets for models we already have data sheets for.
Only uncertainty is whether the actual new stuff would fit on 1, 2 or 3 pages.

Yeah, you're right, your statement is totally true when compared to this. :rolleyes:

This 96-page, full colour, hardback supplement contains:

· A background section introducing Lords of War units and their terrifying impact on the battlefield.
· All the rules needed to play with super-heavy vehicles (including Flyers and Walkers) and Gargantuan Creatures, as well as rules for their potent wargear.
· An amended force organization chart that allows players to choose Lords of War units as part of their standard Warhammer 40,000 armies.
· Datasheets for every plastic super-heavy Citadel miniature, plus a selection of super-heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures from Forge World.
· A showcase of expertly painted Lords of War Citadel miniatures.
· New Altar of War and Gauntlet Challenge missions that can be played instead of the Eternal War missions in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

Yep, looks like only has datasheets for stuff we already have data sheets for. Oh, and 5 other bullet points. Totally correct except for that five other bullet points part. I'm sure that the background,, new campaign type rules, FOC and missions all fit on 3 pages though.

Wait, maybe your original statement was more true than your amended one:

50c per page with most of them just a reprint or slight modification of existing rules plus some added WD pics is not what I call a good deal.

Nope.

Providing that the books are actually competently written, a couple of years ago, I'd be chomping at the bit for both of these books. Planetstrike is fun and all, but I've always just wanted rules for a 'proper' siege.

And getting extra rules to have games with a superheavy without the rest of the apocalypse overhead but making it still feel like it's properly part of the game is a great idea.

However, GW are just far too annoying nowadays. So much so, that I really cannot be bothered to get either of these.

 Troike wrote:
Nobody is getting moved there anymore, though. At least not in 40K.

For a simple reason. Name one 40k metal kit .

 Troike wrote:
Neither were any other digital editions, to be fair.

Good thing every other army was not digital-exclusive, then !

 Troike wrote:
Cruddace said that we would probably get one if the digital codex sold well.

Real army don't need to show they can sell well in digital before getting some physical release. Also, real army get their physical army book translated, which we ain't likely to get.

 Troike wrote:
Well, probably because we didn't get any formations, likely because of the all-metal thing, the or OOP codex thing.

That's why we got no fluff, no Finest hour, not even a passing mention. Yeah, because we're not a real army anymore.

 Troike wrote:
We have a codex

We do have a bunch of English dirty xhtml files in some zip archive. GW can call that a codex, but my dictionary disagree .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Troike wrote:
Nobody is getting moved there anymore, though. At least not in 40K.

For a simple reason. Name one 40k metal kit

Imperial Guard Sanctioned Psykers, Cullexis Assassins and half of the Eldar Phoenix Lords, to name but a few.

 Redemption wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Troike wrote:
Nobody is getting moved there anymore, though. At least not in 40K.

For a simple reason. Name one 40k metal kit

Imperial Guard Sanctioned Psykers, Cullexis Assassins and half of the Eldar Phoenix Lords, to name but a few.

Even the mighty Space Marines still have metal in the range : http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1050245

This 96-page, full colour, hardback supplement contains:

· A background section introducing Lords of War units and their terrifying impact on the battlefield.
· All the rules needed to play with super-heavy vehicles (including Flyers and Walkers) and Gargantuan Creatures, as well as rules for their potent wargear.
· An amended force organization chart that allows players to choose Lords of War units as part of their standard Warhammer 40,000 armies.
· Datasheets for every plastic super-heavy Citadel miniature, plus a selection of super-heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures from Forge World.
· A showcase of expertly painted Lords of War Citadel miniatures.
· New Altar of War and Gauntlet Challenge missions that can be played instead of the Eternal War missions in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

Which is just porting over The Lord of War mechanic from the Forgeworld Horus Heresy series into games of 40k.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
Imperial Guard Sanctioned Psykers, Cullexis Assassins and half of the Eldar Phoenix Lords, to name but a few.

Even the mighty Space Marines still have metal in the range : http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1050245

That's traces. Small oddities. The huge majority of metal models have been ported.

muwhe wrote:

This 96-page, full colour, hardback supplement contains:

· A background section introducing Lords of War units and their terrifying impact on the battlefield.
· All the rules needed to play with super-heavy vehicles (including Flyers and Walkers) and Gargantuan Creatures, as well as rules for their potent wargear.
· An amended force organization chart that allows players to choose Lords of War units as part of their standard Warhammer 40,000 armies.
· Datasheets for every plastic super-heavy Citadel miniature, plus a selection of super-heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures from Forge World.
· A showcase of expertly painted Lords of War Citadel miniatures.
· New Altar of War and Gauntlet Challenge missions that can be played instead of the Eternal War missions in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

Which is just porting over The Lord of War mechanic from the Forgeworld Horus Heresy series into games of 40k.

Isn't the LoW slot in the Heresy books for the Primarchs? Or are there other choices?

It's for Primarchs and Super-Heavies.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
Imperial Guard Sanctioned Psykers, Cullexis Assassins and half of the Eldar Phoenix Lords, to name but a few.

Even the mighty Space Marines still have metal in the range : http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1050245

That's traces. Small oddities. The huge majority of metal models have been ported.

And?

You asked to name just one metal kit. Several have been pointed out. They aren't the majority of GW's product range anymore, a given, but that wasn't your question.

So another "feth the xenos armies" cash grab month. What happened to all the rumors about xenos specific fortifications we were supposed to be getting?

Superheavies in regular games. Lessee, I play Tau...I know I'll just plunk down the assinine amount of cash to get a Manta just to make sure nobody will ever play against me. I'm not sure the stupid thing will even fit in the trunk of my car and my nerd closet is definitely not big enough to store it.

 agnosto wrote:
So another "feth the xenos armies" cash grab month. What happened to all the rumors about xenos specific fortifications we were supposed to be getting?

Someone lied.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Real army don't need to show they can sell well in digital before getting some physical release.

No, but digital editions do. Still doesn't make us less real.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
That's why we got no fluff, no Finest hour, not even a passing mention. Yeah, because we're not a real army anymore.

Or because they had no formations in the book, so there was little point in mentioning them.

Also, they were mentioned once. In the description for the "Divine Intervention" thing.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
We do have a bunch of English dirty xhtml files in some zip archive. GW can call that a codex, but my dictionary disagree .

The 40K definition of codex is a set of rules that allow you to play an army on the tabletop. That's what the AS digital codex is, so it being called a codex is accurate. Therefore, they're a real army.

I didn't want to have to use this image, Hybrid, but you leave me no choice.

Anyone know if I can use my Warhound Titan in Escalation? [i.e. is it included in the 16 datasheets]. Also, does anyone know what templates will be used with Escalation? Is it the apocalypse templates?

 Zweischneid wrote:
And?

And thank you for your answers, but it was just a rhetorical question meant to imply that the replacement of metal by finecast had slowed mainly because of a very sharp decline of eligible models, rather than because of a change in strategy.

 Troike wrote:
No, but digital editions do. Still doesn't make us less real.

It does. We are not real. Because digital edition makes use… virtual ! We are a virtual army.

 Troike wrote:
Or because they had no formations in the book, so there was little point in mentioning them.

So, your explanation for them not being mentioned anywhere in the book is them not being mentioned in the most important part of the book, and that's supposed to show how we are considered an army in its own right ?

 Troike wrote:
Also, they were mentioned once. In the description for the "Divine Intervention" thing.

I obviously didn't buy the book (it was way too expensive for something I could only use as toilet paper, or as fire starter or something), but I've been assured repeatedly and with assurance they were not mentioned.

 Troike wrote:
The 40K definition of codex is a set of rules that allow you to play an army on the tabletop.

So, that means the Inquisition is an army too, now. Well, we will see what they get for their Lord of War .

Honestly, I won't ever take for granted that it includes AS when GW will mention anything “for every army”. Just as I won't take for granted it includes Inquisition as a separate entity from Grey Knight. Sadly Forge World seems more likely to make some super-mega-robot controlled by a dreadknight strapped on its belly than to make any kind of Sisters or Inquisition-specific super-heavy.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
So, your explanation for them not being mentioned anywhere in the book is them not being mentioned in the most important part of the book, and that's supposed to show how we are considered an army in its own right ?

What? No, I said that we probably didn't get any formations, and thus any mention, due to the all-metal thing. And appearing in Apoc isn't a pre-requisite for being a real army. Having a codex is.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I obviously didn't buy the book (it was way too expensive for something I could only use as toilet paper, or as fire starter or something), but I've been assured repeatedly and with assurance they were not mentioned.

And I've seen a pic of the Divine Intervention thing in there, and it says Sisters of Battle on it. Granted, it's easy to miss/forget.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
So, that means the Inquisition is an army too, now. Well, we will see what they get for their Lord of War .

Some top-notch wordplay there, Oxayotl, but the =] [= codex has been referred to as and indeed is an allies codex, so they're not really the same.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Sadly Forge World seems more likely to make some super-mega-robot controlled by a dreadknight strapped on its belly than to make any kind of Sisters or Inquisition-specific super-heavy.

I get the impression that you're not one for optimism, but an interesting tidbit surfaced recently.

That box on the right talks about the Ecclesiarchy using massive mobile cathedrals for war. If FW were ever to make an AS super-heavy, it seems that they have a good idea for one.

 agnosto wrote:
So another "feth the xenos armies" cash grab month. What happened to all the rumors about xenos specific fortifications we were supposed to be getting?

Superheavies in regular games. Lessee, I play Tau...I know I'll just plunk down the assinine amount of cash to get a Manta just to make sure nobody will ever play against me. I'm not sure the stupid thing will even fit in the trunk of my car and my nerd closet is definitely not big enough to store it.

I don't understand the complaint here. Xenos can use the fortifications. They have made lots of generic/Imperial terrain, however, because it's the most likely to sell, and humans are fighting all over the galaxy they once (all but) owned. Oh yeah, and we are humans, so it's the most relate-able concept.

Escalation has rules for every army, so again, not sure about the complaint.

Cash grab? If it's a dumb idea or illogical release that pisses everyone off, it wouldn't grab cash.

 brassangel wrote:
I don't understand the complaint here. Xenos can use the fortifications. They have made lots of generic/Imperial terrain, however, because it's the most likely to sell, and humans are fighting all over the galaxy they once (all but) owned. Oh yeah, and we are humans, so it's the most relate-able concept.

Escalation has rules for every army, so again, not sure about the complaint.

Cash grab? If it's a dumb idea or illogical release that pisses everyone off, it wouldn't grab cash.

1.) When Xenos army player demand Xenos terrain, they don't want non-Xenos terrain. Simple as that.
2.) Just because I am human, doesn't mean, I love clunky metal buildings covered with thousands of skulls. Also your argument wouldn't explain Space Marine sales, because no customer is a genetically modified super-human.
3.) People in my community here were joking that the next supplement would certainly be made to allow expensive Apocalypse only plastic kits in normal games. When it got announced, we all had a good laugh, but nobody wants to buy something like that.
4.) Some armies have an Apocalypse only plastic kit, they get slightly modified rules for that. Others don't, so GW includes rules for 300-650 US$ resin models. This is clearly not the same.
5.) Tricky marketing move to sell fortifications with the argument: Free rules included! Then invalidate those free rules in a non-free supplement only 5 months later.

 Kroothawk wrote:

5.) Tricky marketing move to sell fortifications with the argument: Free rules included! Then invalidate those free rules in a non-free supplement only 5 months later.

You read the book and know for sure they've invalidated those rules then? Or maybe they just did their usual "lazy copy-paste" and reproduced them as-is.

The product discription does mention updated rules; hopefully these are for things like the sky shield/ battlements rather than the newer stuff.

HarryLeChien wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

5.) Tricky marketing move to sell fortifications with the argument: Free rules included! Then invalidate those free rules in a non-free supplement only 5 months later.

You read the book and know for sure they've invalidated those rules then? Or maybe they just did their usual "lazy copy-paste" and reproduced them as-is.

The product discription does mention updated rules; hopefully these are for things like the sky shield/ battlements rather than the newer stuff.

Updated rules is most likely integrating the FAQ stuff into the printed rules.
The only changes I'd like to see to the Vengeance weapon batteries and the Firestorm Redoubt is to let them swap all three weapons around, like the models are designed to.
I'm also happy to see that the Wall of Martyrs stuff is getting rules finally. Makes me finally want to paint up the emplacements, and think about getting a set of trenches and bunker.
Also the updated rules for battlefield debris and weapons could be related to the rumor that there will be xenos specific weapons upgrades for fortifications.

 Kroothawk wrote:

because no customer is a genetically modified super-human.

Speak for yourself!

 Kroothawk wrote:

1.) When Xenos army player demand Xenos terrain, they don't want non-Xenos terrain. Simple as that.
.

Thankfully other gaming companies exist, and some make Xenos suitable terrain. One did pretty well out of a kickstarter for that sort of thing recently

We also don't know if GW is going to make Xenos specific terrain. The focus right now is about generic releases, and getting every codex up to date.

Which do you suppose is a better move: Release every little nook and cranny for every army possible, and spend 10 years trying to get every army out? Or get every army out, and worry about the little stuff later? We know digital releases don't really take up time and space, but physically making terrain and models does.

We can't get everything at once, and people would complain either way. This still gives everybody something they can use, while maintaining GW's army-release schedule.

No one saw this release coming, really, but once it gets here, people complain that their pet army didn't get a piece of terrain released. lol at them.

Hang on, I've just noticed the pre-order price for Escalation on iBooks is only £22....

What's going on?!

 Troike wrote:
No, I said that we probably didn't get any formations, and thus any mention, due to the all-metal thing.

So, the all-metal thing is why we are not considered a real army now .

 Troike wrote:
I get the impression that you're not one for optimism, but an interesting tidbit surfaced recently.

Spoiler:

That box on the right talks about the Ecclesiarchy using massive mobile cathedrals for war. If FW were ever to make an AS super-heavy, it seems that they have a good idea for one.

Reading that small, blurry test hurt my eyes ! I'm also confused about why they decided to include ten pages about sisters when everything else is marines. I don't think any sisters player will want to pay £50.00 for a book full of marines and just 10 pages of sisters (and rules for 1 (one) vehicle), and marine players don't really care for sisters fluff.
I'll find a way to read those 10 pages without buying the book (not necessarily illegal, burrowing the book from someone else for five minutes to read all those long 10 pages is no crime in civilized countries).

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Reading that small, blurry test hurt my eyes !

FW wants you to work to see their previews, I guess.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I'm also confused about why they decided to include ten pages about sisters when everything else is marines.

They get eight pages, actually.

Anyway, they're there because it's "their" book. As well as Inquisitorial vehicles, this is where FW tells us about SoB vehicles. Regardless, it's nice to see

 Troike wrote:
They get eight pages, actually.

Well, Sisters' section start on page 232, and next section start on page 241, so it's supposed to be 9 pages. Except if they only dedicate one page to the immolator, and one page of transition that is unrelated to Sisters.
Out of 250 pages, it's approximately “not enough page to be worth buying” .

 Troike wrote:
Anyway, they're there because it's "their" book.

If it's “their” book, why shall even the introduction be on the domains and selected glories of space marines only ? I mean, except if Sisters are not considered an army in their own right, but some kind of oddities that can be used as allies for flavor, or something like that.