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Made in us
Slippery Ultramarine Scout Biker





I've asked this question before in other threads but could never get a clear response or the thread would devolve into arguing. Are grots prevented from firing the ADL quad gun due to being too short and unable to see over the wall? Because in artillery rules you must measure range and LOS using the operator of the artillery piece. I just really want to make sure I'm not making any mistakes when doing this.

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its by TLoS, so they can only shoot what they can see

And yes the ADL can BLoS
   
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If the grot cants see it, it can't shoot. Period.

insaniak wrote:
YMDC has plenty of room for discussion veering away from the RAW, particularly in cases like this where what is being put forward as the RAW is absurd.

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Yup, any model that can not see over the wall can not shoot over it, as they need LOS to their target.

 
   
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Total bummer man, anyway around this travesty?

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 earlofburger wrote:
Total bummer man, anyway around this travesty?


not with out cheating and modeling for advantage
   
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Reading, UK

 CrownAxe wrote:
 earlofburger wrote:
Total bummer man, anyway around this travesty?

not with out cheating and modeling for advantage
That, or good use of terrain. A very shallow mesa (or a slope) could give you enough LOS to shoot, yet still grant you the ADL's cover save.

Perhaps difficult to engineer properly every game, but certainly not impossible.

DoW

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Place the quad gun to one end of the wall, so that the grots can peer round the end?

 
   
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 DogOfWar wrote:
 CrownAxe wrote:
 earlofburger wrote:
Total bummer man, anyway around this travesty?

not with out cheating and modeling for advantage
That, or good use of terrain. A very shallow mesa (or a slope) could give you enough LOS to shoot, yet still grant you the ADL's cover save.

Perhaps difficult to engineer properly every game, but certainly not impossible.

DoW

of course if you do that you probably won't get cover from the ADL then either
   
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@crownAxe: wouldn't enemy fire be directed towards the quad gun like standard artillery rules? Or does the ADL gun work different?

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 earlofburger wrote:
@crownAxe: wouldn't enemy fire be directed towards the quad gun like standard artillery rules? Or does the ADL gun work different?


Gun Emplacements aren't apart of your unit, so no
   
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welp, i guess i could try insaniak's idea

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 CrownAxe wrote:

of course if you do that you probably won't get cover from the ADL then either
Perhaps. It would take a bit of a model's eye view but I think you can probably get the eyeline of a grot over the wall without exposing the entire torso. Ymmv.

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But the Grot is tiny, and nimble. He's resourceful and cunning, mostly because he's a coward but he's a smart coward nonetheless. I say the Grot CAN fire the ADL Gun because it has a targeting display, because he can climb on top of another Grot and aim while a third Grot yanks the firing mechanism, because it's an Orky ADL Gun and the Grots built a platform for it, because TLoS is ridiculous, because I'm drunk and I want the Grot to fire the gun! Either he does it or I send a Nob over to bash 'im!

Besides, the Grot can't hit anything anyways. Just let the lil guy fire the gun and have a laugh as he hits everything BUT the target.



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darkcloak wrote:
But the Grot is tiny, and nimble. He's resourceful and cunning, mostly because he's a coward but he's a smart coward nonetheless. I say the Grot CAN fire the ADL Gun because it has a targeting display, because he can climb on top of another Grot and aim while a third Grot yanks the firing mechanism, because it's an Orky ADL Gun and the Grots built a platform for it, because TLoS is ridiculous, because I'm drunk and I want the Grot to fire the gun! Either he does it or I send a Nob over to bash 'im!

Besides, the Grot can't hit anything anyways. Just let the lil guy fire the gun and have a laugh as he hits everything BUT the target.


You cay all you want, but the rules state otherwise.

Or if we are going to go by Fluff I should be able to win 30,000 point games with 1000 points of marines; after all a single squad is supposed to be able to pacify a city, so 2000 points of any army would be an easy auto win for 2000 points of marines.

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darkcloak wrote:
But the Grot is tiny, and nimble. He's resourceful and cunning, mostly because he's a coward but he's a smart coward nonetheless. I say the Grot CAN fire the ADL Gun because it has a targeting display, because he can climb on top of another Grot and aim while a third Grot yanks the firing mechanism, because it's an Orky ADL Gun and the Grots built a platform for it, because TLoS is ridiculous, because I'm drunk and I want the Grot to fire the gun! Either he does it or I send a Nob over to bash 'im!

Besides, the Grot can't hit anything anyways. Just let the lil guy fire the gun and have a laugh as he hits everything BUT the target.
Don't mind the crusty old dakkaites, Darkcloak, I found it amusing

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All you need to do is have the gun at the end of the wall and jump one grot a turn in front to fire it.

 
   
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 mrshl9898 wrote:
All you need to do is have the gun at the end of the wall and jump one grot a turn in front to fire it.

This, let them waste a whole unit's shooting on one grot.

Even better put the gun behind the aegis but at the far end so the gun can claim a cover save from the ADL and the grot can still get into base to fire the gun.

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The gun touches the wall the grot stands on the base between model and ADL. Viola.

If the WAAC player is gonna be like that, by the same token this also means that storm raven can't see you either

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/27 06:39:37


 
   
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 doktor_g wrote:
The gun touches the wall the grot stands on the base between model and ADL. Viola.

If the WAAC player is gonna be like that, by the same token this also means that storm raven can't see you either

depends on how close the storm raven is
   
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 earlofburger wrote:
Total bummer man, anyway around this travesty?


Ask your TO for their own ruling. Sofar, 100% of TO's have said "feth that gak, Grots can use the weapon", but YMMV

Also you can modify the base of the model without breaching the rules. Stick the Grot on a rock or some gak, and laugh as certain opponents cry MFA and tear out their neckbeards
   
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 doktor_g wrote:
If the WAAC player is gonna be like that, ...

Expecting an opponent to actually draw LOS in order to shoot, in a game that uses TLOS (and has done for 20 years) is not exactly most people's definition of 'WAAC' behaviour.

 
   
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 Dakkamite wrote:
Also you can modify the base of the model without breaching the rules. Stick the Grot on a rock or some gak, and laugh as certain opponents cry MFA and tear out their neckbeards


Elevating a model on the base to gain an advantage is the literal definition of MFA. If you do that, it would only be fair if your opponents glue some tall grass or sandbags on their bases so they are always in cover. Down that path lies madness.

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 Dakkamite wrote:
 earlofburger wrote:
Total bummer man, anyway around this travesty?


Ask your TO for their own ruling. Sofar, 100% of TO's have said "feth that gak, Grots can use the weapon", but YMMV

Also you can modify the base of the model without breaching the rules. Stick the Grot on a rock or some gak, and laugh as certain opponents cry MFA and tear out their neckbeards

So you'd be OK with me modelling my base such that you couldnt draw LOS to my model? As long as youre consistent.
   
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Other option is if you’re meta and tournaments allow, custom or 3rd party ADL's, I'd prefer that to just house ruling they can shoot over. Check first.

Wouldn’t recommend modifying bases.

It's my codex and I'll cry If I want to.

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 insaniak wrote:
 doktor_g wrote:
If the WAAC player is gonna be like that, ...

Expecting an opponent to actually draw LOS in order to shoot, in a game that uses TLOS (and has done for 20 years) is not exactly most people's definition of 'WAAC' behaviour.


Conceded, I just got my hackles up because we were talkin' 'bout my grots man.... I mean they're grots! They've been crapped on all their short lives and now this...



Have a heart bro!

But seriously...shouldn't LOS be drawn from the QG anyway? Even though I'd be the likely beneficiary, I don't think I'd disallow my opponent (even in a tourney) to not shoot at me.
   
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 Nem wrote:
Other option is if you’re meta and tournaments allow, custom or 3rd party ADL's
I personally use GW's Ork Barricade kit. It's the same length as an ADL (almost as if they designed it that way )
It's not quite as tactically flexible, as it doesn't have the small sections, but is a good height for grots.
So far non of my opponents have complained, and GW are happy for you to use it at their tournaments.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/27 11:19:34


 
   
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Doktor - no, the rules for those emplaced weapons is quite clear - you use the LOS of the model firing it
   
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I don't know, I think a grot standing on the shoulder of another grot would be quite funny. Tournament legal? Nah. But it would be quite funny. Especially if there's another pair nearby looking through the slots as spotters.
   
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Munga wrote:
I don't know, I think a grot standing on the shoulder of another grot would be quite funny. Tournament legal? Nah. But it would be quite funny. Especially if there's another pair nearby looking through the slots as spotters.


Forge World has such a model, as part of the Gretchin Crew.


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