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2013/11/27 02:03:11
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Slippery Ultramarine Scout Biker
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I've asked this question before in other threads but could never get a clear response or the thread would devolve into arguing. Are grots prevented from firing the ADL quad gun due to being too short and unable to see over the wall? Because in artillery rules you must measure range and LOS using the operator of the artillery piece. I just really want to make sure I'm not making any mistakes when doing this.
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Guardians of the Temple 2000 points
GorStomp's Brutal Boyz: 2000 points |
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2013/11/27 02:04:28
Subject: Re:Grots and the ADL
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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its by TLoS, so they can only shoot what they can see
And yes the ADL can BLoS
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2013/11/27 02:06:03
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker
South Chicago burbs
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If the grot cants see it, it can't shoot. Period.
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2013/11/27 02:09:49
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Yup, any model that can not see over the wall can not shoot over it, as they need LOS to their target.
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2013/11/27 02:10:43
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Slippery Ultramarine Scout Biker
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Total bummer man, anyway around this travesty?
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Guardians of the Temple 2000 points
GorStomp's Brutal Boyz: 2000 points |
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2013/11/27 02:11:22
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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not with out cheating and modeling for advantage
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2013/11/27 02:15:28
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Ship's Officer
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That, or good use of terrain. A very shallow mesa (or a slope) could give you enough LOS to shoot, yet still grant you the ADL's cover save.
Perhaps difficult to engineer properly every game, but certainly not impossible.
DoW
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"War. War never changes." - Fallout
4000pts
3000pts
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2013/11/27 02:18:20
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Place the quad gun to one end of the wall, so that the grots can peer round the end?
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2013/11/27 02:18:31
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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DogOfWar wrote:That, or good use of terrain. A very shallow mesa (or a slope) could give you enough LOS to shoot, yet still grant you the ADL's cover save.
Perhaps difficult to engineer properly every game, but certainly not impossible.
DoW
of course if you do that you probably won't get cover from the ADL then either
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2013/11/27 02:21:44
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Slippery Ultramarine Scout Biker
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@crownAxe: wouldn't enemy fire be directed towards the quad gun like standard artillery rules? Or does the ADL gun work different?
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Guardians of the Temple 2000 points
GorStomp's Brutal Boyz: 2000 points |
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2013/11/27 02:28:19
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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earlofburger wrote:@crownAxe: wouldn't enemy fire be directed towards the quad gun like standard artillery rules? Or does the ADL gun work different?
Gun Emplacements aren't apart of your unit, so no
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2013/11/27 02:31:07
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Slippery Ultramarine Scout Biker
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welp, i guess i could try insaniak's idea
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Guardians of the Temple 2000 points
GorStomp's Brutal Boyz: 2000 points |
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2013/11/27 03:10:58
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Ship's Officer
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CrownAxe wrote:
of course if you do that you probably won't get cover from the ADL then either
Perhaps. It would take a bit of a model's eye view but I think you can probably get the eyeline of a grot over the wall without exposing the entire torso. Ymmv.
DoW
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"War. War never changes." - Fallout
4000pts
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2013/11/27 03:31:35
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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But the Grot is tiny, and nimble. He's resourceful and cunning, mostly because he's a coward but he's a smart coward nonetheless. I say the Grot CAN fire the ADL Gun because it has a targeting display, because he can climb on top of another Grot and aim while a third Grot yanks the firing mechanism, because it's an Orky ADL Gun and the Grots built a platform for it, because TLoS is ridiculous, because I'm drunk and I want the Grot to fire the gun! Either he does it or I send a Nob over to bash 'im!
Besides, the Grot can't hit anything anyways. Just let the lil guy fire the gun and have a laugh as he hits everything BUT the target.
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Gets along better with animals... Go figure. |
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2013/11/27 03:53:30
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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darkcloak wrote:But the Grot is tiny, and nimble. He's resourceful and cunning, mostly because he's a coward but he's a smart coward nonetheless. I say the Grot CAN fire the ADL Gun because it has a targeting display, because he can climb on top of another Grot and aim while a third Grot yanks the firing mechanism, because it's an Orky ADL Gun and the Grots built a platform for it, because TLoS is ridiculous, because I'm drunk and I want the Grot to fire the gun! Either he does it or I send a Nob over to bash 'im!
Besides, the Grot can't hit anything anyways. Just let the lil guy fire the gun and have a laugh as he hits everything BUT the target.
You cay all you want, but the rules state otherwise.
Or if we are going to go by Fluff I should be able to win 30,000 point games with 1000 points of marines; after all a single squad is supposed to be able to pacify a city, so 2000 points of any army would be an easy auto win for 2000 points of marines.
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This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
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2013/11/27 04:11:24
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Ship's Officer
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darkcloak wrote:But the Grot is tiny, and nimble. He's resourceful and cunning, mostly because he's a coward but he's a smart coward nonetheless. I say the Grot CAN fire the ADL Gun because it has a targeting display, because he can climb on top of another Grot and aim while a third Grot yanks the firing mechanism, because it's an Orky ADL Gun and the Grots built a platform for it, because TLoS is ridiculous, because I'm drunk and I want the Grot to fire the gun! Either he does it or I send a Nob over to bash 'im!
Besides, the Grot can't hit anything anyways. Just let the lil guy fire the gun and have a laugh as he hits everything BUT the target.
Don't mind the crusty old dakkaites, Darkcloak, I found it amusing
DoW
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"War. War never changes." - Fallout
4000pts
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2013/11/27 06:17:14
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Rookie Pilot
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All you need to do is have the gun at the end of the wall and jump one grot a turn in front to fire it.
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2013/11/27 06:36:44
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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mrshl9898 wrote:All you need to do is have the gun at the end of the wall and jump one grot a turn in front to fire it.
This, let them waste a whole unit's shooting on one grot.
Even better put the gun behind the aegis but at the far end so the gun can claim a cover save from the ADL and the grot can still get into base to fire the gun.
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2013/11/27 06:37:07
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Krazed Killa Kan
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The gun touches the wall the grot stands on the base between model and ADL. Viola.
If the WAAC player is gonna be like that, by the same token this also means that storm raven can't see you either
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/27 06:39:37
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2013/11/27 06:43:14
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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doktor_g wrote:The gun touches the wall the grot stands on the base between model and ADL. Viola.
If the WAAC player is gonna be like that, by the same token this also means that storm raven can't see you either
depends on how close the storm raven is
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2013/11/27 06:46:36
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Disguised Speculo
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Ask your TO for their own ruling. Sofar, 100% of TO's have said "feth that gak, Grots can use the weapon", but YMMV
Also you can modify the base of the model without breaching the rules. Stick the Grot on a rock or some gak, and laugh as certain opponents cry MFA and tear out their neckbeards
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2013/11/27 08:35:16
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Expecting an opponent to actually draw LOS in order to shoot, in a game that uses TLOS (and has done for 20 years) is not exactly most people's definition of ' WAAC' behaviour.
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2013/11/27 09:06:37
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Dakkamite wrote:Also you can modify the base of the model without breaching the rules. Stick the Grot on a rock or some gak, and laugh as certain opponents cry MFA and tear out their neckbeards
Elevating a model on the base to gain an advantage is the literal definition of MFA. If you do that, it would only be fair if your opponents glue some tall grass or sandbags on their bases so they are always in cover. Down that path lies madness.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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2013/11/27 10:40:58
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Dakkamite wrote:
Ask your TO for their own ruling. Sofar, 100% of TO's have said "feth that gak, Grots can use the weapon", but YMMV
Also you can modify the base of the model without breaching the rules. Stick the Grot on a rock or some gak, and laugh as certain opponents cry MFA and tear out their neckbeards
So you'd be OK with me modelling my base such that you couldnt draw LOS to my model? As long as youre consistent.
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2013/11/27 10:54:10
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Tough Tyrant Guard
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Other option is if you’re meta and tournaments allow, custom or 3rd party ADL's, I'd prefer that to just house ruling they can shoot over. Check first.
Wouldn’t recommend modifying bases.
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It's my codex and I'll cry If I want to.
Tactical objectives are fantastic |
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2013/11/27 10:59:50
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Krazed Killa Kan
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insaniak wrote:
Expecting an opponent to actually draw LOS in order to shoot, in a game that uses TLOS (and has done for 20 years) is not exactly most people's definition of ' WAAC' behaviour.
Conceded, I just got my hackles up because we were talkin' 'bout my grots man.... I mean they're grots! They've been crapped on all their short lives and now this...
Have a heart bro!
But seriously...shouldn't LOS be drawn from the QG anyway? Even though I'd be the likely beneficiary, I don't think I'd disallow my opponent (even in a tourney) to not shoot at me.
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2013/11/27 11:15:21
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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Nem wrote:Other option is if you’re meta and tournaments allow, custom or 3rd party ADL's
I personally use GW's Ork Barricade kit. It's the same length as an ADL (almost as if they designed it that way )
It's not quite as tactically flexible, as it doesn't have the small sections, but is a good height for grots.
So far non of my opponents have complained, and GW are happy for you to use it at their tournaments.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/27 11:19:34
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2013/11/27 11:32:19
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Doktor - no, the rules for those emplaced weapons is quite clear - you use the LOS of the model firing it
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2013/11/27 11:50:38
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Dakka Veteran
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I don't know, I think a grot standing on the shoulder of another grot would be quite funny. Tournament legal? Nah. But it would be quite funny. Especially if there's another pair nearby looking through the slots as spotters.
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2013/11/27 12:03:46
Subject: Grots and the ADL
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Munga wrote:I don't know, I think a grot standing on the shoulder of another grot would be quite funny. Tournament legal? Nah. But it would be quite funny. Especially if there's another pair nearby looking through the slots as spotters.
Forge World has such a model, as part of the Gretchin Crew.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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