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They've made it clear it's going to stay, Panic, just FYI.

This has been doing quite well and I think there's a chance the starfield and slanted urban streets will unlock! Would love to see previews as we get close to them, if available

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
OK I didn't read the 9 pages.
I popped back in and the new designs look great.

Did the logo thing get resolved?

They seem very noticeable to me.
In the apocalypse time photo I can see the white logo splodge on all mats. and that's in a photo taken from quite some distance. I imagine they would jump out even more if i was up close in person.

If it's your honest opinion that no one ever notices them?
I don't see why you would have a problem removing them from the mat?

Panic...

Panic,
I haven't seen the mats in person, but this is probably the best picture that shows the scale of the logos.



It is up to each person, but I don't hold it against Nike or New Balance from putting their logo on the shoes I buy. I certainly think that Frontline and TableWar are entitled to place their brand on one of their products as well. Like I said, it is up to you if you want to buy it after seeing the pictures of the product (logo and all).

As far as perception... there is a difference between hearing and listening. I'm sure that my wife says a lot more than what I listen to. Seeing is the same way. You can see the logos, but in the heat of the game I'm pretty sure that I won't notice that they are there.

Hey guys,

As Anpu-adom pointed out, we had a delay at the factory. Our partner there, Todd, saw the first sample Alpine come off of the line and it had purple shadows! So, we had to double time to fix it.

That set us back a few days, so Barren Wasteland will be done Tuesday. It stinks but it was necessary to ensure the Alpine mats were up to standard. That is one of the benefits of having eyes on the project. If they would have been shipped here wrong, it would have been a disaster!

But, all is well and the Alpine look fantastic.

4x4's will be done shortly thereafter.

We honestly may not get the Space and Urban angled done before funding, just to be forthright with everyone. We will do our best to do so, but with the few delays and our tight schedule, it may not happen until after funding.

@Panic

As has been discussed at length, the logos wills tay, but they are tiny.

Yes, in 100% honesty I can say that the majority of the people that come in to our store and see the 2 prototypes, no one has mentioned the logos unless I point to them.

The images of the Urban Mats are not actual mats. As I state on the photo, they are a photo-shopped image to show what 5 mats would look like, those are not real. It was just a cool way to show why straight streets are fun.

We want the logo so people who see the mat can then identify who made them so they know where to get one. It is branding. We felt it was done tastefully. We are gamers too, and value aesthetics, so we struck what we thought was a good balance. Besides, we;re proud of what we made, too!

Anyway, I hope that answers your questions. Feel free to shoot me more if you have any additionally.

Reece

@Reece,
Don't forget to mention that wave #1 of the Grassy Plains and Blast Zone mats will be finished within a day or two of the kickstarter closing! That is super huge and exciting!!!

(And how international shipping works, etc... no, no one gets their mats early!)

Haha, we should hire you, Anpu-adom, you are on point!

But yes, we will have the first run of mats in our hands in January! Everyone will have their mats super fast!

I will also have a physical Urban Combat and Alpine prototype in my hands Thursday! So anyone that wants to come to the shop can see them for themselves! And we will of course be busting out bat reps with them, soon!

yeah,
Sorry, not interested in them if branded. I don't want visible branding... no matter how small.
If people don't notice them.. you should get rid of them, they are blocking sales!

If they are truly so tiny people never see them I don't see why you don't ditch them.

If you must have your name somewhere, which seems very egotistical, why can't you stick your brand on the back of the mats instead of the gaming surface?

Also If someone wants to know about a mat/mini/base/paint/whatever in this hobby the owner is always happy to tell them!!

Panic...

@Panic
You know branding has a positive too. That is the company that produces the mat will try to make them the longest lasting and best product they can as a crappy mat with their brand will not get sales. Not that I don't think Reece will do that anyways but it is a form of insurance.

If the brand bothers me then I will put a piece of terrain on it. Problem fixed. With 25% of the board covered in terrain it shouldn't be a problem.

@Panic

Sorry we won't be earning your business, but no hard feelings.

@ansacs

Exactly, the logo is tiny, people are truly overreacting to it. It's there for folks who look to see who made it. The focal point of the mat is the middle, typically, where the models and terrain tend to be.

When people see them in real life, they will understand. We are not worried about it impacting sales at all, honestly. Not a single person that has seen them in real life has had anything negative to say about it.

But hey, I have people telling me a million different things on how to make these better, often directly conflicting advice

So long as people are having fun playing games on the mats we made, then we are proud of what we did and I have no doubt that will be exactly what happens.

Reece perhaps you should post pictures of the mats blank and with stuff on them in a diorama...then with a big flashing title showing how a small shack or crater can be used to hide the evil mark of corporate corruption...er, frontline/tablewar brands.

That's a really good idea, actually. I will do so!

Hey Reece,

I'm still not a backer yet (sorry!), because, as I've mentioned before, the only mat concept that appeals to my particular needs would be an urban mat with diagonal streets. I'd love to put in a pledge to help try to get to the $80k level to unlock the urban mat 2, but I notice that you mentioned the urban mat 2 with diagonal streets will be tileable with the urban mat 1 design.

That kind of scares me, as looking at the Urban 1 road designs, if you're forcing your diagonal roads to have to match up with those, then I'm having a hard time imagining how the street designs would be pleasing.

I know you don't have anything official worked up for the urban mat 2 yet, but is there any way you could post a rough sketch outline of how you see the roads working out on the urban 2 mat? Because I would hate to pledge, get the urban 2 mat unlocked and then not have the design work for me and regret it later.


Thanks!

Hey Yak,

If I said the two mats would be tileable I misspoke or you misunderstood as we have no plans for that to occur. The current Urban Combat mats are tileable, and the 4x4' will tile with them, but that is as far as we've gotten.

And we'd love your pledge, of course, but as stated, due to an unforseen manufacturing issue that had to addressed, we've lost 3 vital days of design time and may not have the second Urban Combat mat ready before funding.

 Reecius wrote:
Hey Yak,

If I said the two mats would be tileable I misspoke or you misunderstood as we have no plans for that to occur. The current Urban Combat mats are tileable, and the 4x4' will tile with them, but that is as far as we've gotten.

And we'd love your pledge, of course, but as stated, due to an unforseen manufacturing issue that had to addressed, we've lost 3 vital days of design time and may not have the second Urban Combat mat ready before funding.

I figured based on what you've been saying recently that any design for the urban 2 mat would not be able to be rolled out before the end of the KS, which is kind of why I'm asking now...because if the urban mat 2 will fill my needs, then I'd love to help out by pledging. Everything I've seen of your other mat styles (including the urban mat 1) I tend to like, so I really just want to know what your thinking is going to be regarding how the streets on the urban 2 mat will be laid out. If there's any way you can kind of express that in a line drawing I'd love to see that, even if you want to just PM or email it to me if you prefer.

"Tileable" is from the stretch goal text on the main KS page, just FYI.

@Yak

The guys have been going till like 5am on designs, they are actually very labor intensive to make them as detailed as they are. So, if possible, I promise that I will get those sketches up ASAP but it may not happen. We're at maximum burn right now.

We would love your support, thanks for considering our project,

@RiTides

Ah, I see that, I will correct that. Thanks for pointing that out.

If I pledge will you un-ban Grimoire from Las Vega Open?

 L0rdF1end wrote:
If I pledge will you un-ban Grimoire from Las Vega Open?

Since Grimoire isn't banned at LVO, I'm sure that wouldn't be a problem. (Feast of Blades has proposed banning it, but I'm sure that Chandler would appreciate your feedback).

Thanks Anpu,

Yeah, we didn't ban it, that is FoB.

Not a single person that has seen them in real life has had anything negative to say about it.

Keep in mind that people are more honest on the internet. It's harder to tell someone that something sucks in person, people don't want to be TFG.

It's quite an expensive purchase, but I could see myself buying one if I felt that it was a premium product. The logo gets in the way of me being able to justify the purchase.

The pic with the scale shot of the logo is not reassuring, "revenant titan for scale" is not exactly the best way to convince people that it's small. :p

I would rather have a 4-foot long logo on the carrying case for the mat than a 4cm long logo on the mat itself.

@scarletsquig

Haha, people are more honest on the internet? That is one way to look at it.

They also tend to be a lot more reactionary as well, and often can be much more rude than they would in real life (not saying that applies to anyone here, I am just speaking in general terms).

But, logically, who's opinions do you think is more representative of the facts: someone who has only seen a picture or something or someone that has seen it in real life? For example, you do not trust the scale picture with a Rev, and infantry (and I included large and small models to show the difference) but what would you have us do about that? I have taken multiple pictures showing how small it is but in the end you have to see it for yourself to really understand how hard to notice it is on the actual mats. You only see it if you are looking for it.

The folks that have come on to play on it have not said anything about it, and I have asked everyone to give me their point blank, honest opinion. If you believe that information or not is up to you, there really isn't a lot more I can do.

If you like it, get it! It's a great product. If not, no worries. But I can say for sure, the logo is very, very minor.

How easy is it to paint over the logo anyway, any examples? Would paint even stick?

Also, do you plan on UK/ EU distribution at retail?

I probably will have a look at one IRL before buying, come to think of it, that's a fair point you raise. I have been checking the KS periodically to see if the desert mat renders are up since that's the one I'd have most interest in.

I honestly can't answer that question as I have never tried to paint ours (they are only two!) although my guess would be that it may be difficult to do as it is flexible material treated with a water resistant coating. I don't know though, really, I imagine that perhaps spray paint could do it, or an airbrush (I would recommend using a stencil to avoid over-spray.

Here is a pic of how small the stupid logo is and how easy it is to cover! haha, I mean, if you find it distasteful that is a personal opinion but I assure you, the thing is TINY.

The barrier that covers it is less than a 1/2" thick.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Per the KS, we do have European distribution set up, they will ship out of Sweden.Desert should be up today, actually, I am very eagerly awaiting it, myself!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the dimensions of the logo is in total about 0.4" x 3.75"? It is very small.

Nice that one of them is white. Even less visible on Alpine.

^ That's a good point, the high contrast of the white is the main thing that stands out as jarring to me, although on the alpine map the black would be the part that is jarring.

Perhaps the logo colours could be modified on each different mat? Maybe lose the white interior and replace black with dark green on the grass mat and brown on the desert map, something like that.

If you look at logos on TV stations these days they tend to have a semi-transparent white-ish logo in the corner or something rather than something high-contrast and solid. It's a compromise made between having visible branding, but not having it visually distracting. Just a possible idea for a tweak.

Of course, you're probably sick of hearing about the logo at this point, I just wanted to finish up with something potentially constructive rather than an aimless rant/ ramble.

<deleted by user since it is totally redundant>

Love it with the fence in place but that's not usually where I put terrain (i.e. where there's no room to hide behind it and still be on the board)

And I think the white is what pulls me out, too. As squig said, it's more of the "premium product" factor for me, as well- something like this alone wouldn't keep me from buying it, but when it's on the line price-wise at about $100, it is a factor (for me at least, and a number of others, although that isn't quantifiable).

One question would be, is the number of people put off by the logo offset by those who buy the product because of the logo (since they can easily see who made it without having to ask or see the packaging)? There won't ever be a way to know, but just from those who have posted there are half a dozen or so in this thread (although most won't post). Not enough to sway Frontline, obviously... so we'll never know the difference that including it or not would have made.

BTW I would use a small shack or power station to cover it. I tend to place small buildings near corners to "finish" maps off so they look like they are part of a whole.

Here it is, 'Barren Wasteland'! A beautiful 4'x6' desert/post-apocalyptic mat! The detail on this mat is absolutely gorgeous! Check out the close-ups.

Also, please see attached Close-Ups of the Alpine mat, too!

Very nice!

Thanks, sir! I really like the Barren Wasteland, it came out so awesome!