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Tiggy -165( with Honor guard) - warlord
Chapter master w/ Shield eternal, bike, TH, auspex, digital weapons artificer armor- 270 (NOT with bikes)
10 man Honor guard w/ 5 power axes, 4 relic blades, chapter banner, TH champion - 340
10 man Tac squad w/ vet sgt combi plasma, plasma gun in Rhino- 210
10 man Tac squad w/ vet sgt combi melta, melta gun in Rhino- 205
5 man Bike squad w/ 2 melta guns Vet Sgt w/ melta bombs-140
1 Storm talons w/ skyhammer missiles- 125
Land Raider redeemer w/ MM- 250

DA allies-
ML 2 libby- 100 (with honor guard)
10 man Tac squad w/ combi plasma, plasma gun in Rhino – 200


so the idea is to get, at the very least, prescience, forewarning, and foreboding (invisibility on really lucky days!) on Tiggy and the DA libby. (hopefully) with Tiggy rerolling his powers it should be able to get them most of the time (ofc, as long as he gets forewarning, things can be -ok-) anything else is just icing on the cake, personally. I was thinking about having one of them go for invisibility as that, is just plain amazing.
but both go with the HG in the Land Raider. they are supported by 3 rhinos w/ squads inside, 5 bikes and a beatstick chapter master. who WILL charge something he wants to charge. there is a small lack of AA but eh.

now can you give me a rating on, if I roll well for powers, how competitive it is? and if I roll poorly, (minimum of forewarning and prescience w/ the "other" divination powers) how competitive it is? If you have any tried and proved ideas please let me know!

Yes yes, lots of points into one unit. IDC. There job is to wipe out prime targets, OR clear the way and absorb fire for my beatstick so HE can clear out prime targets. that HG unit will not be slowed by much, so he can feed it almost anything and I will be ok with it, as anything that could slow THEM would eat the rest of my units alive. And tbh, there is not much I would be afraid to get into CC with with them. (specially on some good rolls) And as long as they keep the attention of my "insignificant" troops for 4 turns I am fine with it.

I think a unit of 6 wraiths with a destroyer lord would hurt your hg unit a lot. Especially if they had whip coils. And they are probably a lot cheap than our hg unit too.

Thats a good thing that necron players here don't use many wraiths. Though mindshackle scarabs are..... prominent..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I ask how competitive it is. Knowing its nowhere near as nice as some other death stars. While imo its more killy than most. It requires lucky rolls on powers to be semi tough.

Keep in mind that you cannot take the DA Libby in the Land Raider. Even Battle Brothers can not embark in the same transport.
Relic Blades seem to be out of favor these days, lots of points.
Most builds involve half axes, half mauls or 3 swords, 3 axes, 3 mauls and TH on the Champion

Ahhh dammit I always forget that sillyness. I will prob find points to give him a bike.
I like relic blades since I get the maul str at ap3 with only two handed neg.

Why oh why are you not taking that powerfield generator that DA have? That would give your hg more survivability, even more so than invisibility in most cases. Run him in the bike squad next to the raider then attach him to your HG when they diembark, thats away around the transport issue!

It seems like it's geared to kill other MEQs. What happens if you run into Daemons, IG, etc. that don't really care much about low AP weapons? Also seems like the Death Star would be fairly easy to tarpit with zombies or something.

the HG has 4 attacks on the charge with relic blades (two handed.. meh) hitting on 3s-4s (3s if I can nab invisibility) wounding on 2s vs most of these armies you mentioned. the power axes get 5 attacks on the charge. prescience allows me to reroll to hit in CC. they are also wounding on 2+ vs most those armies you suggested. then add in tiggy and the champ. it will be extremely hard to tarpit this unit imo. As I said, its a lot more killy than others, its only downfall is limited survivability with a 2+/4++ and no way to gain FnP :(.

so, 4x4= 16 str 6 attacks at ap 3 + power axes= 25 str 5 attacks at ap2 (on charge) + TH 4 attacks for a total of 55 attacks wounding most other infantry on 2s or 3s. not counting Tiggys attacks. (assuming ofc, thanks to the LR they take no casualties)


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Poly Ranger wrote:
Why oh why are you not taking that powerfield generator that DA have? That would give your hg more survivability, even more so than invisibility in most cases. Run him in the bike squad next to the raider then attach him to your HG when they diembark, thats away around the transport issue!

as I have said, tiggy will have forewarning. so no need for the PFG. that aside, PFG gives the 4++ to MODELS (ally and ENEMY) withing 3". why would I want to give things invluns vs my ap2/3 weapons


Automatically Appended Next Post:
though, I COULD take a bike and PFG on my DA lib and run him behind the land raider as I do on some DA lists.

Your "deathstar" will get murdered by the following in CC:
Harliquins with kiss
Terminators with th/ss/pf
ork boys
ork nobs with pks
centurion asslt
mutalators

These are the only units which come to mind atm
Reasons why are below

Harlequins get 4A each at I6 with rending,
ork boys because you dont have enough attacks at over I2
to cause them grief and when you take 60 hits back you better be rolling hot,
Ork nobs with pks will probably result in both units getting wiped, Centurion asslt sqds will put so man S9 ap2 hits on your unit prepare the tear vase, and mutalators just because
they can be a lot of Pf hits.

 Arbiter wrote:
Your "deathstar" will get murdered by the following in CC:
Harliquins with kiss
Terminators with th/ss/pf
ork boys
ork nobs with pks
centurion asslt
mutalators

These are the only units which come to mind atm
Reasons why are below

Harlequins get 4A each at I6 with rending,
ork boys because you dont have enough attacks at over I2
to cause them grief and when you take 60 hits back you better be rolling hot,
Ork nobs with pks will probably result in both units getting wiped, Centurion asslt sqds will put so man S9 ap2 hits on your unit prepare the tear vase, and mutalators just because
they can be a lot of Pf hits.

10 Honour Guard vs A mob of boys will absolutely destroy the mob and unless they're kitted with I1 axes, will probably only have about 15 attacks to face. Honour guard have a 2+ save too.

Ah that is interesting. I was totally unaware that the save also applied to the enemy. Well you answered that one very well!

 Arbiter wrote:
Your "deathstar" will get murdered by the following in CC:
Harliquins with kiss
Terminators with th/ss/pf
ork boys
ork nobs with pks
centurion asslt
mutalators

These are the only units which come to mind atm
Reasons why are below

Harlequins get 4A each at I6 with rending,
ork boys because you dont have enough attacks at over I2
to cause them grief and when you take 60 hits back you better be rolling hot,
Ork nobs with pks will probably result in both units getting wiped, Centurion asslt sqds will put so man S9 ap2 hits on your unit prepare the tear vase, and mutalators just because
they can be a lot of Pf hits.

termnators will die horribly to my ap2 axes. and with a 4++ I stand good chances of surviveing hits back (specially if I get invisibility) (that is a IF, but one that makes them amazing)

again, sure the harlequins will hurt a bit, but then I hit back a lot harder. Like I said, they are killy, not the most survivable.

boys.. heh. ok.

ap 4 str 6 attacks will hurt them some, sure, they get to hit, but then my ap2 wipe them. and I keep going. that nob/meganob squad alone got me over half my points back .

 raiden wrote:
the HG has 4 attacks on the charge with relic blades (two handed.. meh) hitting on 3s-4s (3s if I can nab invisibility) wounding on 2s vs most of these armies you mentioned. the power axes get 5 attacks on the charge. prescience allows me to reroll to hit in CC. they are also wounding on 2+ vs most those armies you suggested. then add in tiggy and the champ. it will be extremely hard to tarpit this unit imo. As I said, its a lot more killy than others, its only downfall is limited survivability with a 2+/4++ and no way to gain FnP :(.

so, 4x4= 16 str 6 attacks at ap 3 + power axes= 25 str 5 attacks at ap2 (on charge) + TH 4 attacks for a total of 55 attacks wounding most other infantry on 2s or 3s. not counting Tiggys attacks. (assuming ofc, thanks to the LR they take no casualties)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Why oh why are you not taking that powerfield generator that DA have? That would give your hg more survivability, even more so than invisibility in most cases. Run him in the bike squad next to the raider then attach him to your HG when they diembark, thats away around the transport issue!

as I have said, tiggy will have forewarning. so no need for the PFG. that aside, PFG gives the 4++ to MODELS (ally and ENEMY) withing 3". why would I want to give things invluns vs my ap2/3 weapons


Automatically Appended Next Post:
though, I COULD take a bike and PFG on my DA lib and run him behind the land raider as I do on some DA lists.

Since all of your axes and hammers are Unwieldy, and those make up the majority of the unit, you should really never assume that you're going to get all of your attacks. In addition, most of your the unit's resilience and killing power depends on psychic buffs. They're still Marines after all.

true, but I still have 20 str 6 ap3 attacks at I4. (meant to have 5 relic blades, 4 axes). and yes, most deathstars resiliency comes from physic powers, marines are not alone in this.

Drop the Relic blades not worth it. Take power mauls I'd go with 6 Mauls personally in a 10 man but 5 is OK. The reason Relic Blades aren't worth it?

Let's compare them first to the worst of the power weapons. The power sword. You have 5 attacks on the charge against most things hitting on 4s wounding on 4s that's 1.25 AP3 wounds. Relic blade has 4 attacks, hits on 4s wounds on 2s that's 1.67 AP3 wounds a 33% increase in killing. But Relic blades are 10 points each on a 25 point model meaning you're paying 40% more for 33% increase in killing power and 0% increase in survivability. So point for point the power sword out performs the Relic blade.

What about the maul. Well against everything that isn't in power armour the maul is better as it has an extra attack at the same strength. So you're paying 10 points to be worse against most stuff so you are better against MEQs. But do you need to be that much better against MEQs? With prescience off:

5 Mauls = 25 attacks = 18.75 hits = 15.62 wounds = 5.2 dead marines

Then Tiggy and the Libby weigh in also with mauls:

10 attacks = 8.89 hits = 7.4 wounds = 2.47 dead marines

Meaning you'll kill the best part of 8 marines before all your AP2 swings even with mauls. Hence why on earth would you waste 50 points on Relic blades?

As for the list over all. A single HG deathstar isn't that great compared to other deathstars, screamerstar will laugh at your deathstar for instance as will the Farsun bomb. Whilst solo Landraiders are a bad idea EVERYONE can deal with a Landraider. But many (particularly Tau and Eldar the 2 current power houses) will struggle to deal with 2-3 Landraiders.

Supported by Vindicators and/or Preds you can present a wall of AV13+ and that makes life very difficult for your opponents. Rather than trying to force an HG death star take advantage of the fact they are dirt cheap for what they do and keep them relatively cheap so you can have more threats.

Whilst taking 3 full tac squads is eating up lots of points with ineffective units. Particularly given that you have the option to take the vastly superior bike squads as troops.

Likewise Solo Stormtalons are a total waste 2 HPs means any sort of interceptor and it is dead before it ever shoots. You need 2-3 before they are worth it. With the type of army you look like you're trying to build I would just concentrate on winning the ground battle and ignore the skies.

Damn marines have changed a great deal in 6th edition, its either retool a stack of models or buy a stack more.

Flingit is the mech wall still effective? Two vindicators, a pred, a raider dedicated with bodies for objectives? If so what is the right mix these days? Ie talons, ravens? Anyone use ADL still or just other fliers?

Raiden in response to your comment about ork boyz,
a 30 boy sqd get 3A base 3x30=90A, your relic blades go at I4
and out of 20A 10 hit and about 8 will wound now that leaves
22 boyz left to swing before your axes... 22x3=66 attacking hitting on 4s wounding on 5s (if they didn't charge) so 33 hits
about 11 wounds so chances are with a 2+ save you fail 2 (i would fail a lot more), then your 5 axes get 25A 13 hits 7 wounds, you killed 15 boyz to their 2 honor guard and now your stuck in combat....

So never under estimate the ork boy you will come to regret it.

You forgot to add in prescience rerolls

If you get it off i have seen a lot of failed tests when it matters most but if you do you will probably murder most of the unit but its still down to the luck of the dice.

Also a unit of 30 boyz costs 6x30 points for a gand total of 180pts, your honor guard squad costs 320pts, your models at 25pts each basic guy has to kill 4 boyz before he makes his points back, as for mega nobz i would advise running away from then instead of charging.

meganobs in open top vehicle (fast).. you don;t run from those lol!