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Man stop bitching about the price and some one tell us about the rules . I think by now every one can see its over priced .

Ive seent the stats page and hes no monster but ba 10 rather handy. I need to know the special rules and points cost and im in!

Shrouded, fleet, Hit & Run, Eternal Warrior... Not too shabby.

Now we are getting some where cheers guys.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Boomstick wrote:
Ive bought it and happy with it, its a nice book with some cool new missions which I intend to play and plenty of fluff to read when I get chance. Its defiantly at the high end of what im willing to pay but for Cypher im willing to spend the extra on something ive been waiting many, many years for and rather support this endeavour than moan about it.

At least they have you well trained.

I find it strange that someone is not allowed to be happy with it. Obviously the worth of it is different to different people.

Ok, expensive and I doubt I would play him, but geez they did not skimp on the fluff. There is quite a bit of it.

17.00 for rules for one model is ludicrous.

It's also disappointing that he can work for erruhbuddy and their mom, but no dark angels (even if represented as fallen, etc).

Disappointing, and i'll be passing on the Cypher dataslate (and he's my favorite character from the fluff). I don't want to support this amount of price bloat inflation.

The sad part about all this is that no matter how much people want to sit on their high horse, scoff at GW and say "I will never support their ridiculous prices by not buying their things!", GW is never going to change. Someone out there is still going to buy their "inflated priced stuff". It's not changed since GW first started their price hikes, and it won't change anytime soon either. In the end, community members either put down their pitchforks, sigh, and resort to paying the prices, or quit.

Personally, I don't mind throwing down the cash given the amount of lore and fluff in it, in addition to the rules. Everyone else who just wants the rules can just print out the rules leaks floating around the internet.

More on Cypher/tactics discussion over here, if anyone is interested.

If it was just the rules yes it's too much,

but there is a decent amount of other stuff there too in terms of background etc

so expensive, but no worse than the supplements

buy it if you want to know about Cypher (and maybe use him in game although from what I see he's probably too expensive for what he offers unless you've got a 'cunning plan')

 Haight wrote:
17.00 for rules for one model is ludicrous.

It's also disappointing that he can work for erruhbuddy and their mom, but no dark angels (even if represented as fallen, etc).

Disappointing, and i'll be passing on the Cypher dataslate (and he's my favorite character from the fluff). I don't want to support this amount of price bloat inflation.

Why does everyone keep saying it's just for the rules? It's six missions, a formation, and near 115 pages.

At least say it's rules and 'shoddy fluff' or something.

Wow, some people in here are pretty butthurt over nothing. This is the way GW is going to operate going forward, deal with it. Yeah GW used to be better, but now its changed. That's life.

As for me, I bought the rules and love it. I've had this model sitting around for years and now I can play him with official rules instead of house rules.

I actually like the fact that he can't ally with Dark Angels. In fact, Dark Angels are the only army that he should absolutely not be able to ally with. The Dark Angels as they are organized now did not exist when Cypher was in the Legion. C:SM would be the best codex to really represent an army of "Fallen" Dark Angels as they were more like the more vanilla legions at the time of the heresy.

 Allod wrote:

 Lansirill wrote:
So instead of fetishizing Games Workshop's attitude towards customers as some sort of grimdark bukkake, maybe just sit back and focus on what's fun. Of course, if complaining about GW's prices is what's fun, I guess I can just file it under different strokes et. al.

Or you could pick a sensible position somewhere between the extreme ends of the scale and enjoy GW's stuff when it's earned it while calling them out when it has clearly not?

Oh, sure I can. I tend to buy the things I want and not buy the things I don't, which seems pretty darn sensible. Then again I wasn't exactly striving for a completely sensible post; grimdark bukkake isn't going to win many debates after all. Well, it isn't going to win many that aren't going to require a sad shower afterwards at least.

I don't have a problem that some people value things differently than I do. Heck, I'm not going to go out and buy Sigmar's Blood because I barely play Fantasy (I'd much rather play KoW.) I do have a problem with people running about, suggesting that people are engaging in some kind of corporate S&M just because they happen to buy something that's a bit overpriced. Hell, even if it was ridiculously overpriced I'd find it offensive. Perhaps I wouldn't find it so personally offensive if we were talking about the Ultimate Space Marine Codex for $250 because I have no interest in buying that myself, but really the principle is the same.

Ok I've been silent for a long time here on Dakka. I have to say I don't approve of GWs pricing, but there have been enough discussions cluttering the internet about this. The highprice tag is because of a few things. You get the Cyphers rules (usually like 3-4 dollars) the rules for the formation (another 4 bucks) and then the rules, stats, and completel wargear options for the Chosen. So it's essentially 3 of GWs releases in one. Now for the love of all that is pure and holy could we stop complaining about every single move GW makes? I know they tend to screw the players, but if you don't like it then please move on or at least stop ranting about all of it. On to the Rules:

Cypher has ATSKNF, Shrouded, Infiltrate, Eternal Warrior, Independent Character, fleet, and hit and run. I included the rules his wargear gave him as well. He can fire both pistols twice. Bolt pistol has 16" range and plasma 12". Plasma does not get hot. He also has lots of situational rules for playing against DA including buffing them and providing more VPs if he is killed or lives (for the respective sides). Also unless an enemy unit is within 6" of him when he is killed the opponent does not gain an victory points for him at all (including destroying the unit, first blood etc.) He also cannot be the Warlord and the warlord that has Cypher attached to his army suffers -1 LD. Then there is the rule about his attacks. Half(rouded down) are S4 AP5 and the lesser half are S7 AP2.

As for use, I think he's cool, good, and falls in line with most of the CSM characters. If you coupled him with Abby (making Chosen troops), you could have 3 5 man chosen units that are troops/scoring outflanking on to the board late in the game to obj grab/contest. Just tossing out initial ideas is all.

Yeah, shut your pie-holes, pay your money and keep insuring my dividend payments.

I don't get the joy here; he's just going to get mowed down by rapid fire before he gets within pistol range. Heck a Tau firewarrior squad with an ethereal nearby could do for him quite nicely in one turn.

 Lansirill wrote:
.
I don't have a problem that some people value things differently than I do. Heck, I'm not going to go out and buy Sigmar's Blood because I barely play Fantasy (I'd much rather play KoW.) I do have a problem with people running about, suggesting that people are engaging in some kind of corporate S&M just because they happen to buy something that's a bit overpriced. Hell, even if it was ridiculously overpriced I'd find it offensive. Perhaps I wouldn't find it so personally offensive if we were talking about the Ultimate Space Marine Codex for $250 because I have no interest in buying that myself, but really the principle is the same.

Fair enough. As I said, accusing people of "engaging in corporate S&M" is the tone I do not agree with. Likewise, I do not think equating someone lamenting a €13 pricetag on 30-odd pages of a digital publication with somebody engaging in "grimdark bukkake" if he doesn't ragequit the entire game is really helpful.

He suffers from a lack of an invulnerable save and no Independent Character, so he will die the instant someone focuses on him. However, if you can get him close, he will do his damage.

I initially balked at the price, but I'm awash in iTunes gift cards (Christmas and all) so I took the plunge. It's a ton of fluff, 6 missions, and the rules. I'm glad I got it, because it is a neat read, and I'm going to enjoy using him to grief Dark Angel players.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
He suffers from a lack of an invulnerable save and no Independent Character, so he will die the instant someone focuses on him. However, if you can get him close, he will do his damage.

I initially balked at the price, but I'm awash in iTunes gift cards (Christmas and all) so I took the plunge. It's a ton of fluff, 6 missions, and the rules. I'm glad I got it, because it is a neat read, and I'm going to enjoy using him to grief Dark Angel players.

He has Independent Character. So he can give ATSKNF, Shrouded, Hit & Run, and Infiltrate to a unit he is attached to.

He's BS 10, so... Manning a quadgun behind an ADL?

If the dataslate gets updated to make his pistols D-weapons, I'll shell out the cash for it.

 Kerrathyr wrote:
He's BS 10, so... Manning a quadgun behind an ADL?

Recording from Air-Control Tower #344-Y.
Voices of General Walters and Flight Captain Sanderson
"Sir!!!"
"What is it Flight Captain?"
"The entire third squadron! They're just... gone!"
"What do you mean gone, Captain?"
"They're all dead sir. Every last one of them."
"That's impossible. Those artillery boys have been hammering them for three straight months. They don't have rocks to throw at our jets, let alone an effective anti-air network."
"I know that sir, but it wasn't their AA network."
"Then what was it?"
"One man sir. One Space Marine."
"Preposterous!"
"Just one man, standing near a free-standing quad-gun. He just took out one plane after another."
"Well just throw more planes at him! If the Guard do it that way, the Navy can do it that way. Send 6th and 7th squadrons. Bomb him into oblivion."
"Yes General Walters. Right away."


Report Addendum: 6th and 7th Squadron were destroyed within the hour. General Walters was executed for gross misconduct. The remaining Navy personnel were recalled, but their ship was shot down by the same quad-runner. Imperial records no show the world as "heavy defended", as nothing can get near it without being shot down. May the Emperor grant us mercy!





Somehow I think putting Cypher on a gun turret would be a big... ignoble.

Honestly, all of you crying about the price are not looking at the content. It is not simply rules for one model. It is rule for cypher, rules for fallen, 6 new missions, and fluff. If you don't like the price don't buy it that is fine. That is capitalism. Demand and supply determine market price. They have predicted that demand would be high and they control the entire supply so they have set a high market price for a "premium" or "exclusive" item. Not buying it is not going to change their pricing because in a monopoly situation like we have here the owners of the supply can set whatever price they want.

rothrich wrote:
Honestly, all of you crying about the price are not looking at the content. It is not simply rules for one model. It is rule for cypher, rules for fallen, 6 new missions, and fluff. If you don't like the price don't buy it that is fine. That is capitalism. Demand and supply determine market price. They have predicted that demand would be high and they control the entire supply so they have set a high market price for a "premium" or "exclusive" item. Not buying it is not going to change their pricing because in a monopoly situation like we have here the owners of the supply can set whatever price they want.

I think people came for just the rules and were simply disappointed.

If that was strictly the case with the price and the rules for that price, I'd agree.

However, given the total package, it could be worth it.

Syphid wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
He suffers from a lack of an invulnerable save and no Independent Character, so he will die the instant someone focuses on him. However, if you can get him close, he will do his damage.

I initially balked at the price, but I'm awash in iTunes gift cards (Christmas and all) so I took the plunge. It's a ton of fluff, 6 missions, and the rules. I'm glad I got it, because it is a neat read, and I'm going to enjoy using him to grief Dark Angel players.

He has Independent Character. So he can give ATSKNF, Shrouded, Hit & Run, and Infiltrate to a unit he is attached to.

Not sure how I missed that. And since he is part of the Primary detachment rather than an ally, he can ride in a drop pod or a Stormraven.

 WarOne wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Both.

With GW, it is usually a lingerie of horrors.

I saw this one time, LOL Italy... giggity giggty gig it ty!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Allod wrote:

 Lansirill wrote:
.
I don't have a problem that some people value things differently than I do. Heck, I'm not going to go out and buy Sigmar's Blood because I barely play Fantasy (I'd much rather play KoW.) I do have a problem with people running about, suggesting that people are engaging in some kind of corporate S&M just because they happen to buy something that's a bit overpriced. Hell, even if it was ridiculously overpriced I'd find it offensive. Perhaps I wouldn't find it so personally offensive if we were talking about the Ultimate Space Marine Codex for $250 because I have no interest in buying that myself, but really the principle is the same.

Fair enough. As I said, accusing people of "engaging in corporate S&M" is the tone I do not agree with. Likewise, I do not think equating someone lamenting a €13 pricetag on 30-odd pages of a digital publication with somebody engaging in "grimdark bukkake" if he doesn't ragequit the entire game is really helpful.

as the old saying goes....

I don't think you know what your saying here.... BUT....


I'd honestly pay double the price of that book to see that.

 Kerrathyr wrote:
He's BS 10, so... Manning a quadgun behind an ADL?

Anything past BS5 on a Quad-gun is a waste since it already is Twin-Linked.

 pretre wrote:

 Kerrathyr wrote:
He's BS 10, so... Manning a quadgun behind an ADL?

Anything past BS5 on a Quad-gun is a waste since it already is Twin-Linked.

No such thing as too much firepower, I guess?

Does he come with a twin linked Custom Quad gun? Or was that a European twin linked custom Quad gun?

 Grot 6 wrote:
Does he come with a twin linked Custom Quad gun? Or was that a European twin linked custom Quad gun?

Am I missing something here?

rothrich wrote:
Not buying it is not going to change their pricing because in a monopoly situation like we have here the owners of the supply can set whatever price they want.

This is not true. Monopolies don't have to worry about competing products when making pricing decisions, but they still have to worry about price vs. demand. If the result of selling $15 "book" like this is that a couple of people buy it and everyone else pirates the rules or ignores it entirely then GW will have to lower the price until more people feel that it's a good enough deal to pay for the rules instead of stealing them.

(Of course that's assuming they're a sensible business. They might instead try raising the prices to extract more money from the few customers and give up on trying to make any sales from the pirates.)

Oh good god, I looked up the price for Cypher this morning on my iPad and its 20.99 Canadian. What the actual feth.... Its 67 ipad pages, which with pictures works out to less then 20. You can buy hundred page graphic novels for less that are full colour.

May Krampus fall upon GW this day.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Oh good god, I looked up the price for Cypher this morning on my iPad and its 20.99 Canadian.

What did you expect? Those 0s and 1s cost more in Canada.