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 tetrisphreak wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Perhaps I'm being unclear, but I feel the Sacrifice is the fact that Tyranids cannot use fortifications, or allies. Is that not enough? To me, that is a pretty major deal. Tyranids, instead of allying, just get an expanded FOC. That's your sacrifice.

Tyranids can use fortifications. Unless you're proposing removing that as well.

They can take them but cannot shoot the weapons that most people take them for.

Yes, this is what I meant.

Everyone in here complaining before we know what's being deliberately hidden from us. Codex will soon be here and we can commence complaining about how we can't run Taudar after that.

Personally I think we're gonna have DS or an equivalent to still allow us to be a turn 2 threat overload army while having enough backfield shooting to not auto lose against hell turkeys and cron air.

The Swarmy fluffy army will still be great at anything around 750 points and down.

 Sasori wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Perhaps I'm being unclear, but I feel the Sacrifice is the fact that Tyranids cannot use fortifications, or allies. Is that not enough? To me, that is a pretty major deal. Tyranids, instead of allying, just get an expanded FOC. That's your sacrifice.

Tyranids can use fortifications. Unless you're proposing removing that as well.

They can take them but cannot shoot the weapons that most people take them for.

Yes, this is what I meant.

Many weapons can automated fire... And the cover from things like an Aegis line is good.
Giving a Pyrovore Torrent (using the Promethium relay) makes them almost useful.
The new rules in the Stronghold Assault book that allow you to assault after disembarking from a building make for fun times with a huge Stealer horde.
Just saying - Fortifications are far more than just the manual fire guns.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Perhaps I'm being unclear, but I feel the Sacrifice is the fact that Tyranids cannot use fortifications, or allies. Is that not enough? To me, that is a pretty major deal. Tyranids, instead of allying, just get an expanded FOC. That's your sacrifice.

Tyranids can use fortifications. Unless you're proposing removing that as well.

They can take them but cannot shoot the weapons that most people take them for.

Yes, this is what I meant.

Many weapons can automated fire... And the cover from things like an Aegis line is good.
Giving a Pyrovore Torrent (using the Promethium relay) makes them almost useful.
The new rules in the Stronghold Assault book that allow you to assault after disembarking from a building make for fun times with a huge Stealer horde.
Just saying - Fortifications are far more than just the manual fire guns.

Right, but the internet told people they were only worthwhile to get the AA guns. Don't go showing us that a little trial-and-error can prove otherwise. Gamers in forums don't stand for logic like that!

rigeld2 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Perhaps I'm being unclear, but I feel the Sacrifice is the fact that Tyranids cannot use fortifications, or allies. Is that not enough? To me, that is a pretty major deal. Tyranids, instead of allying, just get an expanded FOC. That's your sacrifice.

Tyranids can use fortifications. Unless you're proposing removing that as well.

They can take them but cannot shoot the weapons that most people take them for.

Yes, this is what I meant.

Many weapons can automated fire... And the cover from things like an Aegis line is good.
Giving a Pyrovore Torrent (using the Promethium relay) makes them almost useful.
The new rules in the Stronghold Assault book that allow you to assault after disembarking from a building make for fun times with a huge Stealer horde.
Just saying - Fortifications are far more than just the manual fire guns.

I don't have stronghold assault, and it's not allowed in any tournament I go to, so I'm not aware some of these things.
It's good information to know.

That being said, It still doesn't solve the primary quandary that I have posted, which is not having access to allies, and if it is enough of a "Sacrifice" to allow an extra slot across the FOC for Tyranids by default.

Right, but the internet told people they were only worthwhile to get the AA guns. Don't go showing us that a little trial-and-error can prove otherwise. Gamers in forums don't stand for logic like that!

Or, perhaps as I have Acknowledged, did not have stronghold assault, and it's not allowed at any tournaments I frequent. There is no need to be a jerk like this for no reason, and it still fails to address the primary concern I have outlined.

That's the thing about allies - it's really extra slots for every army but nids. People talk about the HQ and Troop "tax" but is a buff crisis commander and a squad of kroot snipers really a "tax"? I don't think so. In the long run, armies utilizing allies get 1 extra elite, hq, fast, heavy, and 2 extra troops in a sub 2000 point game. This could be a huge boon to tyranids if they alter the FOC or allow self-allying like codex:SM.

So thanks to an internet outage, i've not kept up with this thread and have a LOT of reading to do. As such, can someone help me out with something?

I'm planning my "preorder" for when it goes live, and was wondering if the items I want would make a good core purchase. I've wanted to do 'Nids forever, and this will only be my 2nd 40k army, meaning I know the game, but not to an incredible degree.

I'm looking at getting...

- The codex
- The swarm/bundle thingie (assuming it is $170)
- A Tervigon (I love the idea of swarms and spawning more)
- A Terranofex
- A Exocrine

I'm not familiar with 'Nid FOC, but could all those make their way into a list? I know the Tervigon can be a troop choice when taken with Gaunts, which obviously I would be.

I also own about 30 Genestealers already, for what its worth.

Meanwhile, does any rumor suggest that Swarm bundle, etc... would be direct only, or will online resellers be selling this for the usual 25% off?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So thanks to an internet outage, i've not kept up with this thread and have a LOT of reading to do. As such, can someone help me out with something?

I'm planning my "preorder" for when it goes live, and was wondering if the items I want would make a good core purchase. I've wanted to do 'Nids forever, and this will only be my 2nd 40k army, meaning I know the game, but not to an incredible degree.

I'm looking at getting...

- The codex
- The swarm/bundle thingie (assuming it is $170)
- A Tervigon (I love the idea of swarms and spawning more)
- A Terranofex
- A Exocrine

I'm not familiar with 'Nid FOC, but could all those make their way into a list? I know the Tervigon can be a troop choice when taken with Gaunts, which obviously I would be.

I also own about 30 Genestealers already, for what its worth.

Meanwhile, does any rumor suggest that Swarm bundle, etc... would be direct only, or will online resellers be selling this for the usual 25% off?

It is currently impossible to give an estimate on what would be competitive, and good choices since the codex is not yet released, there hasn't been adequate testing involved.

That being said, I think the Swarm Bundle is great, a really good way to fill out your army.

The Exocrine looks to be competitive right now, and I would say the box itself is a reasonably safe buy. The chances of both options (The other being the Haruspex) being bad is pretty slim, but still possible.

The Plastic Hive Tyrant kit, is a really good kit as well. Tyrants will almost always be needed in a Tyranid army, and you get lots of great bits to go with it.

I would also say the Carnifex box is looking to be a good deal.

I've never complained to much about prices, as i'm new to the hobby and it was my choice to get involved. But if these prices are correct i'll be shelling out $300 for a single brood of carnifexs? And i was thinking of running two broods! But $600, I think i'll have to ebay them used.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So thanks to an internet outage, i've not kept up with this thread and have a LOT of reading to do. As such, can someone help me out with something?

I'm planning my "preorder" for when it goes live, and was wondering if the items I want would make a good core purchase. I've wanted to do 'Nids forever, and this will only be my 2nd 40k army, meaning I know the game, but not to an incredible degree.

I'm looking at getting...

- The codex
- The swarm/bundle thingie (assuming it is $170)
- A Tervigon (I love the idea of swarms and spawning more)
- A Terranofex
- A Exocrine

I'm not familiar with 'Nid FOC, but could all those make their way into a list? I know the Tervigon can be a troop choice when taken with Gaunts, which obviously I would be.
L
I also own about 30 Genestealers already, for what its worth.

Meanwhile, does any rumor suggest that Swarm bundle, etc... would be direct only, or will online resellers be selling this for the usual 25% off?

The Tervigon would be your only HQ choice there, so I would recommend picking up the Hive Tyrant kit as well. Other than that, it should be a reasonable solid core. Pending release.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
That's the thing about allies - it's really extra slots for every army but nids. People talk about the HQ and Troop "tax" but is a buff crisis commander and a squad of kroot snipers really a "tax"? I don't think so. In the long run, armies utilizing allies get 1 extra elite, hq, fast, heavy, and 2 extra troops in a sub 2000 point game. This could be a huge boon to tyranids if they alter the FOC or allow self-allying like codex:SM.

Yes, exactly!

Hopefully we'll know in a few days. This wait is killing me.

 Sasori wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
That's the thing about allies - it's really extra slots for every army but nids. People talk about the HQ and Troop "tax" but is a buff crisis commander and a squad of kroot snipers really a "tax"? I don't think so. In the long run, armies utilizing allies get 1 extra elite, hq, fast, heavy, and 2 extra troops in a sub 2000 point game. This could be a huge boon to tyranids if they alter the FOC or allow self-allying like codex:SM.

Yes, exactly!

Hopefully we'll know in a few days. This wait is killing me.

I sympasise.

 Rotary wrote:
I've never complained to much about prices, as i'm new to the hobby and it was my choice to get involved. But if these prices are correct i'll be shelling out $300 for a single brood of carnifexs? And i was thinking of running two broods! But $600, I think i'll have to ebay them used.

Not sure how you got to $300 for a single brood, as 2x3 Carnifexes would be $270 with the new 2-pack.

 Redemption wrote:

 Rotary wrote:
I've never complained to much about prices, as i'm new to the hobby and it was my choice to get involved. But if these prices are correct i'll be shelling out $300 for a single brood of carnifexs? And i was thinking of running two broods! But $600, I think i'll have to ebay them used.

Not sure how you got to $300 for a single brood, as 2x3 Carnifexes would be $270 with the new 2-pack.

I'm still curious if brood size stayed 1-3. With the box being a 2 pack, I'm wondering if it went 1-4.

 streamdragon wrote:

 Redemption wrote:

 Rotary wrote:
I've never complained to much about prices, as i'm new to the hobby and it was my choice to get involved. But if these prices are correct i'll be shelling out $300 for a single brood of carnifexs? And i was thinking of running two broods! But $600, I think i'll have to ebay them used.

Not sure how you got to $300 for a single brood, as 2x3 Carnifexes would be $270 with the new 2-pack.

I'm still curious if brood size stayed 1-3. With the box being a 2 pack, I'm wondering if it went 1-4.

I'm sure it's more along the lines of 'buy 2 boxes and build a 3 Fex brood along with Old One Eye.'

 streamdragon wrote:

 Redemption wrote:

 Rotary wrote:
I've never complained to much about prices, as i'm new to the hobby and it was my choice to get involved. But if these prices are correct i'll be shelling out $300 for a single brood of carnifexs? And i was thinking of running two broods! But $600, I think i'll have to ebay them used.

Not sure how you got to $300 for a single brood, as 2x3 Carnifexes would be $270 with the new 2-pack.

I'm still curious if brood size stayed 1-3. With the box being a 2 pack, I'm wondering if it went 1-4.

I'd imagine it stayed the same, judging from the battle report. And the fact that it will make you buy two boxes to have a full brood, and then you might as well buy a second box to make up that spare Carnifex into a full brood. That's how it works right right....?

 streamdragon wrote:

 Redemption wrote:

 Rotary wrote:
I've never complained to much about prices, as i'm new to the hobby and it was my choice to get involved. But if these prices are correct i'll be shelling out $300 for a single brood of carnifexs? And i was thinking of running two broods! But $600, I think i'll have to ebay them used.

Not sure how you got to $300 for a single brood, as 2x3 Carnifexes would be $270 with the new 2-pack.

I'm still curious if brood size stayed 1-3. With the box being a 2 pack, I'm wondering if it went 1-4.

I doubt it. If the only way to get a carnifex is via the two pack, then keeping the broods 1-3 ensures players will over-buy models and need to get additional kits.

Or forces them to eBay?

I'm not saying it can't stay at 1-3, but between third party sellers (which GW wants players to avoid I would think), and the big swarm box (which I'm sure GW wants us to buy) there are ways to get 3 Fexes instead of 2 or 4.

I was mostly thinking that the other medium to large boxes come in multiples that cap out at unit size. Warriors and raveners are boxes of 3 for 3-9 unit size, for instance. Gargoyles are 10 for 10-30.


Granted, the new gaunts are 20 for 10-30, so who knows.

Has anything been said that the old boxes disappear then? Could just be temporary bundle deals.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

 Redemption wrote:

 Rotary wrote:
I've never complained to much about prices, as i'm new to the hobby and it was my choice to get involved. But if these prices are correct i'll be shelling out $300 for a single brood of carnifexs? And i was thinking of running two broods! But $600, I think i'll have to ebay them used.

Not sure how you got to $300 for a single brood, as 2x3 Carnifexes would be $270 with the new 2-pack.

I'm still curious if brood size stayed 1-3. With the box being a 2 pack, I'm wondering if it went 1-4.

I doubt it. If the only way to get a carnifex is via the two pack, then keeping the broods 1-3 ensures players will over-buy models and need to get additional kits.

I thought GW was getting away from people over buying models, because it pissed us off so much, we just never ended up buying them.

So does this mean that $50 buck fexes are gonna start turning up on eBay.

How do people feel about the possibility of Hormies getting another attack with Scything Talons, combined with 3" extra move?

I know being able to run and attack would really be the deal breaker but as we are not sure about that yet, are Hormies still useless with an extra attack? Putting out 4 attacks each on the charge is a lot of dice with a 30 man squad for 150 pts...

I believe Horms are still weighing in at 9ppm before upgrades? If the scanned page was correct/legible?

Which would put 30 models at 270 points.

 streamdragon wrote:
I believe Horms are still weighing in at 9ppm before upgrades? If the scanned page was correct/legible?

Which would put 30 models at 270 points.

I believe it was 5 PPM before upgrades. 9 would have been a base increase of 3 ppm.

 streamdragon wrote:
I believe Horms are still weighing in at 9ppm before upgrades? If the scanned page was correct/legible?

Which would put 30 models at 270 points.

9 points each with toxin and adrenal glands isn't it?

 SHUPPET wrote:
How do people feel about the possibility of Hormies getting another attack with Scything Talons, combined with 3" extra move?

I know being able to run and attack would really be the deal breaker but as we are not sure about that yet, are Hormies still useless with an extra attack? Putting out 4 attacks each on the charge is a lot of dice with a 30 man squad for 150 pts...

Surprisingly enough, it still only amounts to 6.6 unsaved wounds on MEQs And that's if you can get all of them into close combat (Unlikely)

So.. yeah. This can be improved if you purchase Toxin Sacs/Adrenal glands, but I don't think it's worth it.

Sasori wrote:I believe it was 5 PPM before upgrades. 9 would have been a base increase of 3 ppm.

silverstu wrote:9 points each with toxin and adrenal glands isn't it?

Ah, my mistake.

Same cost in shoota Boyz would hit as hard wouldn't it? I really hope the rumour of STs giving a staight extra attack is true.

Regarding the comments about fortifications, has there been any rumor from a somewhat verified source that nids may somehow not be able to use fortifications?


After reading almost all of the content in the WD (scans, and the HD copy on youtube) I saw nothing in there to indicate any loss of fortification access.

I want to differentiate this just from the thought that "fortifications are not useful" to them, which is honestly, subjective.

I build a lot of terrain, and think that a nid skyshield with some big bugs sitting on it is just darn cool. Most of my nid/alien themed stuff has been smaller thus far, but if indeed the nids either get anything new or at least don't lose access to fortifications, then I will prolly be building some new stuff.