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 ductvader wrote:
Personally, I think that the level of disappointment with everything we see here is due to a large portion of the community not understanding how these effects and abilities are going to play out against all of the different units that can take them. We were just handed a million tools with a million more ways to use them. Those arifacts, gonna be boss on a kitted prime or tyrant. Psychic powers, toned down from what they were but with vastly increased range...which for nonwitchfire is huge...it means we'll actually use them instead of just charging. And the biomorphs, oh the biomorphs. Say hello to fleeting flying I10 S7 reroll 1's to hit reroll all to wounds, instant death on 6s Tyrant...oh and you can give him 4+ pseudo it will not die or poison if you want.

The spit too? Bound to be fairly cheap and a fantastic anti tau/eldar weapon. Did it need to be ap3 or 2? No, because bugs have never had a problem killing 2+ or 3+ sv armies.

There's a whole lot of potential that people are missing.

Look at the ymgarl relic...on a prime in a squad? Fantastic!

Really, more than making a coordinated argument, I just wanted to geek out a little bit at all the possibilities.

Imagine running gargoyles into a squad, blinding them...and coordinating rippers into assault at the same time...awesome.

If you get a prime with a squad of warriors and the ymgarls upgrade to charge, boost to T6 (assuming he is still T5 stock) and have him tank the small arms fire overwatch.

 ductvader wrote:
Broodlord with Acid Blood...not a bad buy! You either win challenges, or probably win in death.

Also, Horrify pretty much gives Genestealers their own version of grenades 50% of the time.

What does Acid Blood do now? Before it something that wasn't too impressive, iirc.

 xttz wrote:
For those saying Dominion is worthless... I see potentially useful as a late-game or emergency "oh gak" option. It's all fine saying good players should have full synapse coverage, but there are times when you can lose control of some of board through unexpected actions or some really lucky dice rolls for your opponent.
All it takes is an unexpected string of poor armour saves (we've all had those moments) and you can find key units now have to assault the wrong target or won't shoot where you want them to.

There's also apparently nothing to prevent Synapse extension stacking, so for example if they Swarmlord has kept his 18" range he could cover a potentially massive 24" or even 30" radius. Throw in his movement range and it could easily help recover from a disaster.

Or plunge enemy psykers into shadow on turn 1

 schadenfreude wrote:

 xttz wrote:
For those saying Dominion is worthless... I see potentially useful as a late-game or emergency "oh gak" option. It's all fine saying good players should have full synapse coverage, but there are times when you can lose control of some of board through unexpected actions or some really lucky dice rolls for your opponent.
All it takes is an unexpected string of poor armour saves (we've all had those moments) and you can find key units now have to assault the wrong target or won't shoot where you want them to.

There's also apparently nothing to prevent Synapse extension stacking, so for example if they Swarmlord has kept his 18" range he could cover a potentially massive 24" or even 30" radius. Throw in his movement range and it could easily help recover from a disaster.

Or plunge enemy psykers into shadow on turn 1

Synapse and Shadows haven't been confirmed to increase/decrease together.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Broodlord with Acid Blood...not a bad buy! You either win challenges, or probably win in death.

Also, Horrify pretty much gives Genestealers their own version of grenades 50% of the time.

What does Acid Blood do now? Before it something that wasn't too impressive, iirc.

A s5 ap2 hit on the unit that caused the wound.

toxic miasma is similar...a s5 ap2 attack instead of all your attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldercaveman wrote:
If you get a prime with a squad of warriors and the ymgarls upgrade to charge, boost to T6 (assuming he is still T5 stock) and have him tank the small arms fire overwatch.

True, but this only works for overwatch as it occurs during the assault phase, he doesn't get the T6 or if you choose, 2+ during any other phase.

Actually, T6 wouldn't matter as he's part of the unit...unless you separated him from the unit...charged with him to tank overwatch...and then safely charge with the warriors.

 ductvader wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Broodlord with Acid Blood...not a bad buy! You either win challenges, or probably win in death.

Also, Horrify pretty much gives Genestealers their own version of grenades 50% of the time.

What does Acid Blood do now? Before it something that wasn't too impressive, iirc.

A s5 ap2 hit on the unit that caused the wound.

toxic miasma is similar...a s5 ap2 attack instead of all your attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldercaveman wrote:
If you get a prime with a squad of warriors and the ymgarls upgrade to charge, boost to T6 (assuming he is still T5 stock) and have him tank the small arms fire overwatch.

True, but this only works for overwatch as it occurs during the assault phase, he doesn't get the T6 or if you choose, 2+ during any other phase.

Actually, T6 wouldn't matter as he's part of the unit...unless you separated him from the unit...charged with him to tank overwatch...and then safely charge with the warriors.

Sorry, yeah I meant separate him, I should have clarified that before.

 xttz wrote:
For those saying Dominion is worthless... I see potentially useful as a late-game or emergency "oh gak" option. It's all fine saying good players should have full synapse coverage, but there are times when you can lose control of some of board through unexpected actions or some really lucky dice rolls for your opponent.
All it takes is an unexpected string of poor armour saves (we've all had those moments) and you can find key units now have to assault the wrong target or won't shoot where you want them to.

There's also apparently nothing to prevent Synapse extension stacking, so for example if they Swarmlord has kept his 18" range he could cover a potentially massive 24" or even 30" radius. Throw in his movement range and it could easily help recover from a disaster.

This doesn't really change the fact that we just traded Iron Arm for an ability that is only useful at the rarest of times and even then would take a failed leadership roll and a bad roll on the IB table before you wished you had it in your arsenal.

And even then I'd probably be happier that I rolled Iron Arm.

I don't see how people aren't excited...so many new toys to be used in so many new ways on so many units.

And all it takes for a mob of genestealers or warriors to be awesome is one psyker to get catalyst.

People need to remember that the current meta consists of S7 Tau, S7 Marines, S7 Necrons and S6-7 Eldar

IG and DE are the only armies currently prepared for what's to come.

 ductvader wrote:
Personally, I think that the level of disappointment with everything we see here is due to a large portion of the community not understanding how these effects and abilities are going to play out against all of the different units that can take them. We were just handed a million tools with a million more ways to use them. Those arifacts, gonna be boss on a kitted prime or tyrant. Psychic powers, toned down from what they were but with vastly increased range...which for nonwitchfire is huge...it means we'll actually use them instead of just charging. And the biomorphs, oh the biomorphs. Say hello to fleeting flying I10 S7 reroll 1's to hit reroll all to wounds, instant death on 6s Tyrant...oh and you can give him 4+ pseudo it will not die or poison if you want.

The spit too? Bound to be fairly cheap and a fantastic anti tau/eldar weapon. Did it need to be ap3 or 2? No, because bugs have never had a problem killing 2+ or 3+ sv armies.

There's a whole lot of potential that people are missing.

Look at the ymgarl relic...on a prime in a squad? Fantastic!

Really, more than making a coordinated argument, I just wanted to geek out a little bit at all the possibilities.

Imagine running gargoyles into a squad, blinding them...and coordinating rippers into assault at the same time...awesome.

This is how it goes with every codex. People take a rumor, make it seem awful, and then embellish the heck out of that slant.

I like your points on this, by the way!

I'm pretty sure EVERY army is prepared for an expensive and easy to kill unit of genestealers.. Genestealers haven't been remotely scary since the days of stealer-shock.

Show me an army of genestealers and warriors and I'll show you someone who is about to get tabled.

 Kirasu wrote:
I'm pretty sure EVERY army is prepared for an expensive and easy to kill unit of genestealers.. Genestealers haven't been remotely scary since the days of stealer-shock.

Show me an army of genestealers and warriors and I'll show you someone who is about to get tabled.

But look really cool doing it

 brassangel wrote:
This is how it goes with every codex. People take a rumor, make it seem awful, and then embellish the heck out of that slant.

I like your points on this, by the way!

We aren't really talking about rumors. We are talking about scanned and BL posted pages of the actual codex. Please try to keep up.

 ductvader wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Broodlord with Acid Blood...not a bad buy! You either win challenges, or probably win in death.

Also, Horrify pretty much gives Genestealers their own version of grenades 50% of the time.

What does Acid Blood do now? Before it something that wasn't too impressive, iirc.

A s5 ap2 hit on the unit that caused the wound.

toxic miasma is similar...a s5 ap2 attack instead of all your attacks.

Toxic Miasma is One Use Only, s3 ap-, Poison that hits all models engaged with the toxic miasma creature. It has ignores cover as it's done in CC, but not a CC attack.

 ductvader wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Broodlord with Acid Blood...not a bad buy! You either win challenges, or probably win in death.

Also, Horrify pretty much gives Genestealers their own version of grenades 50% of the time.

What does Acid Blood do now? Before it something that wasn't too impressive, iirc.

A s5 ap2 hit on the unit that caused the wound.

toxic miasma is similar...a s5 ap2 attack instead of all your attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldercaveman wrote:
If you get a prime with a squad of warriors and the ymgarls upgrade to charge, boost to T6 (assuming he is still T5 stock) and have him tank the small arms fire overwatch.

True, but this only works for overwatch as it occurs during the assault phase, he doesn't get the T6 or if you choose, 2+ during any other phase.

Actually, T6 wouldn't matter as he's part of the unit...unless you separated him from the unit...charged with him to tank overwatch...and then safely charge with the warriors.

The new Yrmgarl does not add +1 to toughness (not that it matters in this case).

Its +1 attack, +1 strength, or +1 armor.

 ductvader wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
If you get a prime with a squad of warriors and the ymgarls upgrade to charge, boost to T6 (assuming he is still T5 stock) and have him tank the small arms fire overwatch.

True, but this only works for overwatch as it occurs during the assault phase, he doesn't get the T6 or if you choose, 2+ during any other phase.

Actually, T6 wouldn't matter as he's part of the unit...unless you separated him from the unit...charged with him to tank overwatch...and then safely charge with the warriors.

Toughness isn't an option its Sv, A or Str. Probably because they intend it to be 1 model in a group?

 streamdragon wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
This is how it goes with every codex. People take a rumor, make it seem awful, and then embellish the heck out of that slant.

I like your points on this, by the way!

We aren't really talking about rumors. We are talking about scanned and BL posted pages of the actual codex. Please try to keep up.

While his term "rumor" was incorrect, his point was still right on.

90% of the community right now leaning to that slant...and not seeing how great a ton of this stuff is.

Sure, it's all mediocre if we were running an army of MEQ, which is the lense many people unintentionally wear when looking at these facts...but how strong a weapon can you really allow a tyrant to have...on top of his access to other biomorphs?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thranriel wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
If you get a prime with a squad of warriors and the ymgarls upgrade to charge, boost to T6 (assuming he is still T5 stock) and have him tank the small arms fire overwatch.

True, but this only works for overwatch as it occurs during the assault phase, he doesn't get the T6 or if you choose, 2+ during any other phase.

Actually, T6 wouldn't matter as he's part of the unit...unless you separated him from the unit...charged with him to tank overwatch...and then safely charge with the warriors.

Toughness isn't an option its Sv, A or Str. Probably because they intend it to be 1 model in a group?

My bad on forgetting that, still, a Prime can tank a fair number of wounds with a 2+.

Regarding Onslaught... don't forget that FMC's can run 2D6" with it. This means you can not only put a Flyrant, Harpy or Crone into the enemy deployment zone on turn 1, but it can easily be beside/behind vehicles AND allowed to fire. Also Adrenal Glands means Fleet for (F)MC's. Throw it on your Flyrant to re-roll that 2D6".

6E means Flying Nidzilla...

 xttz wrote:
Regarding Onslaught... don't forget that FMC's can run 2D6" with it. This means you can not only put a Flyrant, Harpy or Crone into the enemy deployment zone on turn 1, but it can easily be beside/behind vehicles AND allowed to fire. Also Adrenal Glands means Fleet for (F)MC's. Throw it on your Flyrant to re-roll that 2D6".

6E means Flying Nidzilla...

I was just saying this on Natfka, Flying Daemons have nothing on this.

Eventually I think it'll even lead to the reduction (no, not elimination) in other MCs meta wide


Automatically Appended Next Post:
...or imagine getting warp lance on your flyrant...well I guess that depends on the whole ML1 v ML2 thing

 Thranriel wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
If you get a prime with a squad of warriors and the ymgarls upgrade to charge, boost to T6 (assuming he is still T5 stock) and have him tank the small arms fire overwatch.

True, but this only works for overwatch as it occurs during the assault phase, he doesn't get the T6 or if you choose, 2+ during any other phase.

Actually, T6 wouldn't matter as he's part of the unit...unless you separated him from the unit...charged with him to tank overwatch...and then safely charge with the warriors.

Toughness isn't an option its Sv, A or Str. Probably because they intend it to be 1 model in a group?

In that case he doesn't need to leave the unit, and can just tank the wounds on a 2+

 xttz wrote:
Regarding Onslaught... don't forget that FMC's can run 2D6" with it. This means you can not only put a Flyrant, Harpy or Crone into the enemy deployment zone on turn 1, but it can easily be beside/behind vehicles AND allowed to fire. Also Adrenal Glands means Fleet for (F)MC's. Throw it on your Flyrant to re-roll that 2D6".

6E means Flying Nidzilla...

To further expand on your (well-made) point, the entire Hive Mind psychic power table is maledictions and/or blessings, aside from Warp Blast. This means that whatever you roll on your Tyrants, Tervigons, etc you'll be able to cast these buffs/debuffs without forgoing your shooting attacks, as in the past. For example, - paroxysm used to take up one of the hive tyrants shooting attacks. Now, it's only a D3 modifier (but even WS3 marines need 5's to hit a tyrant, and on average they'll be WS2 if the power goes off). It's also got double the previous range (well +6" if you factor in movement speed of a walking tyrant, or the same range if you factor in a winged tyrant, but i digress). Catalyst - is great. FNP on 2 units for the price of one! Too bad it's not guaranteed on anything. The Horror - a -2 Ld check will pin most backfield units (Ld 7-8) quite frequently. Even if you can't assault the turn you debuff them, you're preventing that unit from firing effectively in the following turn (target tau markerlights, or snipers on a quad gun, etc). In fact the horror works great during a turn in which flyers are about to arrive - you can pin the enemy unit with interceptor and skyfire (riptides are LD9, and not fearless - you can pin them 50% of the time). Then they're only snapfiring at your reserves.

I'm cautiously optimistic about this book - it WILL come down to the abilities of the units themselves coupled with accurate point costs for what they're capable of. I want a Hive Tyrant that can take on a Daemon Prince (not necessarily the swarmlord) and I think with the right upgrades that can be made to happen. We will see. It's just a few more days now but i can't wait to start making lists and test-rolling some scenarios with this new book.

 xttz wrote:
Regarding Onslaught... don't forget that FMC's can run 2D6" with it. This means you can not only put a Flyrant, Harpy or Crone into the enemy deployment zone on turn 1, but it can easily be beside/behind vehicles AND allowed to fire. Also Adrenal Glands means Fleet for (F)MC's. Throw it on your Flyrant to re-roll that 2D6".

6E means Flying Nidzilla...

I like the idea of this and the AP4 flamer.

I can't help but be disappointed from the rumors/leaks so far. I just have to wait til I get it in my hands to make my final judgements.

Glad to see some people putting the bits together!

And we've yet to even see the fun of our "ordinary" units.

We still havnt seen anything that denies access to biomancy. So as it stands we probably still have access.

Backlash wrote:
We still havnt seen anything that denies access to biomancy. So as it stands we probably still have access.

When we see Bestiary entries for our Psyker units that's when we'll know.

"A Hive Tyrant generates psychic powers from the Hive Mind, Biomancy, and Telekinesis Tables" or "A BroodLord always has The Horror psychic power" etc

Backlash wrote:
We still havnt seen anything that denies access to biomancy. So as it stands we probably still have access.

Between reduced prices, uber IWND, and uber catalyst...we don't really need it...at all.

Hive Crone is T5 W5 4+, and his Drool cannon is AP4 with no Torrent. Thanks GW.

Backlash wrote:
We still havnt seen anything that denies access to biomancy. So as it stands we probably still have access.

From the description on the Psychic Cards, it leaves my confident that we will have some access to it. Whether it is just certain units, or a rule like the chaos psykers where you have to roll on Tyranid table, and then you may roll your rest of your powers on either.

 Redemption wrote:
Hive Crone is T5 W5 4+, and his Drool cannon is AP4 with no Torrent. Thanks GW.

Crone's abilities are supposed to be Vector Strike Oriented, Your Harpy is your gunbird.

 Redemption wrote:
Hive Crone is T5 W5 4+, and his Drool cannon is AP4 with no Torrent. Thanks GW.

Source? Do we have new pics up somewhere?