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Don't know why this double posted, please delete.

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
So, here's some fun maths about Mawlocs. Let's assume that it's managed to hit 6 guardsmen, who are looking to get splatted.

Wanna know the chance to mishap? 1-P(killing everything in 2 hits). P(killing a thing in 2 hits) is 29/36 (only snake eyes fails), so for 6, the chance at least ONE will live and cause a mishap is 1 - (29/36)^6. Or, in other words, about 72%. Yep, 72% chance to mishap assuming that your DS wasn't doing so anyway.

It turns out that the best defence against Mawlocs is to clump everything up, so that it almost always mishaps. Sure feels narrative in here.

Your math is way off. Just wanted to clear this up before someone latched on to it.

Odds of any one guardsmen (or any model with toughness less than 5 and no inv. save) surviving twice is 1/36, so P = 35/36 to kill, not 29/36.

So the odds that any one model would survive is 1-P^n

For 6 models, it's about 16%. Not the end of the world, but not the sure-fire trick it seems to be at first glance. Best defense against a Mawloc really is to bunch up, apparently.

Hitting 4 models is 11%, 8 models is 20%.

Within reason you're going to be looking at a 10-20% chance of mishapping any time you try to deep strike into an enemy unit, so be aware.

To be fair, if my Mawloc kills a bunch of units and then gets shoved back into ongoing reserves I would consider that a success!!! It is less likely to get shot to pieces next turn...

Am I reading the Spanish right, is it now 180pts for a Hive Tyrant with the Preferred Enemy bubble? And 210pts to throw on 2 TL devourers?

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
So, here's some fun maths about Mawlocs. Let's assume that it's managed to hit 6 guardsmen, who are looking to get splatted.

Wanna know the chance to mishap? 1-P(killing everything in 2 hits). P(killing a thing in 2 hits) is 29/36 (only snake eyes fails), so for 6, the chance at least ONE will live and cause a mishap is 1 - (29/36)^6. Or, in other words, about 72%. Yep, 72% chance to mishap assuming that your DS wasn't doing so anyway.

It turns out that the best defence against Mawlocs is to clump everything up, so that it almost always mishaps. Sure feels narrative in here.

Your math is way off. Just wanted to clear this up before someone latched on to it.

Odds of any one guardsmen (or any model with toughness less than 5 and no inv. save) surviving twice is 1/36, so 35/36 to kill, not 29/36.

So the odds that any one model would survive is 1-P^n

For 6 models, it's about 16%. Not the end of the world, but not the sure-fire trick it seems to be at first glance. Best defense against a Mawloc really is to bunch up, apparently.

Hitting 4 models is 11%, 8 models is 20%.

Within reason you're going to be looking at a 10-20% chance of mishapping any time you try to deep strike into an enemy unit, so be aware.

Ah nuts, you're right, for some reason I got it into my head that it was like TL 6's (so 7/36). Still, the change really sucks - vehicles basically become an immovable object, even AV10 open topped ones. Meh.

Shingen wrote:

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

Shingen wrote:
My Spanish is pretty poor but is there anything about the prime being attached to Shrikes e.g. can you give him wings? Are they are option in the wargear / upgrades / biomorphs sections?

3x Carnifex with 2x Talons, Toxin Sacs, Bioplasma (if it can still take it) and a prime with a lashwhip sounds like fun. Especially with frag spines, you might actually be able to kill something...!

The Prime's WS and BS are shared with Warriors and Shrikes it joined, which is odd since there's no way to give it wings.
Bio-plasma is the same, but lashwhips don't slow enemies down so I don't know what your plan is

Lash Whips dont lower Initiative anymore?

+3 init for the user

Eyjio wrote:

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
So, here's some fun maths about Mawlocs. Let's assume that it's managed to hit 6 guardsmen, who are looking to get splatted.

Wanna know the chance to mishap? 1-P(killing everything in 2 hits). P(killing a thing in 2 hits) is 29/36 (only snake eyes fails), so for 6, the chance at least ONE will live and cause a mishap is 1 - (29/36)^6. Or, in other words, about 72%. Yep, 72% chance to mishap assuming that your DS wasn't doing so anyway.

It turns out that the best defence against Mawlocs is to clump everything up, so that it almost always mishaps. Sure feels narrative in here.

Your math is way off. Just wanted to clear this up before someone latched on to it.

Odds of any one guardsmen (or any model with toughness less than 5 and no inv. save) surviving twice is 1/36, so 35/36 to kill, not 29/36.

So the odds that any one model would survive is 1-P^n

For 6 models, it's about 16%. Not the end of the world, but not the sure-fire trick it seems to be at first glance. Best defense against a Mawloc really is to bunch up, apparently.

Hitting 4 models is 11%, 8 models is 20%.

Within reason you're going to be looking at a 10-20% chance of mishapping any time you try to deep strike into an enemy unit, so be aware.

Ah nuts, you're right, for some reason I got it into my head that it was like TL 6's (so 7/36). Still, the change really sucks - vehicles basically become an immovable object, even AV10 open topped ones. Meh.

The ideal option is to deep strike twice, misshap then go back into reserve.

NamelessBard wrote:
Is there any reason to run Ravengers over Shrikes in this edition?

They don't have synapse, can't take biomorphs and have a worse stat line. All for the Beast over Flying.

Raveners have +1A base, can have rending, have 1 more Init, Move Through Cover, and can add the Red Terror. So if you're expecting to fight lots of Init 4 opponents and would like Rending and more attacks, then Raveners have a place.

Interesting to note that devgaunts kept the same stat line but the cost dropped by 2....

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

Shingen wrote:

 B0B MaRlEy wrote:

Shingen wrote:
My Spanish is pretty poor but is there anything about the prime being attached to Shrikes e.g. can you give him wings? Are they are option in the wargear / upgrades / biomorphs sections?

3x Carnifex with 2x Talons, Toxin Sacs, Bioplasma (if it can still take it) and a prime with a lashwhip sounds like fun. Especially with frag spines, you might actually be able to kill something...!

The Prime's WS and BS are shared with Warriors and Shrikes it joined, which is odd since there's no way to give it wings.
Bio-plasma is the same, but lashwhips don't slow enemies down so I don't know what your plan is

Lash Whips dont lower Initiative anymore?

+3 init for the user

Well that sucks donkey cock.

NamelessBard wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
So, here's some fun maths about Mawlocs. Let's assume that it's managed to hit 6 guardsmen, who are looking to get splatted.

Wanna know the chance to mishap? 1-P(killing everything in 2 hits). P(killing a thing in 2 hits) is 29/36 (only snake eyes fails), so for 6, the chance at least ONE will live and cause a mishap is 1 - (29/36)^6. Or, in other words, about 72%. Yep, 72% chance to mishap assuming that your DS wasn't doing so anyway.

It turns out that the best defence against Mawlocs is to clump everything up, so that it almost always mishaps. Sure feels narrative in here.

Your math is way off. Just wanted to clear this up before someone latched on to it.

Odds of any one guardsmen (or any model with toughness less than 5 and no inv. save) surviving twice is 1/36, so 35/36 to kill, not 29/36.

So the odds that any one model would survive is 1-P^n

For 6 models, it's about 16%. Not the end of the world, but not the sure-fire trick it seems to be at first glance. Best defense against a Mawloc really is to bunch up, apparently.

Hitting 4 models is 11%, 8 models is 20%.

Within reason you're going to be looking at a 10-20% chance of mishapping any time you try to deep strike into an enemy unit, so be aware.

Ah nuts, you're right, for some reason I got it into my head that it was like TL 6's (so 7/36). Still, the change really sucks - vehicles basically become an immovable object, even AV10 open topped ones. Meh.

The ideal option is to deep strike twice, misshap then go back into reserve.

And the non-ideal is to mishap twice then instantly die or get stuck in a far away part of the board, meaning you need to retunnel. It's too much of a risk IMO.

Eyjio wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
So, here's some fun maths about Mawlocs. Let's assume that it's managed to hit 6 guardsmen, who are looking to get splatted.

Wanna know the chance to mishap? 1-P(killing everything in 2 hits). P(killing a thing in 2 hits) is 29/36 (only snake eyes fails), so for 6, the chance at least ONE will live and cause a mishap is 1 - (29/36)^6. Or, in other words, about 72%. Yep, 72% chance to mishap assuming that your DS wasn't doing so anyway.

It turns out that the best defence against Mawlocs is to clump everything up, so that it almost always mishaps. Sure feels narrative in here.

Your math is way off. Just wanted to clear this up before someone latched on to it.

Odds of any one guardsmen (or any model with toughness less than 5 and no inv. save) surviving twice is 1/36, so 35/36 to kill, not 29/36.

So the odds that any one model would survive is 1-P^n

For 6 models, it's about 16%. Not the end of the world, but not the sure-fire trick it seems to be at first glance. Best defense against a Mawloc really is to bunch up, apparently.

Hitting 4 models is 11%, 8 models is 20%.

Within reason you're going to be looking at a 10-20% chance of mishapping any time you try to deep strike into an enemy unit, so be aware.

Ah nuts, you're right, for some reason I got it into my head that it was like TL 6's (so 7/36). Still, the change really sucks - vehicles basically become an immovable object, even AV10 open topped ones. Meh.

The ideal option is to deep strike twice, misshap then go back into reserve.

And the non-ideal is to mishap twice then instantly die or get stuck in a far away part of the board, meaning you need to retunnel. It's too much of a risk IMO.

Not for 140 pts it isnt, considering you only die on 1/6 chance?

 xttz wrote:
Am I reading the Spanish right, is it now 180pts for a Hive Tyrant with the Preferred Enemy bubble? And 210pts to throw on 2 TL devourers?

If you mean Old Adversary, it only affects himself.

What happened to twin swords on warriors (yes I know there not to good now but I've a load of the old ones and and I'm curious).

Some thoughts on double Tyrant, Dual Devourers with Wings.

These are still potentially durable.
You have 4 rolls to get Catalyst which would grant both FNP as long as they stay within 12 of each other.

Also looks like they are BS 4 now so more dakka.

So Mawlocs coming down and blopping twice, mishapping and can blop twice again if they roll 4-6 to come in next turn? That work?

 easysauce wrote:
ork dedicated shooting units are also bs 3,

thats how it works in CC oriented armies,

your weakness, ie shooting, even on its best troops, works out to about average,

your WS, I, toughness, speed, ect are all higher throughout the army because its a CC army.

But they were BS4. And now they're not. And they're more expensive. How does this make any sense?

Skullhammer wrote:
What happened to twin swords on warriors (yes I know there not to good now but I've a load of the old ones and and I'm curious).

From what I remember there's not any advantage on taking twin boneswords over lashwhips/boneswords except cost any more ...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
ork dedicated shooting units are also bs 3,

thats how it works in CC oriented armies,

your weakness, ie shooting, even on its best troops, works out to about average,

your WS, I, toughness, speed, ect are all higher throughout the army because its a CC army.

But they were BS4. And now they're not. And they're more expensive. How does this make any sense?

ork warbosses used to be bs 4 too... now they are bs2...

orks are supposedly one of the best CC fighters... bred by the old ones to fight... yet they have bad I, no AP weapons save for the claw at I 1, they have no force weapons, no ID weapons, ect ect ect

did I mention the horrible I value?

I cant really comment on the PT's to value cost, you sure they didnt gain ANYTHING? was was the pts difference? they lose anything besisdes BS?

Skullhammer wrote:
What happened to twin swords on warriors (yes I know there not to good now but I've a load of the old ones and and I'm curious).

You can not get 2 pairs of boneswords.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nem wrote:
So Mawlocs coming down and blopping twice, mishapping and can blop twice again if they roll 4-6 to come in next turn? That work?

Yes.

NamelessBard wrote:
Is there any reason to run Ravengers over Shrikes in this edition?

They don't have synapse, can't take biomorphs and have a worse stat line. All for the Beast over Flying.

There was never a reason to really run either of those, so it's a pretty easy choice!

HQ
Flyrant, Dual Devourers 230
Flyrant, Dual Devourers 230

Troops
Termagants 40
Termagants 40
Termagants 40
Termagants 40

Fast Attack
Hive Crone 155
Hive Crone 155
Hive Crone 155

Heavy
Mawloc 140
Mawloc 140
Mawloc 140

1505

stupid 5 points :(

skarsol wrote:

Skullhammer wrote:
What happened to twin swords on warriors (yes I know there not to good now but I've a load of the old ones and and I'm curious).

You can not get 2 pairs of boneswords.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nem wrote:
So Mawlocs coming down and blopping twice, mishapping and can blop twice again if they roll 4-6 to come in next turn? That work?

Yes.

Thanks. Potential kamikaze just makes it more exciting.

Iechine wrote:English or Russian please. :(

That's why Spanish is the best language to study And, hey, I thought there were a fair few spanish speakers in the US, it's more useful for you!

Onto what I'm thinking, I'm thinking of running a Prime w/ Obliterax attached to a horde of Hormagaunts and shrouded by a Venomthrope some Zoans and maybe Tervigon/Termagaunts. Probably some outflanking Devilgaunts because they're so cheap. I'll use a Flyrant for anti-air since the new ones don't look so great, and a Lictor with some deep striking Mawlocs. Backed up by an Exocrine.

Looking like the following

Flyrant ~280
Prime ~ 180
10 Devilgants = 80
10 Termagants = 40
20 Termagants = 80
25 Hormagaunts w/ TS = 200 (TS is 3pts in that pic, right?)
Lictor = 50
2 Zoans = 100
Venomthrope = 45
2 Mawlocs = 280
Exocrine = 170

~ 1500pts

May be able to keep it under, or just add some biomorhps and/or Tervigon to take it to 1750.

I think, with Mawlocs, Exocrines, Biovores and Carnifex (multiples of which are more than viable) the Heavy Support slot is going to be extremely crowded and its going to be tough to decide what to fill it with, kind of like the Elites in the current book (or should I be calling that the old book now?)

 easysauce wrote:
ork warbosses used to be bs 4 too... now they are bs2...

You say that as if it were a good thing, or even an acceptable thing.

 easysauce wrote:
orks are supposedly one of the best CC fighters... bred by the old ones to fight... yet they have bad I, no AP weapons save for the claw at I 1, they have no force weapons, no ID weapons, ect ect ect

did I mention the horrible I value?

I cant really comment on the PT's to value cost, you sure they didnt gain ANYTHING? was was the pts difference? they lose anything besisdes BS?

And Orks are terrible. I don't see what point you're making here.

So lets go through this wonderful release;

* No 2+ armour saves for Hive Tyrants except an artefact which can only be used every other turn
* Some units no longer in synapse eat themselves, meaning suicide for low leadership units
* The loss of Ymargl Genestealers, Spores, the Doom of Malantai, the parasite of mortex,
* The Pyrovore is still garbage
* A bunch of meh artefacts
* The loss of Biomancy

And lets sum this up, the codex has gotten even worse with this recent edition. This is the kind of thing that makes me think GW's writers despise it's fanbase. I mean, the Tyranids do now have the honour of being the army which has got terrible updates two times in a row.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
ork warbosses used to be bs 4 too... now they are bs2...

You say that as if it were a good thing, or even an acceptable thing.

 easysauce wrote:
orks are supposedly one of the best CC fighters... bred by the old ones to fight... yet they have bad I, no AP weapons save for the claw at I 1, they have no force weapons, no ID weapons, ect ect ect

did I mention the horrible I value?

I cant really comment on the PT's to value cost, you sure they didnt gain ANYTHING? was was the pts difference? they lose anything besisdes BS?

And Orks are terrible. I don't see what point you're making here.

Poor Orks... rest in peace 5th ed speed freaks army.

 Imposter101 wrote:
So lets go through this wonderful release;

* No 2+ armour saves for Hive Tyrants except an artefact which can only be used every other turn
* Some units no longer in synapse eat themselves, meaning suicide for low leadership units
* The loss of Ymargl Genestealers, Spores, the Doom of Malantai, the parasite of mortex,
* The Pyrovore is still garbage
* A bunch of meh artefacts
* The loss of Biomancy

And lets sum this up, the codex has gotten even worse with this recent edition.

But some things are cheaper... so... umm... great news?

 Imposter101 wrote:
So lets go through this wonderful release;

* No 2+ armour saves for Hive Tyrants except an artefact which can only be used every other turn
* Some units no longer in synapse eat themselves, meaning suicide for low leadership units
* The loss of Ymargl Genestealers, Spores, the Doom of Malantai, the parasite of mortex,
* The Pyrovore is still garbage
* A bunch of meh artefacts
* The loss of Biomancy

And lets sum this up, the codex has gotten even worse with this recent edition.

If you only look at the bad stuff. Yeah.
If you look at everything, no.

If you only care to play HT and Tervies, your screwed. For everyone else, its a change, which looks pretty good overall.

Not saying I won't miss things, just that they were not everything. Biomancy for example, its great when you actually roll out Iron Arm, and then actually get a +3. Somehow I manage to survive when I don't though so (Crazy right?)... Yeaaaah... Losing MS is bad. I will go to WHW, and sit there with a sign making it known our displeasure.

 Nem wrote:

If you only care to play HT and Tervies, your screwed. For everyone else, its a change, which looks pretty good overall.

Actually, they are still the best (or close to) units in the codex.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Imposter101 wrote:
So lets go through this wonderful release;

* No 2+ armour saves for Hive Tyrants except an artefact which can only be used every other turn
* Some units no longer in synapse eat themselves, meaning suicide for low leadership units
* The loss of Ymargl Genestealers, Spores, the Doom of Malantai, the parasite of mortex,
* The Pyrovore is still garbage
* A bunch of meh artefacts
* The loss of Biomancy

And lets sum this up, the codex has gotten even worse with this recent edition.

But some things are cheaper... so... umm... great news?

And those cheaper things got worse typically.. yay for the win.