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Jifel, couldn't you in theory take one of the longer fortifications like say the firestorm redoubt (which has automated fire so the nids don't have to worry about manning the weapons) or even the fortress of redemption. Turn it sideways, put an escape hatch 12 inches even further.

Then infiltrate. Deploy within 6 inches of disembarking and you will have cleared the entire middle of the board on turn 1 with your genestealers.

Its gamey, but it would be hilarious to see. Remember guys "its just beer and pretzels" so seeing someone come up with such a clever trick is "all in good fun".

If it does work ill have to try it.

CinciWarBoss wrote:
Havent seen these pictures on Dakka yet. Someone posted this on /r/warhammer40k a few hours ago. http://imgur.com/a/8w57g

Everyone complaining that the book is underpowered needs to take a breather and actually read it. Its not Tau or Eldar (thank god) but its plenty competitive. 2 top tier flyers, Exocrine gets BS 4 if it sits still and fires 6 str 7 ap 2 shots (!!!). Haruspex is arguably a better troop blender than death company dreadnought.

....Yeeeeah....Top tier fliers? T5 4+ fliers are top tier? You know a quadgun will be killing one a turn more than likely. Nothing about either of the fliers is remotely top tier, hell I don't really see a reason to play either of them. Stand still and fire plasma guns like a space marine! Woohoo! It has to move to get into that 24" range, missing half of its shoots as it does, even with BS 4 it is still only hitting 4 times. The best way to use it is as its blast template and that is still just "okay" in the current 40k meta. Haruspex...did you even read it? If so, read it again. ONLY on the charge does it generate its bonus attacks. Even then at WS3...I want to like the Haruspex but it only has 3 attacks, 4 on the charge, then it will more than likely see a return of about 2 or 3 of those attacks so it is getting, what, 7ish attacks on the charge? Next turn it just sits there and makes its 3 attacks at WS 3 until the unit tarpitting it.

At the beginning of each turn, units that are outside the range of friendly Synapse creatures must take a Leadersip test unless they are: engaged in combat, falling back, have gone to ground or arrived from reserve this turn...

Is going to ground a way to make backfield, objective camping termagants?

madmanrambler wrote:


Hey, didn't mean to hit a nerve there. I realize its frustrating with all the discussion about narratives and beer N pretzels, but you and I don't have to bring that discussion into the debate. Lets keep it purely rules focused, eh? Besides, you're helping me figure out how to refine the horror and get it to work better.

Alright, so servo skulls are stopping the infiltrate. For the sake of discussion, lets keep the sure bet of genestealers and a broodlord for the sakes of discussing the horror. So, I've still got a 24" bubble that could seriously mess a shooting units day up. I'll admit, its not the best deal for 130 points, but it's going to be our only real source of assault grenades. 7 T4 wounds to chew through, with 2 of them being on a 4+ armor save. How much firepower would have to be devoted to kill that? Probably 2 tac squads, if we're assuming space marines...
Can you list off the ignore covers stuff? I'm aware of the divination psychic power, thunderfire cannons with barrage, and LRRs along with all flamers, but thats all I really know for SM and most imperium. I guess legion of the damned?

Last bit wasn't at you, sorry. It was at other dude talking about "Yo man, let's just have fun, bro." When I can take an army of Stealers, Warriors, and Ravagers and have it not be a pile of suck, yea, I'd agree.

Keep in mind that Xenos can ally with the Inquisition. So Tau/Eldar/Orks/Necrons can also bring the servo skulls of doom. Only Chaos and Nids cannot ally with them. I agree that it's the only form of assault grenades which makes me very sad. It should be just straight up some sort of pheramone or speed or something that just says "acts as assault grenades".

I think a lot of things will still chew through genestealers. I could bring a unit of grav bikes in SM. I could shoot some gravy guns and some TL bolters. Determining on who's up front, I would say either take the AP5 shots first or AP2. Yes, the gravity needs 5s to wound, but them's the breaks. I don't need many. And Venomthropes, unless they are now ICs or some special antitargeting rule die very, very quickly. by not being able to go to ground, their cover save will be lackluster meaning an amount of S8 volleys will kill it. I did that routinely with wolves ( I don't play them anymore ). I could see using Scouting melta guns to do this now with sisters and Draigowing wouldn't care. My new Eldar, I'd have to think about because I'm not spamming wave serpents, wraithknights, warp spidres, and Jetseer.

Just realized GK must fear Nids a lot now. SiTW + Horror = hello GK unit with Ld 4-5.

I know tons of people have theirs but not sure if anyone scanned them. I got to read one till the shop closed. They wouldn't let me take it though. At least I got to read it.

 TheKbob wrote:

CinciWarBoss wrote:
Havent seen these pictures on Dakka yet. Someone posted this on /r/warhammer40k a few hours ago. http://imgur.com/a/8w57g

Everyone complaining that the book is underpowered needs to take a breather and actually read it. Its not Tau or Eldar (thank god) but its plenty competitive. 2 top tier flyers, Exocrine gets BS 4 if it sits still and fires 6 str 7 ap 2 shots (!!!). Haruspex is arguably a better troop blender than death company dreadnought.

What's the two top tier flyers?

You don't mean the two that can be almost instant killed by a single quad gun, right? If you fail a grounding test, you can murder one in a turn. Give Stronghold assault and the ability to have multiple Bastions/Aegis Lines and getting allies with Fast Shot, High BS, etc., you could readily have a list that drops them as soon as they come on. This is without air support.

I'd hate to see what a squad of intercepting broadsides does to one...

Im not going to do the math hammer, but common sense says there is VERY little chance that quad gun "instant kills" harpy/cron. Generously it hits 3-4 times, wounds 2-3 times, jinks 1-2 of those wounds and has a 1/3 chance of taking another by falling. Good thing it has 5 wounds and can take 4+ regeneration, a torrent weapon to roast the gunners and a str 8 vector strike.

Why does a FMC care about intercepting broadsides? Start on the board in glide mode.

 l0k1 wrote:
Also, for those who look down on casual gamers, perhaps YOU are the ones that should move on to different game/hobby. If winning, obtaining prizes, and being super competitive is THAT important to you then perhaps you should play Magic. The game offers much more for people like you.

To appropriately answer all the bs about prizes and super competitive (?) you've just write, I'd have to tell you to go make a casual battle with your friends where you make loud gun sounds and just push each other's models off the table and leave rules discussion to people that want actual substance in their games. Should be easy you don't care anyway, it's all good.

 TheKbob wrote:


Last bit wasn't at you, sorry. It was at other dude talking about "Yo man, let's just have fun, bro." When I can take an army of Stealers, Warriors, and Ravagers and have it not be a pile of suck, yea, I'd agree.

Keep in mind that Xenos can ally with the Inquisition. So Tau/Eldar/Orks/Necrons can also bring the servo skulls of doom. Only Chaos and Nids cannot ally with them. I agree that it's the only form of assault grenades which makes me very sad. It should be just straight up some sort of pheramone or speed or something that just says "acts as assault grenades".

I think a lot of things will still chew through genestealers. I could bring a unit of grav bikes in SM. I could shoot some gravy guns and some TL bolters. Determining on who's up front, I would say either take the AP5 shots first or AP2. Yes, the gravity needs 5s to wound, but them's the breaks. I don't need many. And Venomthropes, unless they are now ICs or some special antitargeting rule die very, very quickly. by not being able to go to ground, their cover save will be lackluster meaning an amount of S8 volleys will kill it. I did that routinely with wolves ( I don't play them anymore ). I could see using Scouting melta guns to do this now with sisters and Draigowing wouldn't care. My new Eldar, I'd have to think about because I'm not spamming wave serpents, wraithknights, warp spidres, and Jetseer.

I don't know about lackluster cover saves, stick a bunch of hormagaunts in front of a venomthrope and you've got 3+ cover.
Still, it doesn't exactly look ideal, I'd have to risk. I'm curious, why would you use the grav guns period? Just to ensure that Broodlord doesn't get a save? seems a bit excessive, especially considering that, based on how I built my army, those grav guns could do Jack diddily for the rest of the match except for picking on the occasional synapse creature.
EDIT not to say I'm planning to build a horde army. Just pointing out that Tyranids might go gaunt spam, and I'm curious as to why you'd go with grav guns.

And I don't know about not being able to run a viable army of Warriors, again, stick them behind a wall of gaunts, stick some venomthropes with them, you've got 3+ cover. not ideal mind you, but its certainly better than last edition.

And Venomthropes don't look to be ICs and they look to be shootable, so I guess they won't be performing amazingly well. sad to see.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
You still can't cast maledictions out of firing ports, or launch an assault on the top of Turn 1 if you infiltrate.

That means you can't Horror from inside the Bastion, and if you want to Infiltrate into it for a first turn assault, you have to go second, which means someone gets to roll up and assault the bastion with frag grenades, killing all your genestealers. Or you go first, pop out and are left standing their with your cheese in the wind, waiting to take a round of bolter fire to the face.

 jifel wrote:


Not bad, but I can do better.

Put a bastion, exit facing forward, on the edge of your table half. Infiltrate inside. Turn 1 (or 2 if you have first turn) jump out 6" and you're now 6" past the halfway point before your opponent has a shot on you. Oh, but there's Firing slits so your broodlord can cast a power first. Did I mention that you can assault after disembarking from a Bastion? Put 20 in there. I don't care what the internet says, I don't care what logic says. Get 20 genestealers that close to your opponent that fast untouched and they will crap themselves. Heck, slap a Venomthrope inside the bastion afterwards and leave a trail of Stealers so they get shrouded if they fail the charge. Really, just f*** with your opponents head. This codex isn't an auto win, but both Tau and Eldar have a MAJOR lack of ranged anti Bastion.

Good point on the Maledictions through fire slits though. And frankly, no one will run up towards a bastion to assault it when there's a full Tyranid army barrelling down on them.

Jump the Stealers out whenever you choose to, but your opponent has a massive "GTFO" zone in the middle of the board now, and a gunline/balanced army will avoid it like the plague. This allows you to control the center of the board while your army runs up in Venom cover too. Is it game-breaking? No. Will it scare your opponent, surprise him, and force him to react to you? Yes. Tyranids have always won through fear tactics, positioning and board control. In an objective game, that's how we will do it. This codex is not a gift from the Design team that we may crush all before us without thought or tactics.

CinciWarBoss wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

CinciWarBoss wrote:
Havent seen these pictures on Dakka yet. Someone posted this on /r/warhammer40k a few hours ago. http://imgur.com/a/8w57g

Everyone complaining that the book is underpowered needs to take a breather and actually read it. Its not Tau or Eldar (thank god) but its plenty competitive. 2 top tier flyers, Exocrine gets BS 4 if it sits still and fires 6 str 7 ap 2 shots (!!!). Haruspex is arguably a better troop blender than death company dreadnought.

What's the two top tier flyers?

You don't mean the two that can be almost instant killed by a single quad gun, right? If you fail a grounding test, you can murder one in a turn. Give Stronghold assault and the ability to have multiple Bastions/Aegis Lines and getting allies with Fast Shot, High BS, etc., you could readily have a list that drops them as soon as they come on. This is without air support.

I'd hate to see what a squad of intercepting broadsides does to one...

Im not going to do the math hammer, but common sense says there is VERY little chance that quad gun "instant kills" harpy/cron. Generously it hits 3-4 times, wounds 2-3 times, jinks 1-2 of those wounds and has a 1/3 chance of taking another by falling. Good thing it has 5 wounds and can take 4+ regeneration, a torrent weapon to roast the gunners and a str 8 vector strike.

Why does a FMC care about intercepting broadsides? Start on the board in glide mode.

What are you going to hide it behind? It being on a flyer base means it will likely will always stick out. It's Flamer isn't torrent so your 24" move likely won't get you in range of the quad troop.

If you don't get first turn it could die before it touches a thing.

If you force the Crone to jink to get cover, it doesn't get to fire it's torrent weapon, then it's already wounded and now in the center of my army. I will fire random chaff at it like storm bolters until it splats on the ground and waste it with bolter fire.

Impressive. Almost as much as what I've done to Hive Tyrants (drop them with storm bolters / multi laser / HB on vehicles and then shoot Exorcists and Meltaguns at them when they crash and burn.)

But maybe 3 crones for saturation. Then you're just playing flyer spam and that's ever so exciting... *sigh*. Why couldn't Warriors be good for once?

Still a lot of people defending the codex with false info.

The horror does not modify leadership. It's a pinning test with a -2 penalty.

The drool cannon on the crone is not a torrent weapon.

Like I said earlier there's a lot of optimists who haven't properly assimilated a the info yet. Prolly some pessimists as well to be fair. Waiting it out now is the best bet.

Everyone has formed their opinions and results will shape opinions more than someone on the Internet.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

CinciWarBoss wrote:
Havent seen these pictures on Dakka yet. Someone posted this on /r/warhammer40k a few hours ago. http://imgur.com/a/8w57g

Everyone complaining that the book is underpowered needs to take a breather and actually read it. Its not Tau or Eldar (thank god) but its plenty competitive. 2 top tier flyers, Exocrine gets BS 4 if it sits still and fires 6 str 7 ap 2 shots (!!!). Haruspex is arguably a better troop blender than death company dreadnought.

....Yeeeeah....Top tier fliers? T5 4+ fliers are top tier? You know a quadgun will be killing one a turn more than likely. Nothing about either of the fliers is remotely top tier, hell I don't really see a reason to play either of them. Stand still and fire plasma guns like a space marine! Woohoo! It has to move to get into that 24" range, missing half of its shoots as it does, even with BS 4 it is still only hitting 4 times. The best way to use it is as its blast template and that is still just "okay" in the current 40k meta. Haruspex...did you even read it? If so, read it again. ONLY on the charge does it generate its bonus attacks. Even then at WS3...I want to like the Haruspex but it only has 3 attacks, 4 on the charge, then it will more than likely see a return of about 2 or 3 of those attacks so it is getting, what, 7ish attacks on the charge? Next turn it just sits there and makes its 3 attacks at WS 3 until the unit tarpitting it.

5 wounds, 4+ regen, str 8 vector strike, torrent weapons, homing missiles, less than 175 points, what flyer is better? The exocrine is a more durable, more versatile, slower version of the annihilation barge. Are you honestly arguing that 6 str 7 ap 2 shots isn't awesome? I agree that the haruspex might suffer from slow and big disease but it is still very killy and I can imagine it will regenerate like crazy. regenerating 3 wounds a turn on a t6 3+ model is no joke. I think it will see use, maybe not in the power gaming scene though.

CinciWarBoss wrote:
Havent seen these pictures on Dakka yet. Someone posted this on /r/warhammer40k a few hours ago. http://imgur.com/a/8w57g

Nice rules on Volatile! Haha


For those that haven't seen it:

Every unit on the board takes a number of S3 hits equal to the models within 1d6".

CinciWarBoss wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:


5 wounds, 4+ regen, str 8 vector strike, torrent weapons, homing missiles, less than 175 points, what flyer is better? The exocrine is a more durable, more versatile, slower version of the annihilation barge. Are you honestly arguing that 6 str 7 ap 2 shots isn't awesome? I agree that the haruspex might suffer from slow and big disease but it is still very killy and I can imagine it will regenerate like crazy. regenerating 3 wounds a turn on a t6 3+ model is no joke. I think it will see use, maybe not in the power gaming scene though.

You mean a unit that will get to vector strike the second turn it moves, have S5 missiles that can glance vehicles real good, NO torrent weapon, and has to hide in reserve or be blasted off the table first turn?

Here's a fun fact about regen. You can't do it if your dead. A good general will focus fire on a wounded model until dead unless otherwise not tactically sound (meaning something else needs to die).

Wait... so the rumor of the Harpy and Crone not being able to be grounded is also false, or is that still up in the air?

Because if that's the case, nevermind a quad gun. Someone can just biomancy its toughness down, ground it, and watch it splat like a water balloon when it hits dirt.

CinciWarBoss wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

CinciWarBoss wrote:
Havent seen these pictures on Dakka yet. Someone posted this on /r/warhammer40k a few hours ago. http://imgur.com/a/8w57g

Everyone complaining that the book is underpowered needs to take a breather and actually read it. Its not Tau or Eldar (thank god) but its plenty competitive. 2 top tier flyers, Exocrine gets BS 4 if it sits still and fires 6 str 7 ap 2 shots (!!!). Haruspex is arguably a better troop blender than death company dreadnought.

....Yeeeeah....Top tier fliers? T5 4+ fliers are top tier? You know a quadgun will be killing one a turn more than likely. Nothing about either of the fliers is remotely top tier, hell I don't really see a reason to play either of them. Stand still and fire plasma guns like a space marine! Woohoo! It has to move to get into that 24" range, missing half of its shoots as it does, even with BS 4 it is still only hitting 4 times. The best way to use it is as its blast template and that is still just "okay" in the current 40k meta. Haruspex...did you even read it? If so, read it again. ONLY on the charge does it generate its bonus attacks. Even then at WS3...I want to like the Haruspex but it only has 3 attacks, 4 on the charge, then it will more than likely see a return of about 2 or 3 of those attacks so it is getting, what, 7ish attacks on the charge? Next turn it just sits there and makes its 3 attacks at WS 3 until the unit tarpitting it.

5 wounds, 4+ regen, str 8 vector strike, torrent weapons, homing missiles, less than 175 points, what flyer is better? The exocrine is a more durable, more versatile, slower version of the annihilation barge. Are you honestly arguing that 6 str 7 ap 2 shots isn't awesome? I agree that the haruspex might suffer from slow and big disease but it is still very killy and I can imagine it will regenerate like crazy. regenerating 3 wounds a turn on a t6 3+ model is no joke. I think it will see use, maybe not in the power gaming scene though.

Here's the kicker. Pretty much your entire view of the rules are wrong.

There is no torrent on the crone.
Homing mean re-roll to hit against flyers and FMC.
A quad guy by a BS4 person will hit with an 8 of 9 shots, wound 5 of 6 times. You'll have to then jink and can't use your flamer.
Haruspex can only regen 1 wound due to his rules, not 3. It could be two if it charged and bought regen for 30 points.

CinciWarBoss wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

CinciWarBoss wrote:
Havent seen these pictures on Dakka yet. Someone posted this on /r/warhammer40k a few hours ago. http://imgur.com/a/8w57g

Everyone complaining that the book is underpowered needs to take a breather and actually read it. Its not Tau or Eldar (thank god) but its plenty competitive. 2 top tier flyers, Exocrine gets BS 4 if it sits still and fires 6 str 7 ap 2 shots (!!!). Haruspex is arguably a better troop blender than death company dreadnought.

....Yeeeeah....Top tier fliers? T5 4+ fliers are top tier? You know a quadgun will be killing one a turn more than likely. Nothing about either of the fliers is remotely top tier, hell I don't really see a reason to play either of them. Stand still and fire plasma guns like a space marine! Woohoo! It has to move to get into that 24" range, missing half of its shoots as it does, even with BS 4 it is still only hitting 4 times. The best way to use it is as its blast template and that is still just "okay" in the current 40k meta. Haruspex...did you even read it? If so, read it again. ONLY on the charge does it generate its bonus attacks. Even then at WS3...I want to like the Haruspex but it only has 3 attacks, 4 on the charge, then it will more than likely see a return of about 2 or 3 of those attacks so it is getting, what, 7ish attacks on the charge? Next turn it just sits there and makes its 3 attacks at WS 3 until the unit tarpitting it.

5 wounds, 4+ regen, str 8 vector strike, torrent weapons, homing missiles, less than 175 points, what flyer is better? The exocrine is a more durable, more versatile, slower version of the annihilation barge. Are you honestly arguing that 6 str 7 ap 2 shots isn't awesome? I agree that the haruspex might suffer from slow and big disease but it is still very killy and I can imagine it will regenerate like crazy. regenerating 3 wounds a turn on a t6 3+ model is no joke. I think it will see use, maybe not in the power gaming scene though.

Meh while I agree that the Crone isn't bad.. but as far as flyers go Heldrake is cheaper and better. Demon Princes are better, necron lyers are better, even in our own codex the Flyrant is better

Stormtalons are better (and can kill a crone in one go, btw), Storm Ravens are better, Vendetta are better. I'd even take the Eldar/Dark Eldar flyers.

At this point, a Sunshark Bomber even.

 DexKivuli wrote:

At the beginning of each turn, units that are outside the range of friendly Synapse creatures must take a Leadersip test unless they are: engaged in combat, falling back, have gone to ground or arrived from reserve this turn...

Is going to ground a way to make backfield, objective camping termagants?

I caught that too. The thing is I think you can only go to ground if being shot at. If the opponent isn't stupid they can just not shoot at that unit and wait for them to inevitably run off the board.

CinciWarBoss wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

CinciWarBoss wrote:
Havent seen these pictures on Dakka yet. Someone posted this on /r/warhammer40k a few hours ago. http://imgur.com/a/8w57g

Everyone complaining that the book is underpowered needs to take a breather and actually read it. Its not Tau or Eldar (thank god) but its plenty competitive. 2 top tier flyers, Exocrine gets BS 4 if it sits still and fires 6 str 7 ap 2 shots (!!!). Haruspex is arguably a better troop blender than death company dreadnought.

....Yeeeeah....Top tier fliers? T5 4+ fliers are top tier? You know a quadgun will be killing one a turn more than likely. Nothing about either of the fliers is remotely top tier, hell I don't really see a reason to play either of them. Stand still and fire plasma guns like a space marine! Woohoo! It has to move to get into that 24" range, missing half of its shoots as it does, even with BS 4 it is still only hitting 4 times. The best way to use it is as its blast template and that is still just "okay" in the current 40k meta. Haruspex...did you even read it? If so, read it again. ONLY on the charge does it generate its bonus attacks. Even then at WS3...I want to like the Haruspex but it only has 3 attacks, 4 on the charge, then it will more than likely see a return of about 2 or 3 of those attacks so it is getting, what, 7ish attacks on the charge? Next turn it just sits there and makes its 3 attacks at WS 3 until the unit tarpitting it.

5 wounds, 4+ regen, str 8 vector strike, torrent weapons, homing missiles, less than 175 points, what flyer is better? The exocrine is a more durable, more versatile, slower version of the annihilation barge. Are you honestly arguing that 6 str 7 ap 2 shots isn't awesome? I agree that the haruspex might suffer from slow and big disease but it is still very killy and I can imagine it will regenerate like crazy. regenerating 3 wounds a turn on a t6 3+ model is no joke. I think it will see use, maybe not in the power gaming scene though.

Seriously...are you even reading responses to your post? You are posting so much false information I don't even know what leaks you are reading.

1. Crone does not have a torrent weapon, has 4 homing missles that are S5 with Haywire and can only shoot 2 a turn. Regen is one wound a turn on a 4+ which is nice, but isn't going to help when a quad gun, which is TL, is probably going to get 4 hits a turn on it, wounding on anything but, forcing a jink. Plus, as with all FMCs, it is easy as hell to ground them and it gets no save unlike Daemon Princes, so just chuck some bolter fire at it, ground it, finish it off.

2. 6 S7 Ap2 shots is not awesome, it is alright. I can take a Vet squad for IG that can do pretty much the same thing and be more mobile but less resilient but be so much cheaper. The Exocrine is the BEST thing about the new codex, I wont bad mouth it but it isn't as great as so many people are trying to prop it up to some level that it isn't.

3. How is the Haruspex regening 3 wounds a turn? As far as I can see you can get one back from CC and one from regen. If I am recalling correctly it's ability to regain wounds is limited to one a turn, if it ISN'T it is never going to deal 3 wounds a turn. It is hitting 50% of the time in the first place so 1 or 2 wounds a turn at best.

NamelessBard wrote:
Here's the kicker. Pretty much your entire view of the rules are wrong.

That is called optimism now, at least by folk who think "competition" is a dirty word to be feared.

 Roci wrote:

CinciWarBoss wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

CinciWarBoss wrote:
Havent seen these pictures on Dakka yet. Someone posted this on /r/warhammer40k a few hours ago. http://imgur.com/a/8w57g

Everyone complaining that the book is underpowered needs to take a breather and actually read it. Its not Tau or Eldar (thank god) but its plenty competitive. 2 top tier flyers, Exocrine gets BS 4 if it sits still and fires 6 str 7 ap 2 shots (!!!). Haruspex is arguably a better troop blender than death company dreadnought.

What's the two top tier flyers?

You don't mean the two that can be almost instant killed by a single quad gun, right? If you fail a grounding test, you can murder one in a turn. Give Stronghold assault and the ability to have multiple Bastions/Aegis Lines and getting allies with Fast Shot, High BS, etc., you could readily have a list that drops them as soon as they come on. This is without air support.

I'd hate to see what a squad of intercepting broadsides does to one...

Im not going to do the math hammer, but common sense says there is VERY little chance that quad gun "instant kills" harpy/cron. Generously it hits 3-4 times, wounds 2-3 times, jinks 1-2 of those wounds and has a 1/3 chance of taking another by falling. Good thing it has 5 wounds and can take 4+ regeneration, a torrent weapon to roast the gunners and a str 8 vector strike.

Why does a FMC care about intercepting broadsides? Start on the board in glide mode.

What are you going to hide it behind? It being on a flyer base means it will likely will always stick out. It's Flamer isn't torrent so your 24" move likely won't get you in range of the quad troop.

If you don't get first turn it could die before it touches a thing.

Every model in the game can die before it does anything if you don't get first turn. It is still a very good flyer with a low price. Compare it to a stormraven, which is much more expensive, far less durable, and must start in reserves. Hide it behind your venomthrope for shrouded. I would rather that than have to worry about rolling it out of reserves. Target saturation is a good thing.

You can now start a Storm Raven on a Skyshield first turn with a 4++ save (thanks, Stronghold!)

Venomthropes are eating up your elite slot now and are easy targets for anything that ignores cover.

Read pretty much every book out there right now has it.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

CinciWarBoss wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

CinciWarBoss wrote:
Havent seen these pictures on Dakka yet. Someone posted this on /r/warhammer40k a few hours ago. http://imgur.com/a/8w57g

Everyone complaining that the book is underpowered needs to take a breather and actually read it. Its not Tau or Eldar (thank god) but its plenty competitive. 2 top tier flyers, Exocrine gets BS 4 if it sits still and fires 6 str 7 ap 2 shots (!!!). Haruspex is arguably a better troop blender than death company dreadnought.

....Yeeeeah....Top tier fliers? T5 4+ fliers are top tier? You know a quadgun will be killing one a turn more than likely. Nothing about either of the fliers is remotely top tier, hell I don't really see a reason to play either of them. Stand still and fire plasma guns like a space marine! Woohoo! It has to move to get into that 24" range, missing half of its shoots as it does, even with BS 4 it is still only hitting 4 times. The best way to use it is as its blast template and that is still just "okay" in the current 40k meta. Haruspex...did you even read it? If so, read it again. ONLY on the charge does it generate its bonus attacks. Even then at WS3...I want to like the Haruspex but it only has 3 attacks, 4 on the charge, then it will more than likely see a return of about 2 or 3 of those attacks so it is getting, what, 7ish attacks on the charge? Next turn it just sits there and makes its 3 attacks at WS 3 until the unit tarpitting it.

5 wounds, 4+ regen, str 8 vector strike, torrent weapons, homing missiles, less than 175 points, what flyer is better? The exocrine is a more durable, more versatile, slower version of the annihilation barge. Are you honestly arguing that 6 str 7 ap 2 shots isn't awesome? I agree that the haruspex might suffer from slow and big disease but it is still very killy and I can imagine it will regenerate like crazy. regenerating 3 wounds a turn on a t6 3+ model is no joke. I think it will see use, maybe not in the power gaming scene though.

Seriously...are you even reading responses to your post? You are posting so much false information I don't even know what leaks you are reading.

1. Crone does not have a torrent weapon, has 4 homing missles that are S5 with Haywire and can only shoot 2 a turn. Regen is one wound a turn on a 4+ which is nice, but isn't going to help when a quad gun, which is TL, is probably going to get 4 hits a turn on it, wounding on anything but, forcing a jink. Plus, as with all FMCs, it is easy as hell to ground them and it gets no save unlike Daemon Princes, so just chuck some bolter fire at it, ground it, finish it off.

2. 6 S7 Ap2 shots is not awesome, it is alright. I can take a Vet squad for IG that can do pretty much the same thing and be more mobile but less resilient but be so much cheaper. The Exocrine is the BEST thing about the new codex, I wont bad mouth it but it isn't as great as so many people are trying to prop it up to some level that it isn't.

3. How is the Haruspex regening 3 wounds a turn? As far as I can see you can get one back from CC and one from regen. If I am recalling correctly it's ability to regain wounds is limited to one a turn, if it ISN'T it is never going to deal 3 wounds a turn. It is hitting 50% of the time in the first place so 1 or 2 wounds a turn at best.

I was talking about the harpy, but I went back and looked about the torrent. I was reading acid spray not drool cannon, my bad on the torrent thing. I still argue that it is a very good flyer for low cost compared to comparable flyers. Saying that it can be killed by a quad gun is irrelevant to that argument. Every flyer can be killed by dedicated anti air. If you are worried about it, kill the quad gun before it comes on. That hasn't changed since 6th edition was released and is irrelevant to whether the tyranid flyers are good. (IMO)

I think we will have to wait and see on the exocrine front. I would much rather fight vets who are are a glass hammer.

I got 3 wound regen from: 1 from "gulp" special rule on its shooting tongue. 2 from causing a wound in melee (doesn't even say unsaved wound). 3 form 4+ regen.

Since we have so many tyranid experts, we know what happens when an army with cheap disposable transports plants them in front of a walking haruspex?

You blow up one and walk over it...

The same way I blow up rhinos and drive my rhinos over their wrecks...

 TheKbob wrote:
You can now start a Storm Raven on a Skyshield first turn with a 4++ save (thanks, Stronghold!)

Venomthropes are eating up your elite slot now and are easy targets for anything that ignores cover.

Read pretty much every book out there right now has it.

Stormraven and a landing pad are ~300 points. That is 2 harpys. This argument that venomthropes are not good because some small number of units ignore cover is silly. You could just as easily argue that monstrous creatures are not good because some models have force weapons. Hey guys, nobody take MC's, Paladins can take Daemon hammers. Pack in the whole codex, game over. Nobody take power armor troops, the helldrake has an ap 3 torrent weapon. Nobody take land raiders, IG have melta spam. In fact, if you are not running 2++ rerollable seer councils you are a noob and should be embarrassed. Oh wait. there are D weapons now. Nobody take that it has a weakness. Lets all only take revenants.

 TheKbob wrote:
You can now start a Storm Raven on a Skyshield first turn with a 4++ save (thanks, Stronghold!)

Venomthropes are eating up your elite slot now and are easy targets for anything that ignores cover.

Read pretty much every book out there right now has it.

Tau have it.

Eldar have it on one common gun, the Serpent Shield.

"Pretty much every"? What about (Sm, CSM, DA, BA, Daemons, DE, Crons, Orks Sisters, Nids) which don't have that much or any ignores cover. Solution? Simple. Put it in a Bastion. Tau are bad against Bastions, sorry. So are Eldar. Killed it with another army? Great, its in the ruins with a 2++ cover.

PS Venoms eating up slots? What the heck else are we putting in there? Elites took a collective shot to the crotch, minus Venomthropes. Hive Guard are possibly meh and Lictors are curiosity inducing at best, otherwise, no. Venoms are our best Elite now.

There is a bit too much negativity. Yes some units sucked, no its not what we wanted, yes its frustrating. But heck I'm not giving up on the book! I feel like the only one throwing out tactics and ideas here. And even if it is a bad book, what? It's the one we got. I'm not a quitter, I'll stick to the book. I'll enjoy bucking the trend if I must, because this book isn't Dead on Arrival. Sure its wounded, but we're Nids! Put some thought into it, and it'll Regen.

 IcedAnimals wrote:
Jifel, couldn't you in theory take one of the longer fortifications like say the firestorm redoubt (which has automated fire so the nids don't have to worry about manning the weapons) or even the fortress of redemption. Turn it sideways, put an escape hatch 12 inches even further.

Then infiltrate. Deploy within 6 inches of disembarking and you will have cleared the entire middle of the board on turn 1 with your genestealers.

Its gamey, but it would be hilarious to see. Remember guys "its just beer and pretzels" so seeing someone come up with such a clever trick is "all in good fun".

If it does work ill have to try it.

You still can't assault out of an escape hatch, so your genestealers miraculously appear within rapid fire range and get shot into little tiny pieces.. The only thing that makes it less terrible than Outflanking them is not having to eat the round of Interceptor fire when you arrive.