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So escalation, lord of skulls.

Sit it on a skyshield, then grimore of true names.

Someone please tell me you still need permission to use superheavies.

Would it even fit on a skyshield?

you need permission to use escalation, yes. Then you need to dig the lord of skulls out of your own face after your opponent rams it in there.

xruslanx wrote:
you need permission to use escalation, yes. Then you need to dig the lord of skulls out of your own face after your opponent rams it in there.

did you buy the book and does it state that this is an expansion or a supplement?

if it's an expansion then you require permission

if it's a supplement then you have no choice in the matter

as for your choice of words, you are obviously one of those who are opposed to super heavies coming into the game.

personally I am all for it as it makes generating any form of unstoppable meta impossible due to the level of variance that this opens up.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 troa wrote:
Would it even fit on a skyshield?

most likely not, ergo it wouldn't be able to be deployed on one so the OP's issue is moot.

xruslanx wrote:
you need permission to use escalation, yes.

Not based on what I've seen so far.

It does fit btw, even with the shields up.

 insaniak wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
you need permission to use escalation, yes.

Not based on what I've seen so far.

assuming you have any social skills whatsoever, you should probably make sure it's cool with your opponent before slapping your super heavy down on the table. Regardless of whether or not the rulebook explicitly states it, your opponent needs to be cool with you having a super heavy in your list or he simply won't play you.

 nutty_nutter wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
you need permission to use escalation, yes. Then you need to dig the lord of skulls out of your own face after your opponent rams it in there.

did you buy the book and does it state that this is an expansion or a supplement?

if it's an expansion then you require permission

if it's a supplement then you have no choice in the matter.

You always have a choice, you can refuse to play anybody for any reason.

Might shrink the number of people you have to play against, but it's not like you are forced to play the game.

and refusal to play the game just because you weren't expecting a super heavy to show up is exactly the same as saying; 'I don't like Space Marines, so I'm not playing you'.

instead of fear mongering or getting your panties in a twist become inventive on getting rid of those point sinks that are the superheavies.

I don't know how much experience you have with the super heavies but the general principal is that they are overcosted and come with more than enough drawbacks to make the plus points difficult to justify.

super heavy walkers for instance can be tied up the entire match just by assaulting them with hormogaunts. yea the gaunts cant hurt it, but that walker isn't doing any shooting.

the heavy tanks are points sinks that can be as easy for crons to glance to death as any other tanks, and the armour isn't any thicker than a land raider.

 nutty_nutter wrote:
and refusal to play the game just because you weren't expecting a super heavy to show up is exactly the same as saying; 'I don't like Space Marines, so I'm not playing you'.

And no different than saying "I'm tired of Grey Knights, I'm not playing you" or "I'm tired of [insert whatever]-spam, I'm not playing you".

People refusing to play against something that they don't like is nothing new. Acting like they have no choice but to play against something is just outright false.

How about: "They have no rules-based justification to refuse."

xruslanx wrote:
assuming you have any social skills whatsoever, you should probably make sure it's cool with your opponent before slapping your super heavy down on the table. Regardless of whether or not the rulebook explicitly states it, your opponent needs to be cool with you having a super heavy in your list or he simply won't play you.

Right. So what you're saying isn't that you need permission, you just need an opponent who wants to play against your army. That's not exclusive to Escalation... it's the case for any game.

 Dracos wrote:
How about: "They have no rules-based justification to refuse."

except the name of the game is to have fun.

So yes, The Lord of Skulls can get a 2+ Invul save (and can do so with the normal tricks that a Screamer Star uses anyway, which would make it mobile).

Then the whole point becomes moot when you hit it with a Destroyer weapon.

 Dracos wrote:
How about: "They have no rules-based justification to refuse."

Pg. 108: The Army List: ...of course, players are free to either adapt the army lists or use their own system as they wish.

So I have a rule-based justification for using a system that includes "none of those guys".

Both in Escalation and Stronghold Assault books have a paragraph that reads the rules within the book are optional, not mandatory and that both players should agree to use the rules prior to the game. So if you say "yes" to escalation, then you may be looking at a 2+ Lord of Skulls.

 insaniak wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
assuming you have any social skills whatsoever, you should probably make sure it's cool with your opponent before slapping your super heavy down on the table. Regardless of whether or not the rulebook explicitly states it, your opponent needs to be cool with you having a super heavy in your list or he simply won't play you.

Right. So what you're saying isn't that you need permission, you just need an opponent who wants to play against your army. That's not exclusive to Escalation... it's the case for any game.

The difference between a escalation and normal army lists is that most gamers are used to playing against other armies, they probably aren't used to fighting super heavies. Not everyone has ten sterngaurds with combi meltas to-hand, and not everyone would enjoy such a battle. Sure some people would, which is why they'd say yes. But you can t honestly say that fighting a battle with a super heavy involved is not an experience outside of the norms of 40k for most players.

I think this argument seems especially apt in a thread proposing giving a 2++ save to a super-heavy. It may be beatable but it's a whole different level than what most people play at.

Unholyllama wrote:Both in Escalation and Stronghold Assault books have a paragraph that reads the rules within the book are optional, not mandatory and that both players should agree to use the rules prior to the game. So if you say "yes" to escalation, then you may be looking at a 2+ Lord of Skulls.

Are you sure? Because that's not what has been said elsewhere, including on the GW Digital Editions Facebook page.

xruslanx wrote:The difference between a escalation and normal army lists is that most gamers are used to playing against other armies, they probably aren't used to fighting super heavies..

Probably because up until now it wasn't legal to take Super Heavies in regular games of 40K...

It doesn't fething matter. TOs will decide what can be used. If you're not in a tournament and you don't want to play against super heavy models. Please don't. This is a hobby. EveryOne on here trying to argue you have to play against them is wrong.[MOD EDIT - please find a different way to express yourself that also stays within the rules of the site - thanks. - Alpharius]

Grow up. There is no right and wrong. Unless it's a tournament not one person has to do anything.


Also why is this is YMTC.

Look over your opponents list. You think it's cheese or lame. Walk away. Myself I love more options. I run Swarmlord and three Trygons and eat Abaddon and Bloodthurster. Don't be a Nancy. Play and win.

The book is a 40k supplement and unless someone can give a page number, i see nothing that says this book is optional.

There is, however, several advantages given to your opponent if you decide to use one of the new Lords of War units.

 insaniak wrote:

Unholyllama wrote:Both in Escalation and Stronghold Assault books have a paragraph that reads the rules within the book are optional, not mandatory and that both players should agree to use the rules prior to the game. So if you say "yes" to escalation, then you may be looking at a 2+ Lord of Skulls.

Are you sure? Because that's not what has been said elsewhere, including on the GW Digital Editions Facebook page.

I just researched through my escalation book and you are correct: the detachment is optional but it does not say the rules that are contained in the book are. The book does not say supplement nor expansion so who knows on that argument.

My rule of thumb is that if you bring a lord of war detachment, make sure you bring the book for your opponent to review and that you inform them that there is a new warlord table for them to roll on if they choose.

 Unholyllama wrote:
The book does not say supplement nor expansion so who knows on that argument.

Back cover, bottom.

Stormbreed wrote:
It doesn't fething matter. TOs will decide what can be used. If you're not in a tournament and you don't want to play against super heavy models. Please don't. This is a hobby. EveryOne on here trying to argue you have to play against them is wrong

Nobody is trying to argue that you have to play against them.

But if they're a standard part of the game, then peope are going to show up to standard games with them.

 nutty_nutter wrote:
and refusal to play the game just because you weren't expecting a super heavy to show up is exactly the same as saying; 'I don't like Space Marines, so I'm not playing you'.

instead of fear mongering or getting your panties in a twist become inventive on getting rid of those point sinks that are the superheavies.

I don't know how much experience you have with the super heavies but the general principal is that they are overcosted and come with more than enough drawbacks to make the plus points difficult to justify.

super heavy walkers for instance can be tied up the entire match just by assaulting them with hormogaunts. yea the gaunts cant hurt it, but that walker isn't doing any shooting.

the heavy tanks are points sinks that can be as easy for crons to glance to death as any other tanks, and the armour isn't any thicker than a land raider.

Not sure if you're bit about the gaunts is true, unless I'm mistaken units must be able to inflict some kind of damage on a target or they cannot charge it. Unless you just worded it funny and gaunts actually do have a chance to wound a superheavy, like maybe on 6+?

 insaniak wrote:

Stormbreed wrote:
It doesn't fething matter. TOs will decide what can be used. If you're not in a tournament and you don't want to play against super heavy models. Please don't. This is a hobby. EveryOne on here trying to argue you have to play against them is wrong

Nobody is trying to argue that you have to play against them.

But if they're a standard part of the game, then peope are going to show up to standard games with them.

Show up to what standard game?

"Hey I'm here to play against people I don't know" "Here is my army list"......................... Person 2 says, see yea later!

"Hey Geoff "GW Guy" I wanna run this"................................. Geoff says no......

There is no such thing as a standard game......


100% at no point will anyone be forced to play against something they don't want to, other then in a tournament which they pay to join and then they can STFU about the rules because they paid to join.

I've played against super heavies before in regular games, but my opponent has scrupulously avoided D weapons out of courtesy. Challenging fights but not insurmountable with a usual "all comers" list.

This supplement is a bit misguided since not every army has ready access to plastic super heavies and I'm not about to touch FW resin again after my barracuda experience; I have more money than hobby time to waste on fixing terrible casting and non-existent quality control.

The Tau in particular got a flier with an Ion Cannon and gun drones, not a useful counter to any super heavies on the field and particularly nothing that can't be found elsewhere in the army; leaving out the heavy railgun variant of the tigershark was a very poor decision. The dark eldar get the eldar titan? That smacks of laziness since they don't have any super heavies of their own. And so on.

Escalation is a book of accessing super heavies with the lions share being available to IG because the other armies lack their own. If you're going to do this sort of thing as a company, at least support it properly. Two stars GW, not a terrible idea but very poorly executed.

Stormbreed wrote:
100% at no point will anyone be forced to play against something they don't want to, ...

And once again, nobody is saying that anyone is 'forced' to play against anything they don't want to.

Stormbreed wrote:
100% at no point will anyone be forced to play against something they don't want to

Not forced at gunpoint, but forced by social pressure. If you show up to 40k night at your local store there's an assumption that you're willing to play against any standard army and that you won't expect veto power over your opponent's army choices. The concept of "standard rules" is important because the more frequently you refuse to play against someone who has an army that is legal under those standard rules the more likely it is that people will no longer be interested in playing with you.

 insaniak wrote:

Stormbreed wrote:
100% at no point will anyone be forced to play against something they don't want to, ...

And once again, nobody is saying that anyone is 'forced' to play against anything they don't want to.

We'll see how you feel after your opponent pulls a tazer when you try to walk away from the table they just plopped a Revenant Titan on. bwahahahahaha. *cough* *cough*

So there are D templates being used by these Lords of War machines? I love guard but I will not be buying a super tank just to grab it by the barrel and smacking my opponent across the face with it. Sure it uses 500 points but thats nearly 4 tanks in my tank army I have now.