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With the recent additions of D weapons and such is it possible to have a truly competitive setting for 40k? We know that GW whats the game to be a beer and pretezel game, have they done it?

It isn't the end of competitive play, it's just the end of competitive play without explicit rules about what is legal. Very few, if any, competitive events will allow superheavies and D-weapons, so the only change is that every event will have a list of banned units/armies/etc instead of just the "comp" ones.

I like the recent additions, as GW are supplying a multitude of new ways to play the game. All because we have all these new rules does not mean that they all have to be used and this is something that should be communicated within your gaming group. The most important thing, is the potential for variety (hopefully not every event the same!) but people don't like change :(

 Peregrine wrote:
It isn't the end of competitive play, it's just the end of competitive play without explicit rules about what is legal. Very few, if any, competitive events will allow superheavies and D-weapons, so the only change is that every event will have a list of banned units/armies/etc instead of just the "comp" ones.

Remember when people said the same thing about Allies? Now they're accepted because they're part of 40k.

If you're not playing with D-strength weapons, you're not playing 40k anymore. Having tournaments with all these house-rule excluding the different supplements may get rather confusing.

Do you expect tournaments to be banning the Codex supplements too?

Everyone is moaning about strength D weapons and I don't know why. Are rules for including Titians in the escalation supplement? Since its a new book you have to buy which isn't core rules, that means its a supplement, right? That means you can choose not to play it. Say if I asked someone to a friendly game, could they pull a Titian on me without even telling me, would I be the douche bag for telling him to go feth himself?

Sorry, in topic. IF strength D weapons are introduced into competitive play, it proabably won't kill the game, but different armies will be better. Vect Max Lance any kind of melta drop will now be very powerful against Titians but I do agree, they shouldn't be allowed in tournies.

When was 40k competitive in the first place?

carmachu wrote:
When was 40k competitive in the first place?

Just because 40k is supposed to be a casual "beer&pretzels" game, it doesn't mean that people can't play it competitively.

Hell, even games like Risk have competitive tournaments, and those games have much stricter rules.

Casual gaming and competitive gaming aren't mutually exclusive.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Say if I asked someone to a friendly game, could they pull a Titian on me without even telling me, would I be the douche bag for telling him to go feth himself?

Depends on your point of view. It is just the same as expecting someone to tell you what codex they are using and telling them you won't play them because they are using, say, GK or Necrons. How much of a douche or not that makes you depends on your local group and how you do it.

Although literately saying "go feth yourself." Always makes you a douche.

 Absolutionis wrote:
If you're not playing with D-strength weapons, you're not playing 40k anymore.

According to the guys who write the game, we're free to use (or not) whatever rules we want...

Having tournaments with all these house-rule excluding the different supplements may get rather confusing.

So long as the TO makes it clear what is and isn't allowed, it's not more confusing than determining which codexes are current.

Do you expect tournaments to be banning the Codex supplements too?

I expect that some will.

Escalation must be the first 40k supplement to get insta-banned before release by every single 40k tournament organizer in the world.

 Absolutionis wrote:
Remember when people said the same thing about Allies? Now they're accepted because they're part of 40k.

Allies are not even close to as bad as D-weapons. When allies were first revealed most people thought it was a bad idea (especially with the stupid and un-fluffy allies matrix), but very few people thought it was going to ruin the game. With D-weapons there's pretty much universal agreement that they are not appropriate for normal 40k games, and I expect that majority will only get more one-sided as people play against Revenant titans and realize how little fun they are.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Are rules for including Titians in the escalation supplement?

Yes, the Eldar Revenant titan is in the Escalation "book".

Since its a new book you have to buy which isn't core rules, that means its a supplement, right? That means you can choose not to play it. Say if I asked someone to a friendly game, could they pull a Titian on me without even telling me, would I be the douche bag for telling him to go feth himself?

It is part of the core rules just like any codex. You can choose not to play against it, but you can also choose not to play against orks. Escalation is nothing special.

You can play anything competitively, so I don't think there will ever be an end to competitive 40k.

Competitive 40k has 2 futures:
1) Escalation is banned from tournaments, proceed as normal.
2) Players roll off to see who goes first, Player A wins and places a Revenant Titan on the table, Player B places a Revenant Titan on the table. Player B rolls to seize initiative and gets a 5, player B says GG, packs up and leaves.

And nobody is mentioning Stronghold Assault which updated rules for fortifications and provided several new fortification options. That book has significant rule changes for normal 40K such as being able to shoot at your opponent's bastion even if unoccupied. But, there are also things like Void Shields and D weapons in it.

There is definitely a lot of overreacting.

So what you're saying is my opponent can bring multiple D weapons against me? Was I not not freaking out enough when they could only bring one?

Well it's apparently balanced out because getting a Revenant Titan and the D cannon fortification leaves plenty of points for a cheap HQ and some troops.

I hate to say it, but until the stupid 2++ rerollable build, the daemons flying spam, and a few others things get nerfed, escalation is one of the few things that shut them down.

Also, just as planned. Make 6th MC edition. Make every other book except SM have good MC. Make tau great at killing MC but bad at long range anti-heavy tank. Release a few super heavies into normal 40k. Force all MC spammers to switch gears.

Meanwhile, people with real armies aren't affected much. Only dicks to WAAC players.

And they're completely screwing over Tyranids, but what else is new?
Plus is the best solution to current problems releasing things that are even more broken and abusable that they make them obsolete?

I'm confused. Am I the only person here who doesn't own a Revenant Titan? Because it sounds like they are suddenly springing up everywhere.

I know several Eldar players that have them. I know even more that would go out and get one just to win.

 Absolutionis wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
It isn't the end of competitive play, it's just the end of competitive play without explicit rules about what is legal. Very few, if any, competitive events will allow superheavies and D-weapons, so the only change is that every event will have a list of banned units/armies/etc instead of just the "comp" ones.

Remember when people said the same thing about Allies? Now they're accepted because they're part of 40k.

If you're not playing with D-strength weapons, you're not playing 40k anymore. Having tournaments with all these house-rule excluding the different supplements may get rather confusing.

Do you expect tournaments to be banning the Codex supplements too?

Yes. I mean if MtG can ban or restrict cards, and we already have tournaments banning or restricting FW, then I fully expect them to ban and restrict anything else they see fit to do so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
And they're completely screwing over Tyranids, but what else is new?
Plus is the best solution to current problems releasing things that are even more broken and abusable that they make them obsolete?

At least Tyranids got something. Sisters didn't even get the Guard's hand-me-downs in this book.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
And they're completely screwing over Tyranids, but what else is new?

And Tau finally got what everyone was asking for ... a transport for gun drones

I don't think Escalation will have much impact on tournaments for one simple reason: A single super-heavy is too big of a points investment into one model that can only attack 1-2 units a turn and cannot score or contest objectives. The Revenant for example consumes about 50% of a given army's point allowance at 1850 points. For its points, it is possible to get around 7 Wave Serpents which will probably have a similar effect against anything not AV13+ if they focus their firepower on it while also being far more durable to return firepower (21 AV 12 hull points + jink vs 9 AV 12 hull points), being transports for scoring units, and being able to shoot fliers.

If anything, the only thing that died with Escalation is expensive AV14 units like Monoliths and Land Raiders. It isn't really possible to bring a sufficient amount of saturation in regular games to make up for how easily those sort of units die to D weapons.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
And they're completely screwing over Tyranids, but what else is new?

And Tau finally got what everyone was asking for ... a transport for gun drones

But it has two ion cannons!

God, everyone acts like a 700+ point flying hammerhead that transports a handful of drones with twin-linked pea shooters is bad, I don't get it.

I saw this on B&C. Rather amusing.

 cvtuttle wrote:
The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!

You would think Nerds and Geeks would be much smarter than this eh? We fall for it all the time.

Ah it was only what a year ago about allies and flyers going to ruin the game. Seem like most people adapted.

If you don't like it, don't play it. No one if forcing anyone to play a game that they will not have fun in.
You can refuse to play Taudar, you can refuse to play against D weapons. If a lot of people refuse to play
against D weapons, not many people will be bringing them since they will not be getting any gaming in.

If people are playing with D weapons, then that means most people want to play with them and then you
will have to adapt and learn (which it seems most people did with allies and flyers) and try new tactics.

Remember it's not all about killing, it's about claiming objectives.

As long as everyone has access, and with escalation they do (money constraints aside), 40k is still competitive. Now, what the scene looks like and whether it's just titans going around bashing each other is another issue.

Escalation is more proof that superheavies and titans have a real, legitimate place in the game.

And that game is Epic 40K.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Escalation is more proof that superheavies and titans have a real, legitimate place in the game.

And that game is Epic 40K.

Epic was cancelled though, so now all 40k is Epic.

Wait, so there's no restriction on how much a super heavy can be in your force? Like a 25% maximum or something?

You can just take a superheavy with min troops and HQ?

Because that video made me sad to watch.