Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

there it is. primarchs will not ever, EVER be allowed to have limbs removed. (you would suddenly have A LOT MORE angry marines if they tried that with Gulliman lol.

I don't think he'd have much of a choice if it was that or death...
Besides most primarch would probably prefer a dreadnought over death (There's a few that wouldn't)
Guilleman represents more than just a good fighter. His leadership, strategic and organisational skills as well as the respect countless citizens of the Imperium has for him would mean if he returned he would represent a massive resurgence of power for the Imperium.
Crusades have been led by saints but for a primarch? Especially that primarch? I imagine it'd stabilise at least that segmentum. Well until the Nids showed up in force...

ultramar is already pretty stable.(well there was this on tyranid incursion..) But they are fixing it! (yay for the ultramarines!) guilliman would do wonders, his only problem is he lacks -any- true charisma. He is a very charming person when compared to Lion El' Johnson, Dorn, or Logan. But compared to sanguinius, or pre- chaos god possesion Horus he is a "walter" (grump old man)

This is why Sanguinius would never come back... He would be FAR to much a symbol of hope the IoM could rally behind, and most (if not all) nay sayers would be put down. (sure, he couldn't get things done as efficiently as mr. ultra, but they would get done eventually! lol)

If both came back, then the IoM is saved! lol.

The segmentum however is not. It's being raided by orks, eldar and chaos. The Tau encroach and the Nids rampage through the entire segmentum at will.
Sanguinius is dead. Like actually totally dead so that's moot.
Guilleman doesn't need charisma at this point. The legend of the primarchs would do all of that for him. He just needs to work his magic in terms of logistics and strategy.

So was Vulkan, and several others! Oh, and there used to be squats! lol.

that aside. possibly. Its a reason we will never see them in the TT game, as that would require plot movement, which would require chance, which would require ever so little work. And would make Tzeentch happy lol. (seriously, Tzeentch, get to work on GW lol)

It would also lead to a possibly less grimdark setting, unless something so horrible comes that all of Guillimans attention has to be devoted to fighting them/it. (such as... a hive fleet 3x that of the one that hit ultramar last time?)

It's not a plot, it's a setting.
Vulkan was never confirmed dead like a lot of the other primarchs. (The loyalist ones just disappeared)
The only primarchs confirmed dead are: Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus, Horus, Curze, and Dorn.

Dorn is not confirmed he is missing.

 purplefood wrote:
I'm reasonably sure it's 60%.

Still not enough. It's > 66.7%

Codex Space Marines wrote:Many are the Space Marine Chapters that owe their fealty to the master of the Ultramarines, a selection of which are shown here. Some are venerable orders with a history dating back to the dawn of the Imperium, whilst others are more recent additions to the ranks of the Adeptus Astartes. This selection is by no means an exhaustive list – such a tome would be weighty indeed, for the sons of Guilliman account for over two thirds of all Space Marine Chapters extant at the close of the 41st Millennium.

Ultrasmurfs... Ultrasmurfs everywhere...

Makes me wonder how players of non-Ultramarines Chapters feel about this.

Indifference would be my guess.

 SarisKhan wrote:
Ultrasmurfs... Ultrasmurfs everywhere...

Makes me wonder how players of non-Ultramarines Chapters feel about this.

They play either home-brew Chapters or non-UM Chapters, or their Successors, so they don't play UM. It's not that big a deal, really.

my marines are blue. (well, some are!) lol.

 raiden wrote:

that aside. possibly. Its a reason we will never see them in the TT game, as that would require plot movement, which would require chance, which would require ever so little work. And would make Tzeentch happy lol. (seriously, Tzeentch, get to work on GW lol)

Whether we see them some day or not, Forge World needs to finish the Horus Heresy versions first. So it's a bit moot to think about if they will ever come back in modern times at the moment. Such a debate might have meaning a decade or so from now when the Horus Heresy series (both the novels and Forge World) is done.

At any rate, GW has their narrative set up to bring him back if they ever decide to, regardless of what's impossible in stasis or not. Hell, the narrative even addresses that ("some say he's healing despite how that's supposed to be impossible"). Saying "Gulliman will never return because it's impossible to heal in a stasis field!" is a pretty invalid argument when the storyline writers (who have the power to do whatever the hell they want) have already explicitly hand-waved that away.

He can't have a Dreadnaught because that requires a crippled but very much ALIVE occupant. Not someone that's due to go to a state of DEAD moments after emerging from a status field.

There is however a device that can heal people within stasis fields from the BL novels. Hooray for hope!

Vulcan is immortal so he will be the true saviour of Humanity.

I know I know! Get the shady inquisition to drop fliers all over all Ork habited worlds saying that Guilleman is alive, they will all believe it and when enough orks believe something it becomes true. Bam! Minds blown

 kronk wrote:
Guilleman died in the heresy. That's Omegron in his uniform slowly healing. It's a sinister, long-term plot.

Or is it Alpharius?

The answer to this question is simple.

The primarchs were never intended to be part of the game in "modern" 40K (everything starting with 2nd Edition in 1993). So half the loyal primarchs disappeared, the other half died, and the traitor primarchs either became antagonist daemon princes (Angron), or do nothing(Lorgar) by design.

I really don't believe he can come back. The idea of him 'healing' is what pilgrims say, not anybody with any knowledge of his wound or situation.

D-E-D, dead.

Animus wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
I'm reasonably sure it's 60%.

Still not enough. It's > 66.7%

Codex Space Marines wrote:Many are the Space Marine Chapters that owe their fealty to the master of the Ultramarines, a selection of which are shown here. Some are venerable orders with a history dating back to the dawn of the Imperium, whilst others are more recent additions to the ranks of the Adeptus Astartes. This selection is by no means an exhaustive list – such a tome would be weighty indeed, for the sons of Guilliman account for over two thirds of all Space Marine Chapters extant at the close of the 41st Millennium.

It's changed over the years.

But you are correct, the 6E Codex now sets the number at over two thirds.

 SarisKhan wrote:
Ultrasmurfs... Ultrasmurfs everywhere...

Makes me wonder how players of non-Ultramarines Chapters feel about this.

Why should anyone care? It's just the fluff. And it's always been the fluff as long as the modern version of 40K with the 18(20) Legions, and the Foundings, etc has been around. It isn't like it stops anyone from being Flavor of the Month Marines, lol.

Of course, it's fairly amusing, since if ~67% of Space Marines are descended from the Ultramarines, and there are no Space Wolves successors, and only a scant handful of Salamanders, that means the remaining ~32% is split between 6 Chapters. Since we know that Blood Angels geneseed is rarely used (because of the Rage), and Dark Angels geneseed is rarely used because the Imperium doesn't full trust those shifty weirdos, you have to figure the White Scars, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, and Imperial Fists amount for most of that 32%.

For perspective, that means the total number of Imperial Fists successors is probably only around 50, but the Ultramarines is close to 650 or more. The Ultramarines are literally over ten times more prolific than the next largest First Founding gene pool.

 raiden wrote:
It is

More correctly, it was and it still might be, but we won't know for sure for quite some time.

They've already made major changes to what we thought we knew about the HH, so who knows where we'll end up from here?

 purplefood wrote:
He's as dead as can be without actually being dead.

So, not dead then?

I think he can still potentially 'come back' - but that's for when GW is really desperate for sales.

You'll know they're close to getting to that point when Super Heavy Vehicles with Redonkulous D-Strength weapons are allowed in regular 40K games.

And we all know that is crazy, and GW would never allow that!

Yeah, I thought it was because that as soon as Gulliman is removed from stasis, the poison will kill him. And yes, the UM are responsible for two thirds of all current Space Marines (I'm fairly sure)

If Vulkan is a pertetual, why isn't the big blue smurf?

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
If Vulkan is a pertetual, why isn't the big blue smurf?

Because they are re-writing the history and fluff with every book, and decided Vulcan needed something different.

I remember when it was just an assassin who cut guiliman's throat...

The Lion was mortally wounded and put into stasis and he's just fine. So is Gully.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
If Vulkan is a pertetual, why isn't the big blue smurf?

Because they are re-writing the history and fluff with every book, and decided Vulcan needed something different.

I remember when it was just an assassin who cut guiliman's throat...

I don't remember that one at all - what's the original story there, and where was it from?

You never know. The Iron Hands captain in Angel Exterminatus who was sitting in a stasis field was healing.So using the argument that it's a stasis field and impossible doesn't work. We have proof that it is possible. This was due to the heart of Iron artifact he had but there is no precedence for a Primarch being in stasis and the way their genome works. Fulgrim created a new foot in what seemed like 30 seconds flat in The reflection Crack'd so we cannot know for sure.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
If Vulkan is a pertetual, why isn't the big blue smurf?

Because they are re-writing the history and fluff with every book, and decided Vulcan needed something different.

I remember when it was just an assassin who cut guiliman's throat...

I don't remember that one at all - what's the original story there, and where was it from?

To be honest, I don't recall. It's just something that stuck in my head from way back. It might just be me mis-remembering things. I can flip through my old books and see if anything pops up, but my 2nd ed UM codex is long gone unfortunately.

I'm pretty sure a good dosing of Warp Dust will fix him right up.

Lucarikx

 Omegus wrote:
The Lion was mortally wounded and put into stasis and he's just fine. So is Gully.

Except the Lion is listed as having been healed and put in stasis, whereas Guilly is mortally wounded and in stasis. Much difference there.

Also, don't forget that Girlyman isn't merely wounded, he's poisoned as well. Slightly harder to recover from that on his own.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
If Vulkan is a pertetual, why isn't the big blue smurf?

Because they are re-writing the history and fluff with every book, and decided Vulcan needed something different.

I remember when it was just an assassin who cut guiliman's throat...

I don't remember that one at all - what's the original story there, and where was it from?

To be honest, I don't recall. It's just something that stuck in my head from way back. It might just be me mis-remembering things. I can flip through my old books and see if anything pops up, but my 2nd ed UM codex is long gone unfortunately.

Unless that story dates back to some obscure WD article or something, the 2E codex never specified how he died, just that he had death wounds on his neck. The Fulgrim thing came about in the Index Astartes article. Not really a retcon or a re-write. Prior to those Index Astartes articles there was very little fluff about many of the individual chapters (and a lot of it never survived the canon-rollover from RT to 2E). Even Codex: Ultramarines only laid out some basics, and that was their book, lol.

As far as why Guilliman isn't a perpetual? Oh please, I hope he's not. They've already ruined Vulkan for all time and made him one of the lamest primarchs. They can leave Papa Smurf alone.