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you keep dismissing people that are explaining how the shields work in a consistant way, having 1 projector putting out 3 shields is effectivly the same as having 3 seperate generators putting out shields, one way or the other, once the shield has been topled, remaining hits go back on the unit, which, in the case of seperate shield generators, would then be directed that way.

armour pen rolls are to be made seperatly as you need to know what your rolling against and as a shield not being there passes the hits back to the unit you must roll them seperatly until either the shields are all gone or the shield has absorbed all the hits.

But they can't go onto the unit (and then redirect back to the shield) until all the shields are down. Which they wouldn't be if you had only destroyed 1 shield. Again you are doing something with no permission just to fit your interpretation.

How I read/would play the multiple shields:
Shield generator with 3 projected fields, fields 1, 2, and 3. Targeting a unit of guardsmen inside with a 4 Lascannon dev squad. Devs fire and hit 4 times. You then go to resolving those hits- you would normally roll to wound against the squad and fast roll against toughness, but the void shield rules say the hits are resolved against the shields instead until they go down. So per page 73 of the BRB, you resolve the first hit by rolling for armor pen vs AV12. Roll a 3, glance, shield 1 goes down per shield rules. Repeat for shields 2 and 3. Then the last hit is resolved, and since there are no shields the last hit is resolved against the guard, where being a lascannon vs a guardsman, he evaporates.

The change if you have say 3 generators projecting 2 shields each on those same guardsmen- you resolve hits one at a time to see if you drop shields, but instead of all being from the same generator, you have shields 1A, 2A, 1B, 2B, 3A, 3B. You choose a shield at random to resolve the first hit- say 2B, and resolve that hit. It goes down, and the next hit is resolved against a shield at random from 1A, 2A, 1B, 3A, and 3B, say this time against 1A. Or if 2B had not dropped, it could have randomly been resolved against shield 2B again.

Fling you are failing to recognize that the Hits are squential; let me Quote the Void shields for you:

Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield.

That is the first half about hits; so the shooting attacks hit the unit and then instead hit the Shield.

Then on to what hitting the Void Shield means:

Each projected void shield has an Armour Value of 12. A glancing or penetrating hit (or any hit from a Destroyer weapon) scored against a projected void shield causes it to collapse. If all the projected void shields have collapsed, further hits strike the original target instead.

S a single destroyer hit automatically drops the shields, and any remaining shots("Further hits") would invariably go back to the unit, after all if the Void Shield is down then the Void Shield does not get hit instead, and there are no "further hits" to get allocated back to the original unit.

Fling you are failing to recognize that the Hits are squential; let me Quote the Void shields for you:

Nothing in those rules states to resolve the hits sequentially. It is at best implied by the last sentence. But even that throws up massive problems with resolving against multiple shields.

To further fuel this fire .What happens if there are 2 units under one shield getting shot at by one split firing unit . Lets say two rhinos getting shot at by long fangs.
All the hits would hit the shield
What if there were two shields?

 FlingitNow wrote:

Fling you are failing to recognize that the Hits are squential; let me Quote the Void shields for you:

Nothing in those rules states to resolve the hits sequentially. It is at best implied by the last sentence. But even that throws up massive problems with resolving against multiple shields.

How does sequentially run into problems with multiple shields?

{Quote] If a unit is within 12" of more than one Void Shield Generator, and so within more than one Void Shield Zone when it is hit, randomly determine which of the buildings’ projected void shields is hit.

would also like to add to this that if your interpretation of how the shields work FlingitNow, then a warhound just became an unstoppable killing machine.

2 void shields and 9 hull points with shields able to come back up each turn? under your logic thats a minimum of 3 units just to try to damage it, all the while its blasting away.

and don't get me started on the reaver or the warlord! the warlord has 6 shields and 12+hull points.........

I haven't looked in detail at the wording for titan void shields. So this may or may not be true for them. But I would expect your description to be about right for a Titan.

to the eye of terror with the wording man, look at what happens on the gaming board!

Resolve hits against the first random shield until it is down.

You then follow the further hits are resolved against the unit, which then triggers the next shield, to be resolved sequentially again.

This is the crux of the issue for me. The further hits have no permission to go to the unit (and then redirect to a different shield) if there are still shields up. Only if they are all down can you go to the unit.

I like your interpretation and it makes sense. But it just doesn't seem to be supported by what they're saying which is why I hesitant to go with it.

Fling - again, you are trying to FAST DICE ROLL when the sequence of rolls has an effect on the game. You dont get to fast roll when the sequence of rolls has an effect.

So no, you do not need "permission to fire sequentially", you need to show how your allowance to FAST DICE ROLL still applies.

Failure to do so is concession you do not have permission to fast dice roll, and the problem you are having resolves itself.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Fling - again, you are trying to FAST DICE ROLL when the sequence of rolls has an effect on the game. You dont get to fast roll when the sequence of rolls has an effect.

So no, you do not need "permission to fire sequentially", you need to show how your allowance to FAST DICE ROLL still applies.

Failure to do so is concession you do not have permission to fast dice roll, and the problem you are having resolves itself.

Who said anything about fast dice rolling? Not me I've not talked about wound allocation or armour saves which are resolved sequentially (and hence fast dice could apply if it did not effect the result). The issue is to hit rolls are not sequential (unless specified otherwise) so intercepting those hits is not sequential it is simultaneous.

You are attempting to roll together, against a single value. That is fast dice rolling. You cannot do this, as the sequence of rolls can have an effect on what you need to roll, so you must roll sequentially.

Your assertion has no basis in rules. Show your permission to roll the dice together, or concede.

So permission to roll one at a time during shooting that isn't just for saves, FnP and vehicle damage table results. The default isn't to just roll one at a time as you suggest.

 FlingitNow wrote:
So permission to roll one at a time during shooting that isn't just for saves, FnP and vehicle damage table results. The default isn't to just roll one at a time as you suggest.

Vehicle Damage table results are sequentially. Otherwise you couldnt strip 3 hullpoints with 2 pens that result in 2 immobilises when a single unit shoots at a vehicle.

Vehicle Damage table results are sequentially. Otherwise you couldnt strip 3 hullpoints with 2 pens that result in 2 immobilises when a single unit shoots at a vehicle

Which I agree with in the very post you quoted? Now do we have any rules that to hit rolls and to wound rolls are sequential?

Because you are told you can only roll dice together when this has no effect on the game.

This has an effect

You are taking permission to fast dice roll, and treating that as the base case. It isnt. The base is you roll dice one at a time.

Cite permission to roll dice together. Page and para. Or concede you are not arguing rules.

So to hit rolls are not simultaneous now? You keep talking about fast dice. Why? It has literally nothing to do with this situation. Show that to hit rolls are not simultaneous and show that to wound rolls are not simultaneous. The shooting rules tell us that they are.

Sigh.

Give up. The allowance to roll dice together has been shown to not be met in this case, meannig you have to roll the dice one at a time. RAW.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Sigh.

Give up. The allowance to roll dice together has been shown to not be met in this case, meannig you have to roll the dice one at a time. RAW.

Page 13 paragraph 1, page 13 column 2 paragraph 2,

Page 16 paragraph 4 "Fast Dice" ONLY applies to armour saves. It can not be used for ANY other dice rolls. So please stop bringing up an irrelevant rule.

Please show allowance to roll all "to hit" together.

Page 13 paragraph 1.

Which pertains only to declaring which targets you fire at and rolling to-hit.

It pertains to shooting being simultaneous. Thus the only parts that are sequential are the parts we are told are sequential.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Essentially the issue is that you have to randomise all the hits together before rolling armour/wound, because it tells you this happens at the step between rolling to hit and rolling to wound/pen. What people want us to do is randomise a hit and conclude it and then go back to random using which you can't because you don't have permission to do so.

"It pertains to shooting being simultaneous. Thus the only parts that are sequential are the parts we are told are sequential."

Leap, not supported by rules.

I roll to-hit, ttogether, as this stage has no interaction with VS rules. I then roll one at a time, because the sequence I roll has an effect on the roll to armour penetrate / to wound / etc.

You are making an assumptive leap. Dont.

So Nos how do you resolve shooting? Declare a target for a unit. Shoot with 1 model til completion then start with the next? Or do you do each step as the entire unit before moving onto the next step?

I've shown shooting defaults to simultaneous you've shown nothing to support it not being simultaneous.

 FlingitNow wrote:
So Nos how do you resolve shooting? Declare a target for a unit. Shoot with 1 model til completion then start with the next?

I have never stated that as a resolution, so how about not putting words in my mouth?

FlingitNow wrote:Or do you do each step as the entire unit before moving onto the next step?

Sheesh, you LOVE your false dichotomy fallacies!

You do each step (to-hit, to-wound, armour saves, etc) as a group of dice, unless doing so would affect the game. We know this to be true, from examples such as firing at squadrons.

Void shields are another such example, and easily resolved using my method. Yours? Not so much.

FlingitNow wrote:I've shown shooting defaults to simultaneous you've shown nothing to support it not being simultaneous.

Except I have done so, you just (yet again) dont like the answer. Doesnt alter the truth of it.

So you do agree you do each step before moving on to the next? You just believe each step can be done in a sequential way. Correct? I'm just asking clarifying questions. So I can understand how your interpretation works. Am I correct so far?

I believe each step HAS to be performed sequentially, if failing to do so could cause issues with resolving.

So was I right in that you have go complete a step before moving onto the next?