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 Frazzled wrote:

Sounds like a 6 year old boy. They are supposed to roughhouse and be inappropriate. Its their nature at that age. They are like puppies without the awesome sweet milk breath. Thats the problem. Schools have been taken over by some mantra that normal boy behaviors are DA EVILZZ.

I can say with certainty that when I was around kindergarten age, I did not repeatedly kiss girls who did not want to kissed. Nor did any of my friends. This behavior would not have been tolerated coming by any of our parents.

A kid at age 6 is really in a phase of their life where they're learning about social norms, and forming the basis for their future behaviors. You're in really formative part of your life in those early years. If you're going to err one way or another when reacting to their actions, I'd much rather err on the side of teaching the lesson "You have to respect other people's boundaries" than teaching the lesson "It's OK, boys will be boys".

Chongara wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Sounds like a 6 year old boy. They are supposed to roughhouse and be inappropriate. Its their nature at that age. They are like puppies without the awesome sweet milk breath. Thats the problem. Schools have been taken over by some mantra that normal boy behaviors are DA EVILZZ.

I can say with certainty that when I was around kindergarten age, I did not repeatedly kiss girls who did not want to kissed. Nor did any of my friends. This behavior would not have been tolerated coming by any of our parents.

A kid at age 6 is really in a phase of their life where they're learning about social norms, and forming the basis for their future behaviors. You're in really formative part of your life in those early years. If you're going to err one way or another when reacting to their actions, I'd much rather err on the side of teaching the lesson "You have to respect other people's boundaries" than teaching the lesson "It's OK, boys will be boys".

Except that the article never once says "she didn't want to be kissed" it states "other kids told on them"

Chongara wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Sounds like a 6 year old boy. They are supposed to roughhouse and be inappropriate. Its their nature at that age. They are like puppies without the awesome sweet milk breath. Thats the problem. Schools have been taken over by some mantra that normal boy behaviors are DA EVILZZ.

I can say with certainty that when I was around kindergarten age, I did not repeatedly kiss girls who did not want to kissed. Nor did any of my friends. This behavior would not have been tolerated coming by any of our parents.

A kid at age 6 is really in a phase of their life where they're learning about social norms, and forming the basis for their future behaviors. You're in really formative part of your life in those early years. If you're going to err one way or another when reacting to their actions, I'd much rather err on the side of teaching the lesson "You have to respect other people's boundaries" than teaching the lesson "It's OK, boys will be boys".

We still have no evidence that the girl did not want to be kissed. If you have any, please let us know. As it stands, we have a comment saying the exact opposite, and that it was the snitches other children who told the teacher.

If I apply these rules to my youth I think I'm a rapist...

Chongara wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Sounds like a 6 year old boy. They are supposed to roughhouse and be inappropriate. Its their nature at that age. They are like puppies without the awesome sweet milk breath. Thats the problem. Schools have been taken over by some mantra that normal boy behaviors are DA EVILZZ.

I can say with certainty that when I was around kindergarten age, I did not repeatedly kiss girls who did not want to kissed. Nor did any of my friends. This behavior would not have been tolerated coming by any of our parents.

A kid at age 6 is really in a phase of their life where they're learning about social norms, and forming the basis for their future behaviors. You're in really formative part of your life in those early years. If you're going to err one way or another when reacting to their actions, I'd much rather err on the side of teaching the lesson "You have to respect other people's boundaries" than teaching the lesson "It's OK, boys will be boys".

Kid has been suspended for four days in total. Seriously?

 Soladrin wrote:
If I apply these rules to my youth I think I'm a rapist...

Looking at your avatar and what's written beneath it, why am I not surprised?

 Frazzled wrote:

Chongara wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Sounds like a 6 year old boy. They are supposed to roughhouse and be inappropriate. Its their nature at that age. They are like puppies without the awesome sweet milk breath. Thats the problem. Schools have been taken over by some mantra that normal boy behaviors are DA EVILZZ.

I can say with certainty that when I was around kindergarten age, I did not repeatedly kiss girls who did not want to kissed. Nor did any of my friends. This behavior would not have been tolerated coming by any of our parents.

A kid at age 6 is really in a phase of their life where they're learning about social norms, and forming the basis for their future behaviors. You're in really formative part of your life in those early years. If you're going to err one way or another when reacting to their actions, I'd much rather err on the side of teaching the lesson "You have to respect other people's boundaries" than teaching the lesson "It's OK, boys will be boys".

Kid has been suspended for four days in total. Seriously?

It sounds like a kid who was repeatedly told not too do something and did it

 Frazzled wrote:

Chongara wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Sounds like a 6 year old boy. They are supposed to roughhouse and be inappropriate. Its their nature at that age. They are like puppies without the awesome sweet milk breath. Thats the problem. Schools have been taken over by some mantra that normal boy behaviors are DA EVILZZ.

I can say with certainty that when I was around kindergarten age, I did not repeatedly kiss girls who did not want to kissed. Nor did any of my friends. This behavior would not have been tolerated coming by any of our parents.

A kid at age 6 is really in a phase of their life where they're learning about social norms, and forming the basis for their future behaviors. You're in really formative part of your life in those early years. If you're going to err one way or another when reacting to their actions, I'd much rather err on the side of teaching the lesson "You have to respect other people's boundaries" than teaching the lesson "It's OK, boys will be boys".

Kid has been suspended for four days in total. Seriously?

It may be a bit much, it may not even have been an incident worthy of attention. I dunno, I wasn't there. What I'm saying is that a policy that makes it clear that imposing yourself in other's people's space will not be tolerated, is probably a good one to have. It's a vitally important lesson and one I'm not sure we teach enough, particularly to boys.

That's why I talked about erring one way or another. A harsh policy handing out a few overreaching suspensions, may be preferable to a more lax policy that might let more through.

I'm certainly not saying this kind of stuff is "DA EVILZ" or even that I know everything about this specific situation. I'm just saying is that this kind of policy can have merit, as this is something very important to learn.

Clearly the beginning of a serial sex offender.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It sounds like a kid who was repeatedly told not too do something and did it

I would not consider two occurrences to be repeatedly told not to do something. This is twice, not over and over.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It sounds like a kid who was repeatedly told not too do something and did it

I would not consider two occurrences to be repeatedly told not to do something. This is twice, not over and over.

That we know of, on that one girl. Honestly we don't know enough to be making assumptions either way. It is a great internet article in that it is extremely vague, but with just enough information that everyone starts projecting on to it, or guessing what has happened or is happening. At best we have half a story, if we are being generous, yet people are already lining up and picking sides, making justifications, or lambasting the nanny state.

Got a two day suspension the first time. Seriously?

Do you like it when your daughter is getting kissed?

Ahtman wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It sounds like a kid who was repeatedly told not too do something and did it

I would not consider two occurrences to be repeatedly told not to do something. This is twice, not over and over.

That we know of, on that one girl. Honestly we don't know enough to be making assumptions either way. It is a great internet article in that it is extremely vague, but with just enough information that everyone starts projecting on to it, or guessing what has happened or is happening. At best we have half a story, if we are being generous, yet people are already lining up and picking sides, making justifications, or lambasting the nanny state.

You're right, I'd love more information, and I won't lie that I've picked a side in this argument based on the information that we have. I would have no problem amending my stance if it came out that this young lady was just one in a long string of students that have received in warranted kisses.

d-usa wrote:Do you like it when your daughter is getting kissed?

Thankfully I don't have offspring, so I don't have to worry about this... yet. I will cross that road when I get there. How would you feel about this happening to your kid in several years?

I can understand zero tolerance policies even though they are really dumb. They're a symptom of dumb parents, not dumb teachers. We mostly want to get along with the teaching part of our job and not waste time arguing with you over whether your spawn is being disruptive because the material isn't "engaging" enough, or because they're a poorly socialised nightmare.

Firm clear rules are good for children, and being able to argue out of them wastes time that should be spent on education, and teaches them that rules only last until you argue long enough about them. Therefore I'm pretty strict and don't allow much discussion of my decisions in the classroom.

All of that said, this is a pretty dumb case because a six year old can't possibly sexually harass someone, they are biologically incapable of having a sex drive at that age outside of some very weird situations. A better reason to suspend the kid would be "repeated failure to follow instruction". That's always very easy to back up and it's the main reason kids get suspended, really.

Also, suspension is no big deal.

 d-usa wrote:
Do you like it when your daughter is getting kissed?

Thats between her, the boy, and the guns I will always be cleaning when he's around.

 Frazzled wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Do you like it when your daughter is getting kissed?

Thats between her, the boy, and the guns I will always be cleaning when he's around.

Spoken like a true pa pa.

Every Dad, Brother and Uncle should be like this: (has language)

When I have a daughter the boys will have to fill out an application like this while Im lifting weights.

Chongara wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Sounds like a 6 year old boy. They are supposed to roughhouse and be inappropriate. Its their nature at that age. They are like puppies without the awesome sweet milk breath. Thats the problem. Schools have been taken over by some mantra that normal boy behaviors are DA EVILZZ.

I can say with certainty that when I was around kindergarten age, I did not repeatedly kiss girls who did not want to kissed. Nor did any of my friends. This behavior would not have been tolerated coming by any of our parents.

A kid at age 6 is really in a phase of their life where they're learning about social norms, and forming the basis for their future behaviors. You're in really formative part of your life in those early years. If you're going to err one way or another when reacting to their actions, I'd much rather err on the side of teaching the lesson "You have to respect other people's boundaries" than teaching the lesson "It's OK, boys will be boys".

I think his point is that this shouldn't be framed as Criminal Behavior. It should be viewed as Behavior That Should Be Corrected but Expected.

I fully agree. Suspending the kid is fine, It sounds like he had a history of acting out. But there has to be a better way of dealing with this sort of thing than handing out sexual harassment charges, which benefits no one. It is just not an accurate way of defining a child's actions.

The gross mismatch between agent, action, and punishment here will likely do more to infantilize the image of sexual harassment than deter future six-year-old sexual predators.

Considering that nothing in the article suggests that it was framed as Criminal Behavior or suggests that any criminal charges were filed it is stupid to complain about "criminal records" or "sex offender lists" or anything like that.

I said record, not criminal record.

You also said "Sex Offender" when the article said "Sexual Harassment".

And others keep on using such wonderful words such as "charges".

Maybe if his mother spend half as much effort correcting his behavior after the first suspension for the exact same thing as she is spending bitching about the school after his second suspension this would have never happened.

Mother doesn't want her child to have a note in his chart saying he was suspended twice for sexual harassment? Maybe she should take it up with her child after the first suspension and make sure it doesn't happen again. It's not the schools fault if she fails at that.

Yes because TAKING IT UP WITH A SIX YEAR OLD like he's an adult will work well.

Also, define sexual harassment. Please express how either of the events meet that standard.

 Frazzled wrote:
Yes because TAKING IT UP WITH A SIX YEAR OLD like he's an adult will work well.

Also, define sexual harassment. Please express how either of the events meet that standard.

It's kissing somebody after you have been told over and over not to do it even after you have already been punished for it before.

The majority of 6 year old children seem to have an easier time understanding it than you.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
When I have a daughter the boys will have to fill out an application like this while Im lifting weights.

Sorry hotsauce, but a 5lb dumbbell is just not intimidating

And as the father of a 4 yr old girl, my daughter is VERY good at either getting or avoiding kisses, depending on whether she does or does not want that sort of affection. Needless to say, if the 6 year old girl did not want to be kissed on the hand, she sure didn't act like it, nor like any young girl I've ever known/seen would react to someone taking her hand that she didnt want taking her hand.

HAHA, last time I checked my maxout was nearly 300 pounds w/o training. But I need to go back to lifting weights I think.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
When I have a daughter the boys will have to fill out an application like this while Im lifting weights.

First thing noticed? Face usually. Unusually attractive ones.

Last bone to be broken? Vertibrae or skull, take your pick.

Shot? Any vital location (chest, abdomen, neck, head.)

Church? Im Wiccan, not christian. No church

And if you want to intimidate me, you best start working out-im a Blacksmith

But back OT, sexual assault for kissing? WTF? Im... i lost. Is this a church school or something?

 d-usa wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Yes because TAKING IT UP WITH A SIX YEAR OLD like he's an adult will work well.

Also, define sexual harassment. Please express how either of the events meet that standard.

It's kissing somebody after you have been told over and over not to do it even after you have already been punished for it before.

The majority of 6 year old children seem to have an easier time understanding it than you.

And with thats statenment you shouldn't be on a jury.
You could argue its battery, not sexual harassment. There's no intent here. Its not possible.

 master of ordinance wrote:

But back OT, sexual assault for kissing? WTF?

Sexual Harassment.

After being previously warned for it.

And after already being suspended once for the same thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Yes because TAKING IT UP WITH A SIX YEAR OLD like he's an adult will work well.

Also, define sexual harassment. Please express how either of the events meet that standard.

It's kissing somebody after you have been told over and over not to do it even after you have already been punished for it before.

The majority of 6 year old children seem to have an easier time understanding it than you.

And with thats statenment you shouldn't be on a jury.
You could argue its battery, not sexual harassment. There's no intent here. Its not possible.

Good thing it's not a criminal matter and whatever definition you have floating around in your head doesn't matter one lick.

"This is once again another reason the federal government needs to step in and lay down the fething law with these things and create some standards nation wide rather than letting states mess things up."

"To say nothing of the large amount of schools that go unfunded because we decided to have our freedumbs and leave schooling up to incompetent local goverments that take the liberty of cutting any thing and everything they can from education to make sure we can lower those taxes!"

State/Local government funds most of the public education. NOT federal funds.


"we also like any kind of good socialized education as well."

Says you.