so Sisters of Battle= Space Marine

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**da001**

Lynata wrote:
LightKing wrote:thats a cop out...you can say the same thing about sisters or marines "it could be a lie, contradictory, or legends"
so your pretty much saying all 40k fluff could either be true or a legend/false?
Yes! As I've said in my very first post in this thread, the fluff is open for interpretation and it comes down to how you want to see the setting.

"Keep in mind Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are worlds where half truths, lies, propaganda, politics, legends and myths exist. The absolute truth which is implied when you talk about 'canonical background' will never be known because of this. Everything we know about these worlds is from the viewpoints of people in them which are as a result incomplete and even sometimes incorrect. The truth is mutable, debatable and lost as the victors write the history.
Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it.
Let's put it another way: anything with a 40K logo on it is as official as any Codex... and at least as crammed full of rumours, distorted legends and half-truths."
- Marc Gascoigne, Chief Editor Black Library, as quoted here on dakka by novel author Aaron Dembski-Bowden, one of the Horus Heresy writers

Ha ha I knew Lynata was going to post that quote.

It should be a sticky in the background section.

**LightKing**

that quote by Marc Gascoigne...just seems like their trying to be lazy with the fluff, and not try to make it flow and be consistent so their just like "it could be true or not"

**Ashiraya**

Psienesis wrote:
The greatest benefit of these threads is that it identifies the people to add to my ignore list when things get heated.

The lack of any kind of canon to 40K means that these debates are ultimately useless and futile. Me, I hate most of the books that BL publishes, because they are terrible. I don't even really like the Fire and Faith series that much. Of the two HH books I've read, it's enough to tell me that I don't need to read the rest to know I'll hate them.

In these arguments, no one is right, but no one is wrong, unless one tries to quote a specific page or a specific book and gets it wrong.

I generally find that ignoring people does more harm than good. Certainly, you can flush out some otherwise distracting people, but I have many times formed an enmity with someone only to later befriend them. I can't really put someone on a ignore list any longer.

Just my two cents though, feel free to go along with your own way.

**ThePrimordial**

da001 wrote:
LightKing wrote:

Sanguinius moved so fast that not even marines could keep up with him

Because he has wings

Fulgrim cut up tanks with his sword

I think this never happened. You are mixing him with Vulcan and his hammer I guess. And any marine can destroy a tank with a thunder hammer. And a human can destroy a tank with a power fist quite easily.

they weren't unbeatable but much more powerful then humans

Then we agree? Why you keep insisting that anyone here is saying that Primarchs are as powerful as humans?

by the way....Curze knew the M'shen was in his vincinity, HE let Her kill hum

I actually said that in the post you are technically answering. Read it. He died because his madness.

LightKing wrote:

so your pretty much saying all 40k fluff could either be true or a legend/false?

It is.
There are some declarations by people from GW that this is exactly the case.

I can perceive a bird moving bro.......
Fulgrim did cut up a tank, just like he beat up an avatar barefisted.
And just like Angron overpowered a warhound Titan trying to crush him with all of it's might, and like how Lorgar took Titan plasma to the face and lived.
Primarchs are tough.

**Lynata**

LightKing wrote:that quote by Marc Gascoigne...just seems like their trying to be lazy with the fluff, and not try to make it flow and be consistent so their just like "it could be true or not"

Personally, I would prefer a more consistent approach myself (I really like how Battletech handles this, though Star Wars also has a relatively good system in place). But I can see the other side of the coin: by making everything open for interpretation, they put the decision into your hands. Just like how you can invent your own Marine Chapter or Guard regiment complete with their homeworlds, GW wants you to make the fluff your own.

Check out the thread in which Aaron Dembski-Bowden explained and defended this philosophy - it's worth the read!

**LightKing**

Lynata wrote:
LightKing wrote:that quote by Marc Gascoigne...just seems like their trying to be lazy with the fluff, and not try to make it flow and be consistent so their just like "it could be true or not"
Personally, I would prefer a more consistent approach myself (I really like how Battletech handles this, though Star Wars also has a relatively good system in place). But I can see the other side of the coin: by making everything open for interpretation, they put the decision into your hands. Just like how you can invent your own Marine Chapter or Guard regiment complete with their homeworlds, GW wants you to make the fluff your own.

Check out the thread in which Aaron Dembski-Bowden explained and defended this philosophy - it's worth the read!

true i guess its hard to be consistent when you have a big stable of writers (black library)with different interpretations of the lore

although i think a consistent approach could work say with a group of 3 or 4 writers......

**Troike**

Void__Dragon wrote:
You are putting words into my mouth.

Not at all. Your statement of "all or most respects" seemed to imply an acknowledgement of the variation among Inquisitors that I'd previously mentioned as a factor. So if we're saying that Inquisitors can vary, then why not one who isn't a slaughterhouse in combat, but is a fantastic manipulator/investigator/scholar/psyker'whatever? Or one who has their lackies fight for them? I don't think that an Inquisitor has to be particularly exceptional inn combat, there's more to being an Inquisitor than that, after all.

Void__Dragon wrote:
We don't know if a less combat-capable inquisitor would be allowed, though I have yet to see one.

Well, again, Karamazov exists. Being elderly, he may not be top-notch in direct combat. Sure, he has his chair, but surely he's not in it 24/7? Yet he, presumably remains an Inquisitor when he's out of it, so it would seem that the Inquisition isn't absolute about that sort of thing.

Void__Dragon wrote:
It actually occurs to me: Is Karamazov that frail?

I mean, look at his sword. He'd have to be quite strong to wield that thing in combat.

Sure, he's probably spry for an older guy. But lifting a sword doesn't indicate combat prowess, any Sister could do that too.

Void__Dragon wrote:
What is up with you people and thinking "Oh, don't like us gimping? Let's gimp the Sisters too but still give them the advantage".

I mean, more to the subject of this thread, by that token, naked Sister vs. naked Marine, who wins? But that wouldn't be fair, would it?

I didn't mean to offend you, I just figured that it was a fair scenario that removed any and all edges granted by equipment. Obviously not a typical situation, but it shows that the Sister has an innate edge.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Sisters-esque Terminator armour.

Hmmm, nah. Borrowing a bit too heavily from the Marines, there. Two examples of some cool new (and original!) stuff for the Sisters would be zealot mobs and Celestians that can take melee weapons and perhaps storm shields. Two very fluffly units that fill niches in the army

BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Something like this, but with less boobplate.

Spoiler:

Not all of the sisters of course, just as an elite unit.

Ha, I knew it would be that picture.

Again, borrowing a bit too heavily from the Marines, pehaps. Though I admit that it does look cool, boobplate chain aside.

Void__Dragon wrote:
That faith you are talking about didn't protect them from the Sons of Malice, or the Necrons, lol.

But neither of those enemies used psychic attacks agains the Sisters. Psienesis was making the point that Sisters have something of an edge over Magnus specifically because he relies so much on psychic attacks, whilst the Sisters can resist psychic attacks.

**Psienesis**

Fulgrim did cut up a tank, just like he beat up an avatar barefisted.
And just like Angron overpowered a warhound Titan trying to crush him with all of it's might, and like how Lorgar took Titan plasma to the face and lived.
Primarchs are tough.

Or so the legends say.

**Lynata**

LightKing wrote:true i guess its hard to be consistent when you have a big stable of writers (black library)with different interpretations of the lore

although i think a consistent approach could work say with a group of 3 or 4 writers......

Quite so. It may sound nasty, but there's a saying that goes like "many cooks spoil the broth" ... it's just an issue of everyone having their own idea, and by being empowered as the author of an official product this enables them to leave their mark on the setting. All that GW did was, rather than forcing them to stick to a construct (they still do this to a degree, but style is more important to them) they just gave everyone - including the fans - carte blanche.

This is also one of the reasons for why I have a general preference for GW core studio publications, as far as my own vision of the 41st millennium is concerned: apart from this being the books that I've "grown up" with, the studio also has a comparatively small team of writers and they at least do talk to each other to ensure a minimum of consistency, apart from the occasional retcon. Expand this by adding dozens of Black Library novelists or the teams at FFG and Forge World, and you get this number in deviating ideas.

Troike wrote:Hmmm, nah. Borrowing a bit too heavily from the Marines, there. Two examples of some cool new (and original!) stuff for the Sisters would be zealot mobs and Celestians that can take melee weapons and perhaps storm shields. Two very fluffly and units that fill niches in the army

Agreed (also about your comment on that mini) ... but I'd still like to see an SoB version of a melee-focused Centurion, Ripley-powerloader-style.

**mattyrm**

I'm always amazed at how heated these threads get, its like, almost as heated as the "which turtle is the best" arguments when I was in elementary school, but everyone has pubes now.

Which means they should know better.

Oh and its Donatello quite clearly. More range, clearly the most intellectual, and doesn't have a ganja problem like Michaelangelo.

**CthuluIsSpy**

mattyrm wrote:
I'm always amazed at how heated these threads get, its like, almost as heated as the "which turtle is the best" arguments when I was in elementary school, but everyone has pubes now.

Which means they should know better.

Oh and its Donatello quite clearly. More range, clearly the most intellectual, and doesn't have a ganja problem like Michaelangelo.

Lies. Raphael is better. I mean, he has sais!

**LightKing**

Troike wrote:
Void__Dragon wrote:
You are putting words into my mouth.

Not at all. Your statement of "all or most respects" seemed to imply an acknowledgement of the variation among Inquisitors that I'd previously mentioned as a factor. So if we're saying that Inquisitors can vary, then why not one who isn't a slaughterhouse in combat, but is a fantastic manipulator/investigator/scholar/psyker'whatever? Or one who has their lackies fight for them? I don't think that an Inquisitor has to be particularly exceptional inn combat, there's more to being an Inquisitor than that, after all.

Void__Dragon wrote:
We don't know if a less combat-capable inquisitor would be allowed, though I have yet to see one.

Well, again, Karamazov exists. Being elderly, he may not be top-notch in direct combat. Sure, he has his chair, but surely he's not in it 24/7? Yet he, presumably remains an Inquisitor when he's out of it, so it would seem that the Inquisition isn't absolute about that sort of thing.

Void__Dragon wrote:
It actually occurs to me: Is Karamazov that frail?

I mean, look at his sword. He'd have to be quite strong to wield that thing in combat.

Sure, he's probably spry for an older guy. But lifting a sword doesn't indicate combat prowess, any Sister could do that too.

Void__Dragon wrote:
What is up with you people and thinking "Oh, don't like us gimping? Let's gimp the Sisters too but still give them the advantage".

I mean, more to the subject of this thread, by that token, naked Sister vs. naked Marine, who wins? But that wouldn't be fair, would it?

I didn't mean to offend you, I just figured that it was a fair scenario that removed any and all edges granted by equipment. Obviously not a typical situation, but it shows that the Sister has an innate edge.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Sisters-esque Terminator armour.

Hmmm, nah. Borrowing a bit too heavily from the Marines, there. Two examples of some cool new (and original!) stuff for the Sisters would be zealot mobs and Celestians that can take melee weapons and perhaps storm shields. Two very fluffly units that fill niches in the army

BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Something like this, but with less boobplate.

Spoiler:

Not all of the sisters of course, just as an elite unit.

Ha, I knew it would be that picture.

Again, borrowing a bit too heavily from the Marines, pehaps. Though I admit that it does look cool, boobplate chain aside.

Void__Dragon wrote:
That faith you are talking about didn't protect them from the Sons of Malice, or the Necrons, lol.

But neither of those enemies used psychic attacks agains the Sisters. Psienesis was making the point that Sisters have something of an edge over Magnus specifically because he relies so much on psychic attacks, whilst the Sisters can resist psychic attacks.

Magnus would still beat a sister 1 on 1 in combat because, well he's a primarch and vastly stronger then her

**da001**

ThePrimordial wrote:

I can perceive a bird moving bro.......
Fulgrim did cut up a tank, just like he beat up an avatar barefisted.
And just like Angron overpowered a warhound Titan trying to crush him with all of it's might, and like how Lorgar took Titan plasma to the face and lived.
Primarchs are tough.

Fulgrim beat up an avatar barefisted in "Fulgrim" (the HH novel, one of my favorites). Don´t remember him cutting up a tank. Source? I am not saying you are wrong, I am asking for the source. I really like Fulgrim.

Angron did the amazing deed of holding the feet of a Warhound Titan for a few seconds in Bretrayer. It is the same book where Lorgar took a plasma shot and nearly died. It is said that he would have died if Angron didn´t save him. And Angron nearly died because he got trapped behind some rocks and started carving in the wrong direction. Their own insanity, again, is their main weakness. And they can die. It is

Also, I already quoted the same thing you are quoting to me as proof that Primarchs can be defeated. Nobody is saying it is easy. At all. But it is possible.

LightKing wrote:
that quote by Marc Gascoigne...just seems like their trying to be lazy with the fluff, and not try to make it flow and be consistent so their just like "it could be true or not"

Well... it is the way the fluff is written. All of it. This is the reason it is so bombastic. And it is intentional. And I like it a lot, because it makes the setting a living thing where players can participate or create new things. We are actually encouraged to create new Chapters, new Chaos Warlords, new stories... the two missing Primarchs were created so people could make up their own Primarch.

I don´t think they did it because they were lazy. They were trying to recreate the epicness of ancient legends the best way they knew.

**LightKing**

da001 wrote:
ThePrimordial wrote:

I can perceive a bird moving bro.......
Fulgrim did cut up a tank, just like he beat up an avatar barefisted.
And just like Angron overpowered a warhound Titan trying to crush him with all of it's might, and like how Lorgar took Titan plasma to the face and lived.
Primarchs are tough.

Fulgrim beat up an avatar barefisted in "Fulgrim" (the HH novel, one of my favorites). Don´t remember him cutting up a tank. Source? I am not saying you are wrong, I am asking for the source. I really like Fulgrim.

Angron did the amazing deed of holding the feet of a Warhound Titan for a few seconds in Bretrayer. It is the same book where Lorgar took a plasma shot and nearly died. It is said that he would have died if Angron didn´t save him. And Angron nearly died because he got trapped behind some rocks and started carving in the wrong direction. Their own insanity, again, is their main weakness. And they can die. It is

Also, I already quoted the same thing you are quoting to me as proof that Primarchs can be defeated. Nobody is saying it is easy. At all. But it is possible.

LightKing wrote:
that quote by Marc Gascoigne...just seems like their trying to be lazy with the fluff, and not try to make it flow and be consistent so their just like "it could be true or not"

Well... it is the way the fluff is written. All of it. This is the reason it is so bombastic. And it is intentional. And I like it a lot, because it makes the setting a living thing where players can participate or create new things. We are actually encouraged to create new Chapters, new Chaos Warlords, new stories... the two missing Primarchs were created so people could make up their own Primarch.

I don´t think they did it because they were lazy. They were trying to recreate the epicness of ancient legends the best way they knew.

Guilliaman tanked a shot from a starship and surived floating in space without a helmet

**Psienesis**

mattyrm wrote:
I'm always amazed at how heated these threads get, its like, almost as heated as the "which turtle is the best" arguments when I was in elementary school, but everyone has pubes now.

Which means they should know better.

Oh and its Donatello quite clearly. More range, clearly the most intellectual, and doesn't have a ganja problem like Michaelangelo.

You are on crack. Raphael was the BAMF of the Turtles.

**Troike**

LightKing wrote:

Magnus would still beat a sister 1 on 1 in combat because, well he's a primarch and vastly stronger then her

Probably not. The only point I made was that Sisters have an edge in that they can resist psychic power, which is Magnus' favoured method of attack. Never said anything about them winning, or it being 1 on 1.

And why did you send me a PM accusing me of saying that a Sister would beat him 1 on 1? Where did I say that?

**LightKing**

Troike wrote:
LightKing wrote:

Magnus would still beat a sister 1 on 1 in combat because, well he's a primarch and vastly stronger then her

Probably not. The only point I made was that Sisters have an edge in that they can resist psychic power, which is Magnus' favoured method of attack. Never said anything about them winning, or it being 1 on 1.

And why did you send me a PM accusing me of saying that a Sister would beat him 1 on 1? Where did I say that?

i mean you can imagine sanguinius and his speed, vs a sister...jesus christ

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Troike wrote:
LightKing wrote:

Magnus would still beat a sister 1 on 1 in combat because, well he's a primarch and vastly stronger then her

Probably not. The only point I made was that Sisters have an edge in that they can resist psychic power, which is Magnus' favoured method of attack. Never said anything about them winning, or it being 1 on 1.

And why did you send me a PM accusing me of saying that a Sister would beat him 1 on 1? Where did I say that?

sorry i misread what you said

**Ashiraya**

I mean, like, wat

**mattyrm**

Do you remember that thread aout how much damage an Ork would do in a modern town? And everyone was like "Oh yeah they would kill like thousands of people" because people dont understand how guns work.

Melissia has the right of it, technology is the ultimate force multiplier, thats why we have been in Afghanistan for 12 years.

An ordinary high velocity rifle round would easily pass right through the skull of an Ork, or a Primarch, anyone who has ever been on a bullet penetration range could tell you that, and a bullet through the brain and out the back of the skull would give absolutely anything a headache.

Its what makes the whole argument silly, its fiction, you make most of the story up in your head and its plenty of fun, it cant and shouldnt be approached in a... er... logical manner?

Although, playing devils advocate I have to say, don't SM and such have super duper reflexes and super duper strength? If they all had MM, it would be pretty fething hard to score a hit on a SM, they can probably move faster carrying one than a modern sprinter can run in his underpants, I guess the sister wouldn't have the same mobility and would therefore be at a huge disadvantage, because its fething hard to hit a moving target.

**da001**

Troike wrote:
LightKing wrote:

Magnus would still beat a sister 1 on 1 in combat because, well he's a primarch and vastly stronger then her

And why did you send me a PM accusing me of saying that a Sister would beat him 1 on 1? Where did I say that?

Yeah he did the same to me too...

You know what? Here I go:

LightKing wrote:

Magnus would still beat a sister 1 on 1 in combat because, well he's a primarch and vastly stronger then her

No way! Seriously?? LOL
A mere primarch defeating a Sister of Battle in close combat!?! Preposterous! I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch??

No way a sissy like Magnus could take on a Sister of Battle 1 on 1. At least not in close combat.
No. Way.

**clively**

da001 wrote:

LightKing wrote:
that quote by Marc Gascoigne...just seems like their trying to be lazy with the fluff, and not try to make it flow and be consistent so their just like "it could be true or not"

Well... it is the way the fluff is written. All of it. This is the reason it is so bombastic. And it is intentional. And I like it a lot, because it makes the setting a living thing where players can participate or create new things. We are actually encouraged to create new Chapters, new Chaos Warlords, new stories... the two missing Primarchs were created so people could make up their own Primarch.

I don´t think they did it because they were lazy. They were trying to recreate the epicness of ancient legends the best way they knew.

This I agree with. We are looking at a timeline that spans thousands and thousands of years. Sure, some of those people live a bit longer than 100 but honestly their lives are still a drop in the bucket of the sheer amount of time that has passed.

We have a hard time establishing "historical truth" from events that happened only 100 years ago. How is a technologically stunted, highly religious society which has institutions dedicated to redacting and suppressing the past supposed to be written? Well, the only way to handle that is by establishing that there may be absolutely No truth in the stories you read or they might be 100% correct. Which is pretty much how human history currently stands. Heck you can have 10 well educated people witness the same event and have them tell 10 very different versions of what happened. This is well known and highly documented.

**Wyzilla**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Heh, thought they were. Their organisation isn't entirely clear. From what I found on wiki, if you were to just count the Major Order, then I think there's something like 6000 sisters.

However, there are a bunch of other orders and parts of the Adepta Sororitas as well.

Wait, there a million Space Marines? That number seems a little high. I thought it was closer to 10,000.

Million plus. Numbers should also waver given the constant recruitment of astartes and founding of new chapters. And chapters don't normally kick it. Plus it's hard to count guys like the Space Wolves or Black Templars.

And seriously LightKing. Stop making threads like these. Frankly, they're stupid questions that would be answered by reading the fluff. It'd be nice if you could please stop pestering us with questions that would be answered by a trip to the bookstore/library or just send PM's to somebody that would pleasantly answer them.

**CthuluIsSpy**

da001 wrote:
Troike wrote:
LightKing wrote:

Magnus would still beat a sister 1 on 1 in combat because, well he's a primarch and vastly stronger then her

And why did you send me a PM accusing me of saying that a Sister would beat him 1 on 1? Where did I say that?

Yeah he did the same to me too...

You know what? Here I go:

LightKing wrote:

Magnus would still beat a sister 1 on 1 in combat because, well he's a primarch and vastly stronger then her

No way! Seriously?? LOL
A mere primarch defeating a Sister of Battle in close combat!?! Preposterous! I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch??

No way a sissy like Magnus could take on a Sister of Battle 1 on 1. At least not in close combat.
No. Way.

You think THAT'S bad? Can you imagine what would happen if Magnus fought a grot? Poor guy would just get curb stomped.

**LightKing**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
da001 wrote:
Troike wrote:
LightKing wrote:

Magnus would still beat a sister 1 on 1 in combat because, well he's a primarch and vastly stronger then her

And why did you send me a PM accusing me of saying that a Sister would beat him 1 on 1? Where did I say that?

Yeah he did the same to me too...

You know what? Here I go:

LightKing wrote:

Magnus would still beat a sister 1 on 1 in combat because, well he's a primarch and vastly stronger then her

No way! Seriously?? LOL
A mere primarch defeating a Sister of Battle in close combat!?! Preposterous! I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch??

No way a sissy like Magnus could take on a Sister of Battle 1 on 1. At least not in close combat.
No. Way.

You think THAT'S bad? Can you imagine what would happen if Magnus fought a grot? Poor guy would just get curb stomped.

lol are you guys serious? Magnus would destroy a sister

**CthuluIsSpy**

LightKing wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
da001 wrote:
Troike wrote:
LightKing wrote:

Magnus would still beat a sister 1 on 1 in combat because, well he's a primarch and vastly stronger then her

And why did you send me a PM accusing me of saying that a Sister would beat him 1 on 1? Where did I say that?

Yeah he did the same to me too...

You know what? Here I go:

LightKing wrote:

Magnus would still beat a sister 1 on 1 in combat because, well he's a primarch and vastly stronger then her

No way! Seriously?? LOL
A mere primarch defeating a Sister of Battle in close combat!?! Preposterous! I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch??

No way a sissy like Magnus could take on a Sister of Battle 1 on 1. At least not in close combat.
No. Way.

You think THAT'S bad? Can you imagine what would happen if Magnus fought a grot? Poor guy would just get curb stomped.

lol are you guys serious? Magnus would destroy a sister

Yes, we are totally serious, and totally not being flippant. You can tell how serious I am with my repeated use of the word "totally."

**Void__Dragon**

da001 wrote:
Ouch.
Kor Phaeron was no psyker. A psyker is a mutant (not entirely human) who is born with power. When Lorgar came to Colchis, Kor Phaeron was an old man whose only powers were reading books and having faith.

So tell me: What do you call the lightning he tossed at Guilliman?

And Luther is a similar case.

And yes, they got help. But so did the marines with the augmentations and psico-indoctrinations. And the Primarchs were BORN that powerful. Which is... far less impressive that what Kor Phaeron and Luther achieved being just "puny humans".

Luther was given power by the Chaos Gods. It was not earned, it was given to him. And that power outstrips any Sister of Battle that has ever lived, based on what we have seen.

Humans can kick ass in the setting. In many ways, Sisters, Commissars and perhaps Assassins and Psykers (if they can be considered still humans) are examples of this.

With the exception of powerful psykers, none of them have been shown to be capable of taking out Primarchs with anything resembling reliability.

**Lord Spartacus**

But what about Angron? Can the poor dude survive a battle with a Sister?

**Void__Dragon**

Melissia wrote:
The Primarchs aren't equivalent to Superman, not even remotely close. And Sisters of Battle are not equivalent to dogs.

But now that we're at the point where we're comparing women characters to dogs, I'm going to go over there and ignore the hell out of this thread.

Stop finding sexism where it doesn't exist.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Lord Spartacus wrote:
But what about Angron? Can the poor dude survive a battle with a Sister?

Maybe. But if there are two of them, then GG...and Mork help him if he runs into a squig. Those things will feth you up.

**Void__Dragon**

Psienesis wrote:
Excepting... they weren't.

Some of the Primarchs died to purely conventional weapons.

We don't even know the name of the Chaos-aligned midshipman who punched Dorn's ticket. We don't know the name of the pasty point-ear who slapped Khan in chains. Jonson was felled by the psychic attack of a regular dude.

Why do you spread lies throughout the forums?

We have no idea what killed Dorn. None at all. To say otherwise is to lie.

The Khan? We also have no notion of where he is.

Jonson? "Regular dude"?

Luther was amplified by the Chaos Gods themselves to be on Lion El'Jonson's level.

Stop lying.