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MVBrandt wrote:
But when GW releases its OWN HQ Tourney rules and doesn't even include 'em, it's not engendering confidence.

See, you even said yourself why these rules shouldn't inspire confidence, or destroy confidence, or really do anything at all besides let us all laugh at GW for a bit:

I think we can all agree very few people will be happy if tournaments worldwide start mimicking the warriors' code, so this is another post of GW POSTED SOMETHING OFFICIAL, BOYS that's utterly pointless.

And this is exactly correct. Nobody is using these rules in their own events, and I doubt very many people even think they're a good idea. So why treat them as anything more than some random sales intern throwing together some random words about BUY MORE GW PRODUCTS!!!!!!! without having any clue what they're doing?

 Peregrine wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:
But when GW releases its OWN HQ Tourney rules and doesn't even include 'em, it's not engendering confidence.

See, you even said yourself why these rules shouldn't inspire confidence, or destroy confidence, or really do anything at all besides let us all laugh at GW for a bit:

I think we can all agree very few people will be happy if tournaments worldwide start mimicking the warriors' code, so this is another post of GW POSTED SOMETHING OFFICIAL, BOYS that's utterly pointless.

And this is exactly correct. Nobody is using these rules in their own events, and I doubt very many people even think they're a good idea. So why treat them as anything more than some random sales intern throwing together some random words about BUY MORE GW PRODUCTS!!!!!!! without having any clue what they're doing?

My initial and continuing input on this thread re: FW is that I don't think the NOVA, or LVO, or AdeptiCon, or anyone else is going to suddenly change what they do since according to Warhammer World we're illegally allowing FW rules. We're in agreement here. Any ongoing difference in opinion between you and I on whether every tournament organizer should be peer pressured into legalizing FW in every single event and event format they run is indie of this discussion, in which we completely agree. The Warrior's Code is neither official nor in any way relevant to any of us.

MVBrandt wrote:
Your position is "if you aren't using FW at all events and in all formats and in all ways, you're not playing the game right."

You're right. But that is my personal opinion, motivated by a desire to make tournaments as inclusive as possible and not tell people that they're unwelcome because they play DKoK instead of screamerstar or Riptide spam. That's entirely different than saying ridiculous things like "FW rules weren't published for normal 40k", which is just factually wrong. The statement I objected to wasn't an attempt at having a discussion about what the rules should be, it was an attempt to catch me in some kind of "hypocrisy" and win a forum argument.

It's a frustrating point of view for most TOs and others, since no amount of middle ground will satisfy.

That's because things like allowing 0-1 FW unit are not really a middle ground. In fact there really isn't much middle ground at all, either I can go to an event or I can't. Having a 0-1 option is still effectively the same as saying "stay home, you're not welcome here".

 Peregrine wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:
Your position is "if you aren't using FW at all events and in all formats and in all ways, you're not playing the game right."

You're right. But that is my personal opinion, motivated by a desire to make tournaments as inclusive as possible and not tell people that they're unwelcome because they play DKoK instead of screamerstar or Riptide spam. That's entirely different than saying ridiculous things like "FW rules weren't published for normal 40k", which is just factually wrong. The statement I objected to wasn't an attempt at having a discussion about what the rules should be, it was an attempt to catch me in some kind of "hypocrisy" and win a forum argument.

It's a frustrating point of view for most TOs and others, since no amount of middle ground will satisfy.

That's because things like allowing 0-1 FW unit are not really a middle ground. In fact there really isn't much middle ground at all, either I can go to an event or I can't. Having a 0-1 option is still effectively the same as saying "stay home, you're not welcome here".

Well, then you are as open to constructive discussion as the person you went after for not being open to it. Namely, you aren't at all.

I also don't mean to say this aggressively ... cordial tone I hope .. just struck me as odd that you'd target someone for a lack of interest in constructive discussion when you also lack that interest, on this subject.

Once again, about the Warrior's Code I totally agree with you.

I like the part about "not getting bogged down in the details" followed by 3 pages of fine print details.

MVBrandt wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:
But when GW releases its OWN HQ Tourney rules and doesn't even include 'em, it's not engendering confidence.

See, you even said yourself why these rules shouldn't inspire confidence, or destroy confidence, or really do anything at all besides let us all laugh at GW for a bit:

I think we can all agree very few people will be happy if tournaments worldwide start mimicking the warriors' code, so this is another post of GW POSTED SOMETHING OFFICIAL, BOYS that's utterly pointless.

And this is exactly correct. Nobody is using these rules in their own events, and I doubt very many people even think they're a good idea. So why treat them as anything more than some random sales intern throwing together some random words about BUY MORE GW PRODUCTS!!!!!!! without having any clue what they're doing?

My initial and continuing input on this thread re: FW is that I don't think the NOVA, or LVO, or AdeptiCon, or anyone else is going to suddenly change what they do since according to Warhammer World we're illegally allowing FW rules.

Two counters. First, since when is Warhammer World the arbiter of all play/tournament legality, and since when did any of those events base their events off of Warhammer World's rules? I don't recall such events enacting the same restrictions on allies that Warhammer World had last year for instance.

Also, the title of this thread is funny.

"It's all in" apparently doesn't include FW rules... but includes everything else and the kitchen sink...

Oh GW, what are you doing...

MVBrandt wrote:
I also don't mean to say this aggressively ... cordial tone I hope .. just struck me as odd that you'd target someone for a lack of interest in constructive discussion when you also lack that interest, on this subject.

I wasn't talking about their certainty in their position being right (which you're quite reasonably saying that I have), I was talking about how the comment I objected to was just an attempt to "prove" my "hypocrisy" in my signature rather than to have a constructive discussion. Holding an extreme no-FW position can be constructive. Posting something that is little more than "Peregrine sucks" isn't.

Muahahaha, it's madness! Madness I tell you!!!

All this says to me is that we are going to have to choose which rules to use and which not to use.

Easy, peasy.

What it means though, is that unless someone wants to play with the FW Named Daemons and D Slappers, they can't say they want to play "pure" 40K anymore!

Actually, that's a nice takeaway- this finally may do away with the idea that there is one "right" way to play, and everyone else is doing it wrong...

But it does leave very open to interpretation how to proceed, and it will be up to TOs to figure that out for their events... and hopefully there will be some homogeneity in that regard, and not a completely different type of game for any particular GT.

 Reecius wrote:
Muahahaha, it's madness! Madness I tell you!!!

All this says to me is that we are going to have to choose which rules to use and which not to use.

Easy, peasy.

What it means though, is that unless someone wants to play with the FW Named Daemons and D Slappers, they can't say they want to play "pure" 40K anymore!

Untrue, Reece. Your warhammer world link excludes FW.

@Mike

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/L/lordsofwar.pdf

But seriously, who cares?! haha

The point of this thread is celarly to overreact and go crazy!! Ahhhh!!, Ahhh!! It's all madness!

Get with the program! hahaha

@RiTides

Yeah, it's up to us to figure it out. It always was, really.

Everything will be fine, I think in the long run this will actually be good as it gives us so many more options.

For now though, business as usual.

6 months ago I might have been hesitant to start just ignoring GW's published stuff... but like the increasing plastered drunk in the bar during a serious moment with the guys, sometimes the loud idiot in the room just needs to be tossed out into the street and ignored until he comes to his senses.

Yeay lets all jump on the crazy train !!!

But... I want to field Zarakynel AS Zarakynel, not as a no name keeper. That would be awesome, and now worth her height above ALL los blocking terrain.

Serious note, even for 666 points, I'd feel dirty playing that in a game. A GC that is T7, has a 3+ inv, and can move 12 inches? Assaults at I10? Laugh as your opponent as he removes your models? Not a way I'd prefer to play.

With all these crazy nonsense changes to their game, my hopes of a better balanced system for 7th have gone down the crapper

Forgeworld out, superheavies and D in

Top lel, sounds like a fantastic event

 Reecius wrote:
@Mike

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/L/lordsofwar.pdf

But seriously, who cares?! haha

The point of this thread is celarly to overreact and go crazy!! Ahhhh!!, Ahhh!! It's all madness!

Get with the program! hahaha

@RiTides

Yeah, it's up to us to figure it out. It always was, really.

Everything will be fine, I think in the long run this will actually be good as it gives us so many more options.

For now though, business as usual.

I don't care lol, just pointing out the lol. The warriors code you linked doesn't allow the Forgeworld lords of war, or any other Forgeworld.

GW Circle Jerk Rules wrote:So you’ve chosen to attend one of our events here at Warhammer World

Guess that means they specifically only want you using those rules there. To be honest, when they start providing tournament support again, and do so on the same scale as we can provide without their hands in it, then their opinion can matter again, otherwise they can keep pumping out stuff that we can sift through and decide yay or nay on using.

It's weird, they mention FW but not the rules?

Oh well, I just posted this up because it was interesting.

I don't think that many folks took it as anything more than what it is: the GW tournament format.

No one I knew of in the USA used the ToS format back when it was around, either. Not that it was bad, it's just not what anyone chose to use.

 RiTides wrote:
Also, the title of this thread is funny.

"It's all in" apparently doesn't include FW rules... but includes everything else and the kitchen sink...

Oh GW, what are you doing...

Yeah FW is too out there, but a revenant titan on a skyshield with void shields is totally fine.

It's almost like GW is trying to piss off the people with negative opinions about them so all they left are the idiot goobs that think they're the best.

MVBrandt wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Orock wrote:

 tomjoad wrote:
Good point, Orock. Definitely keep using the regular Codexes and digital releases that are definitely tested and balanced and everything. Thankfully, Forge World is clearly less fair than the "main" books.

At least GW dosent pretend they don't exist. And local tournaments more and more are putting reasonable restrictions in place for broken stuff, like our store has a 0-2 on any unit not troops, to try and cut down on cheese. I would love it if we could just cherry pick as a democracy and vote for every single unit, FW or GW, to be banned or restricted for competitive play. But since we cant, and one persons opinion on a forgeworld unit might differ from anothers, the easiest thing to do is restrict it all from competitive play.

The day the TO's get together, give gw the finger, and come up with a definitive list of banned/restricted/allowed units as a whole (as in FW AND GW units), I will gladly wish forgeworld blanket bans a bon voyage.

W.I.P.

If that means what I think it means, when can we expect this glorious USA 40k tournament format list?

Wow GW is supporting tournament again.... ohhh, wait no they don't. So who really cares what there rules are, it not like they keep track of rankings or offer prize support.

 Reecius wrote:
Muahahaha, it's madness! Madness I tell you!!!

All this says to me is that we are going to have to choose which rules to use and which not to use.

Easy, peasy.

What it means though, is that unless someone wants to play with the FW Named Daemons and D Slappers, they can't say they want to play "pure" 40K anymore!

 RiTides wrote:
Actually, that's a nice takeaway- this finally may do away with the idea that there is one "right" way to play, and everyone else is doing it wrong...

But it does leave very open to interpretation how to proceed, and it will be up to TOs to figure that out for their events... and hopefully there will be some homogeneity in that regard, and not a completely different type of game for any particular GT.

This. Theres tons of ways to play 40k and always has been. I can't stand the "pure 40k" concept and I'm glad to see it's gone right down the crapper

How can you not adhere to the Warrior's Code? Huh? DO YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS? WHEN YOU MESS. WITH THE WARRIOR!!!??!! AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Warrrrioorrrrss, cooome out and plaaaayyyy!!

Yeah, the Warriors code is Eldar Titan+Coteaz+Skyfire=who goes first, wins! Weee!

We've been trying the Super Heavies with D Weapons, and it is honestly bad comedy. When you mix in the Formations and Void Shields and what not, forget it.

@Dakkamite

Yup, GW flushed that idea down the toilet!

"Pure" 40K now is so insane that it is not a game I would want to play except for laughs.

It's all good though, honestly I am not worried, just laughing at the insanity. When the dust settles, we'll largely be playing the game we were before.

The dust has already settled. GW can't sell Super Heavies even when they allow them.

We all know they don't work in a tournament. This is GW trying to blow the dust in our eyes. Ahh, it burns... I still won't buy a super heavy... Ahh

 Reecius wrote:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3640318a_Warriors_code_V1.3.pdf

That is GW's tournament policy.

Of course, we don't have to use this if we choose not to, but this sets precedent that it's all in.

So do you want the D or the B(an)?!

It seems to be one or the other, now =)

Discuss.

So they have a new Tournament policy, but don't actually, like RUN their own tournaments anymore (in-store events don't count. Not even on the same scale as the tourneys they USED to do).
Thanks but no thanks. Go teach your own grandmothers to suck eggs, GW. We don't want any.

Lol, well GW your 3/5 of an opinion on how a tourney should be run is noted. Now hush on your comments because until you bring back Ardboyz, no ones F'n caring what the hell you have to say....
Now go re-write the Chaos Space Marine book!

Haha, yes, please rewrite Chaos! That would be nice.

Tournaments will adjust, people will still go and have fun. We're still selling LVO tickets among the madness so it hasn't turned everyone off.

The cool thing I think now though, is that we have more options. Once folks acclimate to the idea that we don't have to play "by the book" anymore we can create whatever we want. It's kind of cool, really.

But yeah, the ToS format honestly doesn't sound like that much fun to me personally at this point although I could be wrong, they may have a great time.