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Hi, Dakka'ers.

Is isn't meant to be a rant, but, let's be honest, it'll probably end up like that. But, hey, what're Internet forums for?

So, friends, do they take the spirit from the game? I don't mean: Does having friends, in general, ruin your game in some kind of distraction/mixed loyalties fashion.

Okay, here's the thing: I've only been gaming for about a year and a bit, and only with a small group of friends, who all agreed to take up the game together.

We meet every now and then and play a game, however, here's the thing, every time we meet my friends have come up with some sort of new house rule that I disagree with, but I can't say anything 'cos then I'm just 'moaning.'

They flood the table top with scenery and cover, and I mean flood it. So much that I can't move anything. Not an issue for them as one's plays Tau, so he just flies over everything, one's Eldar, so he just ignores cover, and I find myself stuck somewhere trying to shoot as much as I can before I get hacked to death or disintegrated by a Large Blast Template that scores a 'Hit' on my Combined Squad of Guardsmen.

The house rules frack me off, too, is makes it impossible to kill anything, it's things like: take cover saves and armour saves, and you can charge at nothing to bring your figures into range... great for them, but my Guardsmen fall in droves as I have no armour saves, and I still can't move due to over-scenery and I have no Line of Sight.

I loose every game and I'm getting raked off to be honest.

What erks a little bit too, is that I was reluctant to actually start Warhammer 40,000, but I'm the only one with a fully painted, kit bashed, fully based army, no one else seems to have any... 'respect' if that's the right word, for the game. I fight unpainted, illegally constructed figures and that just sticks in my craw a bit... I don't even know what a craw is.

I just want to play 'the game', not a butchered version of it.

It's really putting me off playing the game in the future, to be honest, which is a shame.

Does anyone else have any similar issues?

You need to find a new group to play with, if they won't play the normal rules. That or take advantage of the new stronghold assault rules and build yourself a forteress.

Thank God that I have no such problems. Me and my friends all try to paint and make our armies as nicely as possible (it's so much work )
And there is always room for discussion about house rules. And we also frequently use each other's armies.

If those guys really are your friends, you should just be able to face them and say what you've said here, and they would be nice and take your complaints into account.
If not, maybe you should look for new friends to play with.

Please excuse the "hack and slash" nature of this post. I normally reserve this method for heated arguments, but that is not the intention here; there's just quite a few points I want to reply to

 Tower75 wrote:

Is isn't meant to be a rant, but, let's be honest, it'll probably end up like that. But, hey, what're Internet forums for?

Ah, the true nature of Dakka

 Tower75 wrote:

So, friends, do they take the spirit from the game? I don't mean: Does having friends, in general, ruin your game in some kind of distraction/mixed loyalties fashion.

With mine, some do, some don't. I've got one TFG who will only play 40k if his Orks can get a turn 1 charge, or if I don't bring any flamers or blasts.
I have another friend who I play with who I never win against, but he is playing purely by the book, and mostly my losses are my own fault (Tactical mistakes: I've played about 4 games of 6th ed, I can't even remember how my Heldrake works -.-).
But then I've got another friend who I always have a blast with. I have CSM, he has IG/SM, and we HR like feth, and it's hilarious!

 Tower75 wrote:

Okay, here's the thing: I've only been gaming for about a year and a bit, and only with a small group of friends, who all agreed to take up the game together.

It's fun when that happens

 Tower75 wrote:

We meet every now and then and play a game, however, here's the thing, every time we meet my friends have come up with some sort of new house rule that I disagree with, but I can't say anything 'cos then I'm just 'moaning.'

Ikr? Play a game at your house and play the host. Make your own House Rules that screw them over and see how they like it Reason that if they're allowed to HR, you can too.

 Tower75 wrote:

They flood the table top with scenery and cover, and I mean flood it.

That's the reverse of my situation - I get pitted against gunlines, and I get about 1 small terrain piece for every 2x2 block. Sucks.

 Tower75 wrote:

So much that I can't move anything. Not an issue for them as one's plays Tau, so he just flies over everything, one's Eldar, so he just ignores cover, and I find myself stuck somewhere trying to shoot as much as I can before I get hacked to death or disintegrated by a Large Blast Template that scores a 'Hit' on my Combined Squad of Guardsmen.

I feel ya, bro. Being roflstomped isn't fun.

 Tower75 wrote:

The house rules frack me off, too, is makes it impossible to kill anything, it's things like: take cover saves and armour saves, and you can charge at nothing to bring your figures into range... great for them, but my Guardsmen fall in droves as I have no armour saves, and I still can't move due to over-scenery and I have no Line of Sight.

I loose every game and I'm getting raked off to be honest.

Call them WAAC TFG's. Try explaining that basically they're being dicks.

 Tower75 wrote:

What erks a little bit too, is that I was reluctant to actually start Warhammer 40,000, but I'm the only one with a fully painted, kit bashed, fully based army, no one else seems to have any... 'respect' if that's the right word, for the game. I fight unpainted, illegally constructed figures and that just sticks in my craw a bit... I don't even know what a craw is.

Well that's just... I don't even... Sonnova...

 Tower75 wrote:

I just want to play 'the game', not a butchered version of it.

Personally, I consider 80% of the changes for 5th to 6th to be utter heresy (and I play CSM!), but I see what you mean.

 Tower75 wrote:

It's really putting me off playing the game in the future, to be honest, which is a shame.

Damn. 'tis a shame. You could try to get a pick up game at the local FLGS (if you have one).

 Tower75 wrote:

Does anyone else have any similar issues?

Eh, somewhat.

Wow, that's pretty extreme. My group of friends and I stick to the BRB closely, so there's no problem with ass-pull rules. We've even established an ubiased manner of placing terrain to avoid any unfairness and stupid shenanigans ("Oh, an ADL? Look, a hill's sprouted randomly just in front of it!").

To be honest, the only thing I don't like about one of my friends (the other two are completely okay) are his WAAC tendencies. I don't enjoy being beaten time and again solely by a Flyrant even though I've successfully pulled off numerous tactics. Or, running away with his entire Tyranid army after gaining 1-point advantage in a game of extermination...

Well, buy some Basilisks and blow your friends to smithereens, perhaps?

Honestly you are just going to have to bring it up that these things heavily favor them. You will have to instigate, point out the fact that the pointing of units isn't based up getting double saves and thus, with their 3+ to 5+ saves coupled with their ap5+ at least guns, they are basically getting a huge buff for free.

You are going to have to be the one to instigate. That, or you can just ditch them . They can call you a whiner but they are making rules and not even with everybody agreeing. I play with certain house rules. But these are agreed by all. Campaign games with unique rules are carefully constructed and bar a few special things that I keep hidden for surprise reasons, I make sure to check that the general premise and vast majority of the rules are fine with them (I hide hidden objectives that provide goals besides CRUSH THE FOOLS!)

Anyways, for my group... honestly the only problems I have is that one of our players get s bored when losing and rarely tries to expand his army thus meaning he has limited choices thust meaning he will suffer. Also his flaunting of the stupid rune priest is irritating to tzeeeentch . The other guy is unbearable because although he is a great guy, he can be rather gloomy. He has painted all of his models quite well.... and he doesn't like to see them shot off the board. He will sit there moping and demoralized after he TABLES YOU (the first few times I fought Tau I tried some experimental lists that ended badly) because you killed a unit and a half of his own. He will chunk some of his models, get grumpy, be glum, and all around sour. It's like he wants to play it where he doesn't lose a single model and the enemy gets crushed. But alas he's a great guy and so we all live with it

Convince your friends to have 1 game where you all swap armies. Then they can see how hard it is for you and maybe stop being selfish.

(Maybe they'll even appreciate how beautiful your army is )

the only thing that "fails" here is that not everyone is on board.

40k is a badly designed mess of a game that requires sortsmanship, co-operation, and most importantly, communication to get the most out of it.

Obviously, your mates are acting like Judge Dredd and laying down the law, rather than bringing you on board. then they have a go at you because you're not happy with the skewed rules the come up with.

Solution is obvious to me: play them only under the condition that the house rules are mutually decided upon. Otherwise, simply do not play. Find another group that is less hostile.

The blunt truth.

Sounds like you need to man up and tell them to play by the proper rules.

Sure, I play against someone that knows exactly how i play, and what models i have (two assaulty armies. orks and close combat space wolves) and sits behind an ADL in a corner of the map, and out of line of sight of everything and kills all my stuff as it comes in. What i do is i just dont play with them.

Hi, guys.

Well it's nice to know that everyone pretty thinks this situation is boll**ks. I think next time I get offered a game I'll say, 'sure, but with changes.'

He'll, most of them play most of their games without me anyway,mi may just say, 'freak it, you're on your own.'

We've been friends for yeeears, but we get into proper arguments over this game, and it's not worth it.

Sounds like you just don't have friends that are good opponents. Either don't play against them anymore (and explain why if they ask), or start making your own house rules to benefit your army. For example, if your opponents insist on being able to take both armor and cover saves (knowing perfectly well that this gives big advantages to their army and almost nothing to IG) then you should insist that your lasguns are all STR D. If your opponents refuse, accuse them of "moaning".

Our group has one who will try to make the most efficient, powerful list he can, and is pretty terribly about rubbing your face in any victory he gets. Thankfully he's pretty terrible at list building so they usually don't work very well, and we don't have to put up with the boasting. He's basically our groups TFG.

Everyone else plays the game the same very casual way, doesn't take the game seriously and basically treats it as a way to have some fun for a few hours while we catch up on things. Preferably with beer.

That's the reverse of my situation - I get pitted against gunlines, and I get about 1 small terrain piece for every 2x2 block. Sucks.

Know that feel. I play the only 'assaulty' army in my group of mates and subsequently I tend to get shot off the table before I can really do anything in the vast majority of scenarios. I try to keep a chipper attitude but it can get frustrating at times.

Get yourself three manticores and three vendettas and make your own rule where flyers don't start in reserves and manticores always get three shots

Maybe they'll learn something about crappy house rules

I can sympathize with the OP, myself being the new guy to the group a lot of my interpretations of the rules get sluffed off because I didn't play 5th edition.

It seems to me however that one should really just play the game a few times the way it's written before making crazy house rules.

However the OP should be warned, the game does need a major rules overhaul. Just try posting in the YMDC forum, it will instantly degenerate into TLoS slapfighting.

If you can't come to grips with your local group maybe it's time to find a different group. Or try just enjoying the hobby aspect of 40k for awhile.

I myself would refuse to play with all those extra rules. Taking multiple saves on a wound is ridiculous and there is a reason why rules that legally give you this bonus (FnP comes to mind) were nerfed to be weaker. As for the cover, well... you could always try using the BRB method of setting up a table. That usually yields a good mix of terrain types between games.

Another thing to try is Kill Team, but don't let your friends feth with those rules too! Usually the way Kill Team works having a ton of cover is pretty advantageous to everyone.

Just don't let other people ruin your fun. Keep your head up and find new friends if that's what it takes.

 tybg wrote:
Get yourself three manticores and three vendettas and make your own rule where flyers don't start in reserves and manticores always get three shots

Maybe they'll learn something about crappy house rules

This

Turn 1 will be a massacre!

I don't mind certain house rules if my entire group is okay with them (most of ours are more for simplicities sake.) if you don't want to play by house rules id just say that honestly. Who cares if the group calls it moaning. If you can't win games then why play? Not saying only play to win but where's the fun im walking into a game you know you'll lose?

Wow, this thread makes me even more thankful for my group. No TFG, no silly houserules - just basic ones like ignoring mysterious objectives/terrain and nightfight, and generally rerolling if we get the awkward diagonal deployment. We try to play by the book as much as we can otherwise (we're all learning) there's pretty much no spam/internet lists, and rules disputes usually go straight to a roll-off so the game can keep moving.

My 40k buddies play by the book and I love it. I never really cared for house rules since I am firm in the belief that they usually are made to disadvantage an army or playstyle the rulemaker doesn't like.

 Selym wrote:

 tybg wrote:
Get yourself three manticores and three vendettas and make your own rule where flyers don't start in reserves and manticores always get three shots

Maybe they'll learn something about crappy house rules

This

Turn 1 will be a massacre!

I'm thinking the 'Four Baneblades in a Troop Choice' House Rule might come into play, too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks for the replies, guys. It's a gak situation, but I'll sort it out I'm sure. I'll just tell the guys that, and if they don't like it, well , I'll just play with you guys. They play more games without me than with me, anyway.

I know what you mean. Playing a lot of friendlies myself, the feature of friendship can be a burden just as much as a gift. We used to play very 'freely' with mostly house rules, and it lead to the sort of situations you describe, so here's a few things we do fromg ame to game to keep it fair.

1) 40k rulebook - starting a game. There is a section of the book that helps players set up their board/terrain and starting areas all based on RNG. This means EVERY player is subject to a random battlefield that can never be guarenteed to work in your favour. Sure this means you could screw yourself with terrain, but it also means they can.

2) Territory. Sometimes, we set up our board based on dividing the board between players at our own leisure. From here, we either place our own terrain in our own area, or place the opponents for them. This means we either have no say over each others side of the board or no say on our own. Again, this RNG makes the game much more unpredictable and should stop your friends being able to cheese a board to their advantage over you.

3) House rules - stop or get your own. Either don't allow house rules for every 3rd game or something, or allow each player to make 1 single house rule each. If your eldar mate decides to make a house rule about having no penalties for their guys moving through terrain for example, give yourself a house rule that lets your guardsmen the same rule. Or better, give them a better rule and say they're moaning for disagreeing with it. Compliance works both ways, if your rule isn't allowed without their permission, theirs can't be without yours.

4) This one is my personal favourite - a random army in the middle. Either controlled by another player or just through some simply written rules like "Auto assault a unit when within 6"", ahve stray clans of armies scattered on your board. I dnno, 10 boyz and a nob holding an objective that you both need. It means your opponent has more to consider than just "How do I face-feth a guardsman?" He now ahs to consider how to deal witht he orkz in-between you, how to take the points with minimal losses and how to decide who to attack.

Hope this was of some help, they made friendly games much more fun for me

Well your friends aren't even playing 40k...... armour saves + cover saves = everything has FnP (even if wep str is double their toughness.....). Andddd then we have charging at nothing? So basically they can move, run and then run 2d6? You are better off just having their entire assault army start 2" away from your deployment zone - at least that way if you go first, you can shoot things before they maul you.

Tell your friends that they are ridiculous.

I can't say I have that issue, the worst I have ever had is going to play a match and seeing my buddy bought some new terrain and already plopped it down in his favor. Nothing serious though.

It sounds like your friends are dicks. It also sound like you should run a nurgle daemon army and make sure there is some area terrain. (nurgle daemons get +2 to cover saves, so a forest gives them a +3 cover, and ruins makes it +2)

I agree with most of what everyone else is saying.

A: Find yourself some different people to play with

B: Try to be reasonable, and try to explain that their house rules, that might work well when they are playing against each other, put you at a serious disadvantage (( which your already at a disadvantage as your guard against Tau/Eldar ))

That's the problem with being limited to just a small group of people who want to do things their way. Reminds me of when my friends and I just got into Magic. Due to being young and new to the rules, we got a bit of it wrong, and the group meta grew up around playing it that altered way.

One of those things was thinking that spells like Lightning Bolt stuck around turn after turn, instead of being cast, doing their damage, and then being discarded, so Red became the king color as the whole point of the game turned into who could get the most damage spells into play. Even after we figured out what we were doing wrong, one friend refused to play if we didn't play it that way, because that was the only 'fun' way.

 Portugal Jones wrote:
That's the problem with being limited to just a small group of people who want to do things their way. Reminds me of when my friends and I just got into Magic. Due to being young and new to the rules, we got a bit of it wrong, and the group meta grew up around playing it that altered way.

Oh god, I remember doing that with Yu-Gi-Oh cards; we played as shown in the original series of the Tv show, and never sacrificed things except for god cards

Had tons of fun though, the games got rediculous quickly with matchups like Triple Blue Eyes vs Obelisk the Tormentor, about five draws into the game

They don't allow charging? Seriously?

 3orangewhips wrote:
They don't allow charging? Seriously?

No, the complete opposite - his friends are allowed to charge even without a target so that they get to move 2D6 during the assault phase. So jump infantry could: move 12, run 6, and then move again 2D6..... which is stupid.

I play with a guy who's been playing for eleven years and still cannot grasp rules that aren't 4th Edition, he either doesn't know a rule or knows half of it and challenges me every single time I tell him what a rule does.

I cannot field a psyker without a "Deny the with is B*******" speech, he checks the rule every single game before decrying it as unfluffy and heavily suggesting we houserule it out, which is in his favour as he makes extensive use of psykers himself.

He checks my codex every time I use a special rule, in one case he got very defensive and stopped our game so he could sit and read my Codex for fifteen minutes because I told him Marks of Chaos don't grant fearless.

So yeah, you're not the only one with people who take the spirit out of it. Like everyone says, just tell them and they stop.

Why exactly do you keep playing with this guy?